MM or MC cartridge for Mm input on Preamp

0.5 mV is no problem for the Steelhead even if your linestage adds zero gain to the phono signal. You previously suggested your cartridge puts out .01 mV, which I took to be a typo since there are no cartridges I know about that have such a tiny output.

i can not find the gain in my integrated amp manual which is Line magnetic LM845 premimum. The cart is Sumiko Palo Santos 0.5mv.

If you own a v2.0 Steelhead, which hasn’t changed in at least a decade, you should have its remote volume control, which of course is only relevant if you use the Steelhead as a full function preamplifier. Since you use it as a phono stage, the Manley remote is irrelevant of course. Any way you probably need the extra gain afforded by your linestage, if you’re using such a low output cartridge, which you haven’t identified so far.

Lewm,

I dont have a remote on my steelhead. i feel that its line stage is not my taste so that is the reason why i connect it to another pre and volume remote control is big of the deal for me.

By any chance, have you ever had or experienced Audiocraft AC3300 tone arm?

Presumably the linestage section of your integrated adds gain to the max of 65 db gain you can get from the Steelhead. Incidentally don’t you have a remote for volume with your steelhead? Mine does. But it doesn’t control input, etc.

@Lewm, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I use steelhead as phono function only since it does not have a remote. With that being  said, steelhead is connected to a integrated amp. 

I am laughing at myself a bit for not realizing that you must have meant 0.1 mV. There are no cartridges I know of that have an output of only .01 mV. My orto phon MC 2000 is one of the lowest output moving coil cartridges ever made, and it puts out .05 mV.

What cartridge are you using that only puts out .01 mV? There are not too many where the output is that low. Also a very important factor is how are you using the Steelhead? If you use it add as a phono stage with an outboard line stage, then you add the gain afforded by the linestage to your total gain. The steelhead can also be used as a full function Preamplifier, but when you use it that way its own internal linestage does not add gain to the signal. So if you are using the 65 DB setting for a very low output cartridge, that is all you are going to get , and the output voltage from the linestage section has to be sufficient to drive your amplifier. 65 DB of gain would be very marginal indeed for a .01 mV cartridge. It would be in a comfortable range for a 0.25 to 0.3 mV cartridge, in most cases. The gain requirement is fairly dependent on the input and output impedances of the devices you are linking together, the sensitivity of the amplifier for full output, and finally the sensitivity of the speakers themselves. So each of us might have a different impression of how much gain is needed for a particular cartridge, because of differences in the downstream equipment, Particularly if you are using an outboard linestage that may add 10 DB to as much as 20 DB additional gain to the signal coming from the steelhead.

Thank you all for the inputs, i will try and find out. I am going to set up another tonearm.

@lewm Yep, gotcha on the gain. My point, which I didn't explain very well, is that despite both inputs having sufficient gain to run a 0.1mv, the MM input with a 0.1mv sounds a bit noisier than the MC. Given that the MM input generally sounds better, it's worth seeking out a cartridge with sufficient output, perhaps .25 or greater, to take advantage of the MM input on the Steelhead.

Actually, using the MM on the Steelhead is pretty new to me so I'm still discovering the best way to set things up. I'd always run into the MC with the various cartridges I've owned, from 0.1 through 0.4mv. 

Houston, Just look at the selector switch.  In the MM mode you can select any of many possible load resistances, from 47K on down.  Since my own unit is not in front of me, I cannot recall the lower limit available.  For fun, you might start at 47K and go down from there in increments to find what for you would be a sweet spot.  There is no "wrong" choice, except as a rule of thumb you'd like to stay at or above a load R value that is about 10X the internal R of your particular LOMC.

Thank you all for the info. @lewm have LOMC plugged in MM input, we can test trial/error on the resistance set up variable up to 47k or we have to set it at 47k.

@houstonreef You didn't mention your tonearm, which is a nice tidbit of info for cart recommendations. It's a great time to be cart shopping with so many excellent options!

​Two very good carts that are medium compliance and fit your stated preferences are the Aidas CU Durawood​​​, and the Tedeska Euterpe. Both made in Europe.

If intrigued I am happy to elaborate more on how they differ. Disclosure of interest - I am the importer of both of these wonderful brands. Happy hunting :)

Aidas

Euterpe

​​

Rooze, the point is that max gain via either MM or MC inputs on the Steelhead is the same. Only difference is the range of load resistance available in each case. Using MM you can load an LOMC at 47K, if you like. Using MC inputs, the max R is 400 ohms. I’m sure you know this, just wanted to clarify for the OP.

I find the MM input sounds better on the Steelhead in most instances. Anything at 0.25 or upwards and there’s plenty of gain. I’ve a 0.1 mv Audio Tekne that actually works on the MM input but there’s a little bit of noticeable background noise so I use a SUT.

But yes, I think the MM input sounds better and it’s worth looking for a cartridge with sufficient output to allow use on the MM.

Hana cartridges are a good match as are the Ortofon Cadenzas. I wasn’t thrilled with ZYX on the Steelhead, a bit lean sounding (Ultimate 100).

Sound Smith Zephyr is pretty good, the latest version. Plenty of flavors to choose from with the Steelhead as it’s very versatile and easy to use, with everything being on the front panel.

@car123 thanks for the response, and I am in search for a cartridge. Via this thread I am going for a MC.
Currently I have a Benz Ruby 3h and I like it overall and I have not had a chance to listen to Different carts on my system. My budget is under 4k (either new or used). My taste is midrange 1st, high 2nd , and bass last. Any recommendation is greatly appreciated. 

I have a steelhead and have always run my LOMC cartridges through the MM input.  I currently run a benz ebony lps MR.  I have always felt that the MM input sounds better.  

The “MM” input on the Steelhead essentially bypasses the autoformers used to achieve low input impedances typically used for LOMC cartridges. Those  low impedance autoformers are accessed via the two pairs of MC inputs. So if you want to load a LOMC cartridge at 47K ohms, you use the MM inputs set to 47K and set gain according to cartridge output. Don’t be confused by this, all the settings are labeled in writing on the front panel. Yes, it’s unconventional.

As @lewm stated above with the wide range of 50 to 65db on the Steelheads MM input you have the option of using a MM, HOMC, and many LOMC (possibly greater than 0.24mV output).  This flexibility is not present in many other phono preamps where the MM input is limited to anywhere from 38db to 48db (only MM or HOMC).  Review the other adjustments available for the MM labeled input (Loading for MC or Capacitance variation for MM) in the manual and compare to the requirements of a cartridge you are considering.  

A Denon 103R mc cartridge will work at 65db. Capacitance not an issue with mc cartridges. 

I do have owner manual. But at this time I don’t have much knowledge on phono. I try to get back on the hobby and focus on analog. 
I will go over the manual. As you mentioned above, I can put in a MC without any issue?  
Thanks. 

The MM input on the Steelhead can provide anywhere from 50 to 65db of gain, input to output. Input resistance and capacitance are adjustable on the front panel. So nearly any cartridge can be accommodated. Do you have an owner manual?