@lewm The MC cartridges I have do not have any problem tracking. They range from medium to low compliance. The lower compliance cartridge uses the highest VTF, but it also has the largest contact patch. Higher compliance cartridges track at lower VTFs, but it seems they are all capable of handling 80um @ 315 Hz.
MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?
Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question : " true " answer.
Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.
Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.
In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread I remember that he was truly emphatic posting that my MM conclusion was not true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.
Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.
I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.
I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind ) MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.
So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.
I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.
We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges as an " isolated " audio item and that any of our opinions when be posible stay in the premise: " everything the same ".
My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.
So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.
Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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Dear @mahler123 and friends : " One can speak of general traits of differing technologies, but ultimately a high degree of musical fidelity can be obtained with all of them. "
Tha’s my main conclusion that I achieved through all my first hand experiences in the MUSIC/audio world.
Exist and existed several MM/LOMC/HOMC/MI/IM/MF/ELectrostatic/ and the like that are superb one against the other with no real winner no matter what.
As many of you I made and still make several cartridge compARISONS/EVALUATIONS/TESTS using over 30 different tonearms, over 10 different TTs, over 10 different phono stages, over 15 different SUTs, heavy different cartridge output levels/compliances/stylus shapes/cantilever materias and in several room/system and mainly in my room/system. In all cases/situations using almost the same test whole proccess using almost the same LP tracks at almost the same SPLs. So I trust in my unbiased conclusions. One important issue is that my audio system noise floor is inaudible other that by a bat. You can swith on system link one by one or switch off and you can’t detect any noise even with your ear at 5cm. of my 95db efficiency speakers. Each kind of design cartridge has its own noise floor and I agree with @mijostyn that when we have a HO cartridge we totally now is HO and not a LOMC design no matter what and this is a heavy advantage between a HO cartridges against the LOMC ones but in the other side the LOMC cartridge has the great advantage that the cartridge signal pass internally to very short wires against the HO that in that specific regards makes a little higher signal degradation that the LOMC but nothig comes by free because that LOMC advantage has a price to pay for: it needs phonolinepreamps with additional gain stages that degrades too the cartridge signal where in the HO cartridges that degradation is lower. So, it’s a figth between those cartridge specific characteristics that again has no inherent winner. LOMC cartridges arenon sensible to load impedance/capacitance and this fact is an advantage when the MM and MI are sensible to load impedance and capacitance.Nothing is perfect but electrostatic designs are not sensitive at allin those characteristics. LOMC cartridges has other advantage when his cantilever/stylus is not changeable like the MM/MI/IM;MF;elctrostatic but in the old times and today these cartridge type of designs (not all only a few of them ) took assolution and B&O was the first design with fixed cantilever/stylus ( today only Grado and SS that came from B&O desin cartridges.) other manufacturers made different as Technics in his EPC 100C MK4 and Audio Technica in their models AT 24 and AT 25 but Signet too ( member of AT group. ) with the TKS9/10 where the stylus cantilever/is ounted in a tiny metal frame srewed to the bottom cartridge body. This fixed cantilever/stylus is way important because avoid additional developed distortions that I detected with the Stanton/Pickering cartridge and where both been exactly the same cartridge design/motor Pickering came with a tigther assemble to the cartridge than the Stanton one and you know what: you can interchange one for the other cantilever/stylus in the HO MM designs as a fact is the way how I listen to the Stanton. There is an Agoner that almost hates the HOMC cartridges and my take is that he had not the opportunity to listen it in a first/top phonolinepreamp and the HOMC specific models that perfortma beautyful through a MM stage.We need a topMM stage to do it and for the MM cartridges and even the MI/MF/IM and the like that phono stage needs at least the we can load the cartridge at 100k not 47k and even 200k is better along the need it capacitance according each cartridge. Well if some of us do not like the HOMC cartridges mainly reasons are the ones explained here but what about MC cartridges designs that are designed with user remplacable cantilever/stylus,ether LO/HO? Well I still own 3 of those designs. One from Empire, one from Sony and the best ones in the world by Satin. Till you listen the Sony or Satin ( different models in between. ) HO changeable cantilever/stylus in the rigth MM phono stage you just can’t know whay you losted in the MUSIC enjoyment. The Sony was made by Satin and is a truly dificult cartridge to mates to any tonearm due that its weigth 18grs. with over 30 cu and 4.0mv output but it’s an excellent performer, its bass range is something you can live only true live MUSIC seated at near field position:period.
That I remember and he did it by coincidence the only Agonerbs that I know that already listened to a Satin HO replaceable stylus/cantilever are @sbank and @dgarretson due that @sbank bougth from me a Satin ( that I still own and is formidable. ) that when he received and aftera few hours started to distort when @dgarretson by coicidence was at his place: Spencer knows about and yes I changed for a different cartridge that fortunatelly likes himand the Satin came back to me..
Btw, @dogberry touched the word " neurologist " and this link will explain all about that when listening MUSIC at home or in alive even or when we are doing comparisons:
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@pryso Your below statements are ones that I identify with and can not be in more agreement, that broadening ones listening in the homes of others with a real enthusiasm and adeptness for thing audio is a substantial foundation for finding ones place in how a Audio System can sound. "I had opportunities to hear many different audio systems in a variety of home settings. " "I've gone through, hearing a multitude of different systems is an education for our ears." |
Collect em all and win. Flavorizers aka pleasure seeking has a big place w studio music where the intention is not accuracy and in anything coming out of a DAW. But flavorizing does not obviate the need for some from seeking better reproduction of sound. Some of us on the consuming end go to great lengths to make reference recordings… and certainly a few… precious few manufacturers do… i fondly remember the magical, inexpensive yet in some systems intoxicating lowly $ HOMC Audioquest AQ-404…. Fun |
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