MHDT Orchid or Lampizator Amber 3?

Maybe this would work!

https://www.amazon.com/Shuguang-Treasure-CV181-Z-Replace-CV181-T/dp/B01EA3ME9W/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Shuguang+Treasure+Cv181-z+Vacuum+Tube&qid=1581270385&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-1

Good point.

Where did you source your  Shuguang CV-181-Z? It appears only the 181-T variant is available in the US.....other than getting direct from China on Ebay. It appears at least some prefer the Z vs T model tube.

Decent machine shop could do it, only needs it if using 6SN7 or CV-181.

rx8man

My Mullard 6DJ8 variant is still on the way to try out in my grannyring modded Orchid, but your experience with the   CV-181-Z is certainly intriguing. I can't imagine though leaving the dac uncovered, and I have no idea as to how I would go about enlarging the hole for the larger tube. Have you given any thought as to how you would  do that, and make a neat job of it? Would be nice if MHDT labs offered a lid with a larger tube opening, but I don't know if they would go for that.

I have a couple of Sophia Electric 6SN7 tubes from my LS100. Has anyone asked Jiun about using those in the Orchid? 

Used the Shuguang CV181 in my Modwright LS100 preamp, found it very good sounding. If you want a suggestion for another very good sounding (TME) new production tube you might try the  Sophia Electric 6SN7; I use that it the LS100 now. 

That's pretty high praise for the Shuguang tube.

Bill what other upgrades/tweaks did you make to the Amber 3?

The upgraded Orchid plays on a higher level for sure.  Add the SR Orange fuse and tube rolling and the Orchid really steps up several big notches! 

I like my Amber 3, but needed to add better tubes, SR fuse and some other upgrades/tweaks to get her to sing like she does now.   

Gear and systems can can be tweaked, modified and made to perform at much higher levels without the need to buy new pieces.  So many of us have gear that can be taken to the next level with tweaks and well chosen part upgrades if one is a skilled DIYer or has done by one. 

I agree the stock Orchid a good DAC but in my system I sill much preferred the older LamizatOr Amber (not Amber 3), which I currently have in my system. To my ears, some of the comparisons made between the Amber 3 and the modded Orchid were spot on with my experience of the stock Orchid and the Amber; Orchid was more easy listening and more forgiving of the recording, generally more even handed, whereas the Amber is a bit more dynamic and more resolving on good recordings. The Amber also provides more options for tube rolling between the three tubes; rectifier, the buffer, and the output tubes. I think in both cases the components upstream and downstream of the DAC make a big difference in the ultimate outcome.  

I just ordered my Orchid this morning.
Says 2 to 3 weeks delivery from Linear Tube Audio.
Plan to run it for a while in stock form to get an idea of it's Sonic signature and then off to Bill it will go to be modded.

I think that all this attention being paid in this (very worthwhile) discussion might be drawing attention away from the fact that the stock Orchid is really super satisfying.  You don't have to modify it at all to get superb,  non-fatiguing music. Ok,  MHDT themselves suggest rolling the tube to the WE396 tube and others on their recommended tube list.  And doing that goes a long way towards the character being described via these modifications. But the stock unit is really,  really good. 

"The 6SN7 is in and playing, 10 minutes ago. Soundstage is unleashed, filled-out, big, warm, detailed, easeful, relaxed, with enormous bass and dynamics."

This begs the question why the stock Orchid does not use this tube. Seems like a very obvious choice given this feedback.

Rx8....
How would you compare the level of improvement with the 6SN7 substitution versus the stock Orchid and the modified version ( new caps, resistors,etc.)...In other words if one just substituted the 6SN7 in a stock ORCHID, would the level of improvement be similar to a modified ORCHID ( which included a non 6SN7 tube )

Search Abbas Audio on Ebay. Their DAC chassis is interesting. It's very narrow to allow space for another component on the same rack shelf. I really like that. I just don't like the weird 1uf oil caps at the output. 

Ha, beaten to it.
They do have some of their products on eBay too.

Abbasaudio.com.

All one word.

http://www.abbasaudio.com/dac-3.0-abbasaudio.html?language=en

I came up dry too, one thing I found was this image search: 
https://www.google.com/search?q=abbas+audio+dac&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKE...

I don’t want to derail this thread, but for those who are considering an Orchid you might want to do some internet searching for the TDA 1541A based DAC from Abbas Audio. Hand made in Ukraine and very competitively priced. Very nerdy parts selection.

I love my Orchid but have been really curious about the Abbas Audio pieces...

Hey Gentlemen,

Wanted to share that either on a standard Orchid or modified one, with grannyring's specs, that placing it on Krolo Design Enhansers (foot cone units that cost $250 for a set of three) make significant and easy to hear improvements of the Orchid's performance. More transparency, therefore  easier to hear micro-details, more air around the players and more precise location and layering in the sound-stage, and tighter/accurate bass.  On these devices the Orchid loses none of its musicality and charm, but improves in the above stated areas.

The auditioning of using the Krolo Design devices was done in three different systems, both solid state and tubed based, with the same wonderful results.  Therefore, the positive changes do not seem to be system dependent.  Highly recommend you Orchid owners consider this rather inexpensive upgrade for your DAC.  

I did a Six Moons website review on these cone units, if you want more information on them.

@grannyring Are you planning on modifying the Amber 3? I wonder how much it can improve with the ODAM. 

Would love to try all three DAC Ghasley but realistically.... Not likely. Lol.

After talking with Bill I am just about decided on buying a Orchid and having him mod it right away.

Then it will be tube rolling time.

It's still a lot less dollars even with mods than the Amber 3 or a fully tricked out Tubadour.

I posted on this thread a while ago about installing a 6DJ8 in my Orchid via the 5670/6DJ8 adapter. I think in my post I mentioned. Something along the lines of the sound changing from that of a Baldwin Piano to that of a big Steinway. Well, I now have a Western Electric tube and the Tesla tube that are both on the MHDT Labs recommended Tier 1 tube rolling list. They all sounded good, and they all sound slightly different. 

Nice!The same sort of thing happens when I put ECC88s in my Tubadour.Really expands the sound.I'd love to find out if 6SN7s would work but it's too tight and they wouldn't fit dammit!

Rx8....

Which 6SN7.... the CV - 181Z?

@cal3713 I appreciate the recommendation. @uberwaltz happy to help you audition an Amber in your home, in your system.

- Colin
https://gestalt.audio

@uberwaltz Don't forget that you can get reasonable home demo periods with both the AM and Lampizator (through Colin @ Gestault Audio).  Obviously can't do the same with the modded Orchid, but at least you can have two duke it out in your own system...

I have a customer’s Orchid here with some 30 hours on it post surgery. It also has the SR Orange fuse. I have been comparing it to my Amber 3 with SR Orange fuse and Mullard 12au7. I can easily live with both. Don’t miss the other when one is playing.

The Orchid is warmer. The Amber slightly more open and resolving. The Orchid sounds right on more recordings while the Amber is more fussy with its slightly better resolution sometimes hurting enjoyment of lesser quality recordings.

The Amber = impressive sonic feats of strength with good to great recordings.

The upgraded Orchid = smile and enjoyment of most recordings without Aphile anxiety.

The tube rolling upgrade options would take the Orchid up another level making it an undeniable top contender. The resolution and soundstage gap may be closed with tube socket and tube varieties mentioned above.

The Orchid is still some $1000 less than the Amber with all upgrades.

I am happy with my decision to keep the Amber 3.  I have many DSD recordings and really enjoy the Amber’s sound and nuance. DSD recordings do sound better than non-DSD in my system.   

Uberwaltz, I agree it is difficult to know how to proceed, but in a sense, it is a nice problem to have.   One really could buy all three, either sequentially or concurrently, because all have their advocates, and therefore the resale market should be good.

Get all three! LOL. Seriously, these are all terrific dacs. Peace to all.

I agree this is a great thread with lots of fantastic and pertinent information.

The only trouble I am having right now is this......

Trying to decided between a Orchid and Bills mods, an Amber 3 or an Audio Mirror Tubadour.

Very, very tough choice!

Another Grannyring fan here.
I love how this thread is developing.  Gonna wait awhile longer and may give tube rolling a go.  I'm using the WE tube now.
- Bob
PS - Bill, bbq'd a pastrami yesterday.  Off the charts!

Bill
Email sent in regards to your Orchid mod.
😁😁

The Shuguang version is also said to be very good.  Great thread guys. 

Thanks Rx8........

CV-181Z vs. 6SN7: https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html

Musicman, 2nd one from bottom, specific to convert to 5670 / 396A socket.

Rx8man
I see another adapter on their page. It’s the 4th from bottom. So are you sure the second from the bottom is the one I need. 
Thanks 

Grannyring......
Agree with your thoughts on the CV- 181(6SN7) but I am using the Shuguang version and have not had any issues with premature failures.....yet....🙂. Not sure how they differ/sound versus Psvane

By the way do you mind posting again the brand of resistors and caps and values, that you use to mod the ORCHID.
Thanks...

2nd from bottom:
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

Same place on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217-6SN7-TO-5670-396A-TUBE-SOCKET-ADAPTER-OUTSTANDING-BUILD-QUALITY/...

I have both CV-181Z and 6SN7, but I will run *6SN7* FIRST, to be sure things are smooth and steady.

Hole needs to be enlarged like I mentioned (7 posts above) for 6SN7 or run topless till you decide.
The hole would need to be larger yet for CV-181 obviously, if I do that, I’m machining it properly.

The E88CC, 6922, 6DJ8 family will poke through the stock size hole about a half inch or so above plate.

Can someone send me a link to the adapter I would need to roll a cV 181 (6 SN7) for the ORCHID. Also with this adapter/riser in place do you still need to enlarge the thru hole of the top plate?