Dear Thuchan: No we don't have that german restaurant. Here in México we are more oriented to French-Italian-regional food than german one.
Of course I like beer and german beer but I ask for regional food-drink on your " region ".
I'm from a Mexico region-city name it: Oaxaca, this region is extremely " wealthy/rich " food one of tipical/regional food that's much appreciated by people other that the ones lives there and knowed very well. That region too is very well knowed because a tipic/regional drink name it: mezcal, that comes too from the " maguey " like the famous tequila but with different " touch ", as a fact the mezcal taste very different from the tequila.
Oaxaca is famous all over the country by its regional " cousine " ( more than 300 different regional cousine choices. ), mezcal and several tourist atractions like: arqueological places and lovely beachs.
Now that you are talking about wines I would like that when I was there we can " taste " a couple of bottles ( well we don't have to be limited to only 2 bottles. ) of Chateu Petrus, certainly not a german wine but certainly " the best " out there. Of course I know that Dertonarm think that there is not " the best ".
Nandric and all of you that could like to taste a very special red wine with french " high cousine " plate and that in the past already tasted Chateu Margaux or Chateu Laffite: you need to taste the Chateu Petrus, even if this will be the last " thing " you will do in your life.
If you like a great Food/plate then you can't " go " with out tasted the Petrus.
Thuchan, let me talk with Guillermo on this " tonearm taste " and comeback to you. Take in count that both will be there and with " vote " about your MSs.
Halcro, what Eckart has to win?, well IMHO Guillermo and I preccense at his place could be enough!!
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Daniel, How could I forget Otto von Bismarck? But I thought that he united you all some time ago. Because of you my sympathy is with the Northrhine-Westfalia of course
but when Bavarians praise themself with BMW cars they should mention the (more) important contributions from your
(ex) princedom. However even more important is the good
chance that you and Raul will at last reach consensus about something. Ie the menu and wine list. If I rememer well you are also familiar with Maxime.
Cheers, |
Okay T_Bone, I see I am dealing with connosieurs knowing what they are talking about. Of course your choice is better than Cakies & Weissbeer. This is definitely a better matching combination. So we will go for "Spätzle". Regarding combinations on which one of the turntables among my modest collection Raul will mount his new tonearm? Do i need some preparations? Pls let me know in advance.
As every year we will share the duties. Dertonearm will be responsible for the Spätzle, me for the Weissbeer, Raul for the tonearm and Halcro as well as T_Bone for the judgements. Is Nandric joining or will he not move to Bavaria???
Best & Fun Only - Thuchan |
Thuchan,
not "Kirschplätze", but "Kirschspätzle"... unless, of course, there is a restaurant called Kirschplätze which serves Kirschspätzle. |
Dear Nandric, not everything in Bavaria is actually made and designed by Bavarians .... Munich works so good because 260 000 people from Northrhine-Westfalia live there (I am one of them ...). And about the status of BMW ... well, there are a few other candidates too.
However - as far as I am concerned, we can carry on discussing the menu and wine list for a prospective Audiogon gourmet meeting at the bavarian banks of the Danube.
Cheers,
D. |
Dear all,
why are you not coming and listening to the best in Bavaria !!! maybe the very best...
at least next week at Munich High End Show :-)
... and maybe from Korea
best & fun only - Thuchan
P.S. I will make reservations and bookings for Kirschplätze with Weissbeer... |
Dear Halcro, I like the idea with the new tonearm. In any case I will serve as a silent assessor (i.e. "objective" "judge" ..;-) ...).
I wouldn't want to miss this for the world. Expecting a collision of different ideas.
Cheers,
D. |
Our Mexican connoisseur used to think in terms of Maxime
get cautious. Traveling all the way to Bavaria for some
beer and sauerkraut? But if he wants the best BMW there is
Thuchan can certainly help. He started his career there.
However from 'we in Bavaria produce the best car in the world '
one can hardly deduce 'everything in Bavariais the best'.
Regards, |
I'm thinking, if we can do this in summer, Weissbeer and a plate of Kirschspätzle for me. |
Dear Raul,
I must also be there to witness this listening session.......although it is not very fair.
Thuchan has everything to lose but nothing to gain?
Perhaps you need to bring the first production version of your new arm to 'forfeit' if you lose the bet? :^).........I quite like this Picasso face |
Dear Raul, we may also offer wine because it's usually a very sunny region along the steep Danube river banks. But regarding wine there are more famous regions along the Rhein/Main/Mosel area.
If you are not drinking beer and not eating pig knuckles you may miss the region's specialities. Do you have a Hofbräuhaus in Mexico city? if yes you may run a test before deciding going for this adventure. :-)
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan: What kind of " drink " other than beer have you to offer? I mean from that German region and : how about regional food?
You know, I need to evaluate first that I be there hearing your MS, according our deal.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear T_Bone, Dear Halcro - for each of you one Weissbeer is waiting over here...
Hey Henry you speak Bavarian language? This is why you understand Bavarian Voice I suppose...
Of course we know Bad Woerishofen. I live near another Bad... at the banks of the Danube river where it`s waters run into a medieval city still completely in good order and recently being promoted to UNESCO world heritage...
I am younger...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dead Halcro, i live 30 minutes East of Bad woerishofen. They have a nice Public SPA now ......
Cheers,
D. |
Well I seem to have it over all of you as I was actually born in Bavaria......Bad Woerishofen to be exact.
Do you know it Thuchan? |
I like Bavaria too. Nice weather in summer. Big fan of Constanzee.
I have always wanted to take a cruise down the Danube, but have always wanted
to do so on a small boat - not one of those 100-person river cruise boats.
Something like a British/French canal barge would be cool...
Weissbeer is great. And second only to Belgian beer... :^)
That's just my 'zwo' cents... |
Dear Halcro, Dear Nandric,
you are right we have a lot of regulations over here (in all parts of Germany) but a wonderful landscape in Bavaria, excellent Weissbeer and as I think the best beergardens along the Danube river. No crocodiles coming on land when the rivers are flooded. And the weather is friendly to Bavarias' inhabiants which have somehow a very funny language - sorry I was not born here too.
You will also like the traditional music if you are living here for a while :-)
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Halcro, I hope that I am a diligent student of the
Aussie kind of humour. I even cosider emigration to Australia. I live next to the Germans, you know. In Bavaria
btw even water-skiing is not allowed. So our Lew also lost any interest for this country.
Regards, |
Dear Nandric,
I think Raul is too occupied on the western front to launch any forays into Bavaria? :-) |
My goodness, the German and the Mexican share the same
kind of 'humour'. To be honest I prefer when thy fight.
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan: I love you: you made that today I really laughed ( in good shape ) with that " Mexican blood " post.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
No Nandric, the twin brother of Shaun Connery is me. I know it. and it says that Dertonarm has some Mexican blood running in his sensitve vains...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Daniel, Nice for you but I am more interested in the looks of your Swedish beauty.
BTW I am a twin brother of Shon Conery.
Cheers, |
Dear Nandric, as far as looks go, I am a mixture of George Glooney and Pierce Brosnan ... ;-) ....
Cheers,
d. |
Dear Halcro, I mentioned Picasso in the context of your
arm pod implying that it looks as an object of art.
But some of us, uh, the foreigners, are already 'wrestling'
with the English grammar and phrasing so even the so called
'plain' or 'ordinary English' is difficult enough for us.
But your methaphoric 'picture' may be a 'bridge to far' for
the mentioned 'us'. So I assume that you are addressing primary the native English speakers (grin)?
We all profit from the rich experience and knowledge of both Dertonarm and Raul. But we don't like when thy fight.
There is olso this 'natural' inclination to choose sides which make the situation even worst. There is also not much
to learn from 'ád hominem' arguments as Lew put it.
But there is also differece between the two reg. temper.
The German never use(d)s offending expressions but prefer
sarcastic way of expressing himself.
I alas never meet Dertonarm in person but I am somehow convinced that he does not look like a windmill nor as a
red rag. However for a 'Spaniard' this may be different.
Regards, |
What's with these Picasso faces all of a sudden? :^)
The eyes and mouth in 'full frontal' with the nose in 'elevation'?
Or is that the nose that has been flattened sideways by all the punches? :-)) |
Dear Lewm,
you are so right but I do no believe that we will see the day of a peace treaty between Dertonarm and Raul. I do remember that many threads were closed when the fun was gone. If we arrive at the good habit not bashing people and using more generalization this could mean a step forward. And please no repetitions and pressure habits anymore. It is so boring...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Nandric, Dear T_Bone
answering it was not my intention to adress you personally as my love baby... of course... :-) It's only a role play I was trying to show. people who tend to repetition do not find the relaxing mode, they are running like a record, in circles, with the difference that the needle goes forward, - they do not.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Lewm, yes, I know that the inner construction of the Ikeda doesn't qualify for the term "litz". I rather quoted the general phrase used for this type of inner wiring. Ikeda himself names it just "Pure silver wire".
Silver is not "better" by 6% versus copper of the same gauge and purity.
At least not in the sense of the word...;-)....
It's AES-rated conductivity for LF audio signal is 6% higher.
Thus the chance to preserve the faintest parts of signal-swing are better by 6%.
At least my "personal tests" did illustrate and verify this relation to me.
Ad hominem versus ad personam?
I guess it is rather de-escalating if I put my answers in a rather generalized form and do not answer direct to a person.
There will be very little argument at all in the future between R. and me.
Promised...;^) ....
Cheers,
D. |
DT, Until today I had not read your reply to my post. You write, "the silver litz in the Ikeda is not isolated from each other". If by this you mean to say that the individual strands in the wire are not insulated from one another, then the Ikeda is not Litz wire at all. The definition of a Litz wire demands that each tiny strand is insulated from the others and the strands are wound in a particular way. Anyway, that is a side issue. I am about to try out the Audio Note silver Litz wire (true Litz wire) in one of my tonearms, if I can get it through the bearing house, as you remark. If not, I may run it outside the arm tube. But meantime, I am also enamored of the C37 cryo-treated silver wire that I ordered to be installed in my Reed tonearm. Of course, I am comparing it to nothing, using only one cartridge so far, and my opinion is completely subjective.
I liked your post of Apr 29 regarding the subjectivity and inherent lack of "science" in the matter of comparing any two items in an audio chain. I totally agree. The devices we use are born from science and thrown out to us to pay for and use as we will and then to write about in these gaseous fora.
I don't argue with your statement that you think copper loses detail compared to silver, but this does not at all prove your conclusion that this is happening because silver is "6%" better as a conductor. You are taking two separate "facts" and positing a cause-effect relationship that does not fit the known science of conductors, IMO. (But if I am wrong, I would greatly appreciate a reference to the relevant scientific literature that proves me wrong. This issue IS amenable to a scientific approach.) Like Thuchan says, all for fun.
While Raul sometimes likes to take the role of gadfly, and I can see that you two are at odds on many subjects, I think your ripostes could be a bit more to the point and a bit less ad hominem. Raul could do the same, perhaps. Because, like Thuchan says, it's all for fun. |
Dear Thuchan, 'some German' is some kind of descriptive function entailing one variable. But I meant by 'some' D and not T . Besides my remark about Rauls repetion reg. D is the opposite of your generalization. I see no force in
this kind of repetion. So I thought that Raul can use his
spare time in a better way.
The remarks about 'love baby' are above my comprehension.
Even T_bone seem to have some 'comprehension' trouble with your text. Some German humour intended?
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan, T_bone, Nandric, ...amen ....;^) ... |
Thuchan,
You obviously don't mean that! Three Hail Marys for you I think.
:^) |
Dear Nandric,
repetition is the mother of all forces. Telling you the third time that you are not my love baby should discourage you pleading all the time you still want to become my love baby. This is a bit like kindergarden but we are sometimes acting & reacting in this way - with our beloved toys in the play box.
I always feel sorry when Audigoners are too much driven by a strong belief making all friends catholics meaningly trying to convince them that there is only one direction to go...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Raul, The pope answered some questions by some intrusive lady by stating: 'but my lady I am already Catholic.' We already know what you think about 'some'
German. I don't believe that your repetion is similar to
the Roman one: 'repetion is the mother of study'.
Besides I thought that your time must be a scarce 'good'.
Regards, |
Dear Dertonarm: What you posted means: that over the years all what you posted on Agon has no " value " ? are not " transferable to others at all?.
IMHO you are trying to diminish all the contributions that all the Agoner's already made it in Agon: of course save but you!
So and following your statements maybe is time to close Agon and other net forums. Thank's to this forum and his people in-here you are earning money and could be risky if Agon close: don't you think?
My experiences and other Agoner's experiences are that many of what we discuss in these forums are " transferable " and due to this true " transferable " meaning many of us already improved the quality performance level in our systems.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Thuchan, the problem in all these cable test is always the same.
It is the very same in all these audio tests.
Every test not performed by yourself is performed and verified with a different set of ears and a different brain as yours.
As such these "results" are what they are - nothing and void, if not done by yourself.
Unless you envy and want Raul's ears, experiences, taste ( can't imagine that - did you see that rug in his living room ?) and system (can't imagine that either ... knowing yours quite well ) - his "findings and results" through "strict process" may have a meaning to him and may even help him in his learning process and his set-up, but are not transferable to others at all.
Neither to you, nor Syntax nor me.
You know my taste and sonic ideas very well and I know yours.
We both do from direct 1st hand experience and thus both our "findings" can be put into perspective by the other.
Unless you visit the mexican Zarathustra and get a 1st hand experience there, his findings will remain smoke and dust to you.
That is his tragic dilemmata as well as that of other self-proclaimed Audio-Zarathustras.
There is no truth aside from what you like.
It all comes down to you and your taste (thank god!) - having to live with the taste and ideas of another is certainly not the way I would like to spent my days.
Cheers and fun !
D. |
Dear Daniel, I myself was not thinking in the context of
Rousseau's volonte generale but in the context of 'authority' versus 'truth'. You know that till Galileo
those were considered to be identical. So Aristoteles ruled
for more then 2000 years over Europe because of his authority. But this 'turn' is scientific one. Our ordinary
members need some quidance and advise and thy are those who attribute 'authority' to some other members. So despite the fact that,say, Raul never claimed any authority reg. carts ( he invited J. Carr to explain the issue) he is regarded to be one. The same is true about you in other domein and Halcro in some other domein,etc.
To me this is a sensible thing to do and think. What are
the alternatives? The reason is simmple: R,D or H know more about x then I so...
You may call this 'believing' or even 'religion' but that is how it works and I don't believe that this is wrong.
We the ordinary members are not stupid. We read , compare and think and then decide whom to trust. As you know of course Kant has also something to say about the 'practical reason'.
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan: I understand you. I'm not saying that the Ikeda ones are not good because they are what I'm saying is that over a " serious " tests on three different audio systems along other 19 cables/wires there are other cables that IMHO are " dead neutral " against the Ikeda.
Two of those audio systems are really accurate where the third ( tubes ) has some colorations. During the tests at the end all those cables I name it outperform the Ikeda in all three systems.
The tests were not at random but following an " strict " process that include ( between other things ): same groves between the same LPs tracks ( grooves that I know as my palm's hand. I even know from which side and how many and which kind of ticks/pops have those LP grooves. ), even SPL, no other system change but the tonearem wires, relaxed mood, time/day hours tests with the lower background place noises, same cartridge/tonearm set up overall process, etc, etc.
Of course at the end this is only my opinion but as always the important one is yours because you are the one that must live with those wires.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Raul,
maybe I am not very precisely listing all the words which are neccessary to describe the sound the Ikeda silver wire produces. It also depends on the units we are using - so it is always related to the instruments (audio reproduction machines, chain, combinations) used and the people behind them (we, you and me). I don't think we should believe that we are able to produce test results on a scientific bases between our systems.
When I say warm I mean not the typical cool sound "bad silver" may generate. Neutral in terms of cables is in my VHAFMMDO not a condition
I like to have. All these 2 Dollar cables sound to me very neutral - they don't sound but other people still believe it makes not a difference - okay.
Let them end up with neutral emotions - not me. Okay when you mean a cable should not alter the sound to the bad side than this is somehing different and I guess it is that what you mean.
Regarding tonearm inner cables I prefer a very precise, open and wide
expression - this is for me brilliance and I would never use a tonearm cable which is not able to transport these qualities. Hope you can get along with my remarks. |
Dear Nikola, at least "discussions" between R. and D. do contribute do fill the audio silly season which approaches soon ...;-) ...
You and me know well enough the principle of the volontè générale and how it was and is misinterpreted ever since it's birth.
Nothing about sound description is objective nor can it be.
In audio discussion with it's high egoism and individuality the abuse of personal preferences all too often leads into this kind of thinking.
Scientific approach ?
Certainly no one here really has a scientific approach to electrical components of the audio chain and particular not to their "sound quality".
This audio whole game is the contradiction per se of scientific approach.
You'll even get arguments here about simple geometry and force vectors.
Audio discussion is all about personal ideas, likes, dislikes, taste and individual matrix.
It is very much the same as discussing religious topics and believe.
Non-objective by nature.
Cheers,
D. |
Dear Lew, I am sorry but despite your statement that you
have no 'set opininon' some sets are always involved by
any comparations. There are even sets with just one member.
Ie there is no way out of sets. My post started with an specific question. What kind of influnce a peace of 40cm
wire between the coils (x m. of cupper wire) and phono cable (+/- 1m) can have? Your argument is about two materials reg. conductivity that according to you can be measured? But, headshell wire ignored, my 'case' is about
3 different kind of wire in series. Not to mention all the
solderings parts. Any idea how this serie can be measured with some conclusive outcome?
Regards, |
Dear Daniel, In our communication in the so called 'ordinary languge' many things are (pre) supposed
to be known. Some kind of economy of the language use.So
I already presupposed the 'fact' of the subjective approach in our hobby . One get usualy the advise to 'listen with his own ears'. A strange looking sentence
but the intendend meaning is to trust more your own hearing then those of others. So Raul as well as you should add 'according to me'. I know about the desire to put more in our statements than this 'damned' subjectivity
because of the inclination to 'objecify' our own opinion.
But all of us who know anything about scientific proof also
know that there is not a single scientific condition that is satisfied. Raul is obviously searching in a scientific way but there are no measurements to support his claims. Besides one can not have it both ways: subjective as well as objective. That is way there was no contradiction between you both. According to me that is. Such fights as between you both are, if I am well informed, also usual between even the particle physicist. I don't enjoy them but I am not suprised at all. Anyway you both are our high regarded members.
Regards, |
Dear Lewm, the silver litz in the Ikeda is not isolated from each other. The fact that here a small bundle of extremely thin wire is used is due to the requested flexibility. When possible - for instant in armwands like the MAX-armpipes or Exclusive/Pioneer - I used heavier gauge solid core silver.
But if the wire runs through the bearing flexibility is a key factor.
Pure silver features a 6%+ conductivity versus pure copper.
Given the same gauge, to me there is no race between the two and no competition.
I agree that silver can sound "subjective inferior to copper" in certain circumstances or audio chains. But that - IMHO - has nothing to do with copper being a better or equal quality conductor for audio signal, but with certain compensatory effects in that specific audio chain and - last not least - with individual taste.
In my experience copper does indeed loose the most subtle nuances compared to silver - same gauge - resulting in less harmonic details, less ambience air and less transparency.
But that is my opinion and my experience.
No dogma here.
Everyone happy with copper won't get any argument from me.
But for me personally copper is no alternative and I have eliminated it in my components and cables wherever possible and substituted it with silver ( not all Ikeda silver ..;-) ...).
In tonearm inner wiring we are dealing with the lowest signal current and voltage swing in the whole audio chain. Here silver is inevitable IMHO.
Cheers,
D. |
Dear DT, I really have no set opinion on wiring, except that I favor either pure copper OR pure silver (vs silver-plated copper or other combinations), and I favor very thin gauge solid core wire or a ribbon vs stranded wire. Litz is not "stranded" in this definition, since the strands of a Litz wire are insulated from one another. But the Litz configuration is still a matter of taste, IMO. In any case, you repeatedly have written here and elsewhere that because silver is a marginally better conductor than copper, copper will actually fail to transmit low level signals conveying inner details of the music, compared to silver, when one is using a cartridge with a very low output voltage. IMO, this hypothesis of yours is not correct, i.e., not supported by scientific facts. The difference in conductivity between the two materials would not result in the total loss of information when using a copper conductor compared to a silver one, that you suggest. I agree that silver and copper do sound different, but I don't think we know why. If I am wrong in this belief, please enlighten me. |
Dear Thuchan: +++++ " warmer and even more brilliant. " +++++
if you read my post I writed the word " neutral " as a main factor to analize which and how different wires performs and are " seated ".
Warmer and brilliant are not IMHO " neutral " but colored ones and this is not what I looking for.
I respect your priorities that can't be exactly similar to mines.
Anyway, what I posted is my opinion after that deepest tonearm wire tests.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear T-bone: Sorry, here it is:
www.1877phono.com/tonearm_wire.html
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Nandric, on point! "the best" in audio related terms always has the very same meaning.
It translates to "the best I have heard with my individual matrix of preferences, likes, dislikes and moods". Sometimes it too means "sounded best with my set-up", "the best I can afford" or "the best my buddy told me".
Always my pleasure,
D. |
Dear Raul,
I made an comparison between the Audio Note Silver litz and the Ikeda Silver in my SAEC WE 8000 by accident. The arm was rewired with Audio Note Silver wire and sounded very good. Nevertheless I had a contact problem with the DIN connector and being in repair the arm was completly rewired with Ikeda Silver litz. Raul you may not believe me - and maybe you did have another Ikeda litz at the time - but the Ikeda is still an improvement, warmer and even more brilliant.
best & fun only. - Thuchan |
'The best wire'. 'The best' is a way of speaking but imply or assume implicit the quantifier 'all'. Think of 'set-theoretic' paradoxes. Well the correct reading would be possible if the outhor adds 'from those inspected' or use
a numerical quantifier like Raul ( 20 ). We may assume that
Dertonarm inspected 'some wire' and concluded that Ikeda
is the best of them. Both of our dramitis personae can impossible claim to have inspected 'all wire' in the world.
So , it may look strange , but there is no contradiction here. Ie if the premises are not clear the deduction can
impossible be more clear. We already have had discussion
about 'the best cart' and 'the best tonearm'. In this way
of speaking everybody is entiteld to his own 'best'.
Regards, |
