Manufacturers pushing their products and agenda in the forums.
In the deep, dark, past manufacturers participated in the Audiogon forums with a general sense of decorum and a sensitivity to other products that they did not manufacture themselves and which were, from a design standpoint, philosophically opposed to their views.
What has happened? Manufacturers now post into the forums dogmatically espousing their myopic view of the hobby, shamelessly pimping their own products and view of the audio world and, even more disturbingly, running down opposing brands.
IMHO, it may be time to throw the baby out with the bath water and ban manufacturers, distributors, retailers and importers. If they can’t get their act together they should take it on the road.
How about absolutely no changes are made and we just informally refer to regular forums here as "Danger Zones" just because it sounds more exciting and cool. Do you have what it takes to enter the Danger Zone? Don't even think of entering if you're a whining little crybaby blue-green lizard like creature from the planet Virid (sorry viridian) or any other creature from one of those other planets in the infamous Whining Reptilian Belt. Entrance requirements are ice in your veins, balls of steel ( elizabeth, you don't qualify literally but you do figuratively.), the ability to think for yourself and the ability to distinguish those manufacturers/retailers providing useful information and opinions based on their vast knowledge and years of experience from those manufacturers/retailers just engaged in unwanted 'shilliness' or salesmanship. Caveat Emptor is the motto in the Danger Zone.
Not to long ago someone on here started talking about a product that was unlike any other product. He / she owned the product, stating it was better than everything else. How unbelievable this product was, talking about the technology, the whole nine yards. After a few weeks, with a little investigation, it turned out, he / she was " the US dealer " for the product. Did not come clean. This, I did not like, and called him / her on it. This, to me, was a shill. I have no problem with dealers or manufacturers here, but it would be nice if they were honest about who they are, and I find almost all of them are up front people.
Agreed. I think all manufacturers, retailers and dealers should identify themselves as such and each of us can take that into consideration when reading their posts. Generally, I find these individuals are very valuable sources of information, suggestions and opinions.
This reminds me a little of the move " invasion of the body snatchers". When they see their victim the project that shrill tone....we will all soon be victims....
full disclosure.....wel not as full as it could be....I was a dealer...and for that I am so sorry.....as I drive off in the sunset in my Ferrari to my new million dollar mansion...to be with my new wife who is 30 years younger then I am......well maybe 35 years younger....I bid you adieu..
It can be galling if a thread is invaded by manufacturers or salespeople practicing gauche levels of self promotion under the guise of "helping" or offering their valuable experience. (And some do have valuable experience to add).
But fortunately I’ve found quite a number of manufacturers to be quite restrained and actually sharing what seems to be sound, valuable information. Roger Modjeski’s thread is perhaps a highwater example.
My instincts do not tend towards censorship. I never, ever ask a mod to delete intemperate posts even if they are aimed my way, and I prefer to see as many voices as possible having a say. A manufacturer’s or salesperson’s reputation is his/her own to guard, and it’s fine by me if some handle the responsibility of posting well, while others shoot themselves in the foot. I’ve learned which posts to skip reading so it doesn’t slow me down too much. I take the good with the bad and there's some great stuff to be had here and there.
My take is that this entire thread is a bit ridiculous and has been going on far longer than the topic merits. I believe the OP, viridian, likely intention was just to stir the pot since I doubt anyone would have such delicate sensibilities, and such a lack of confidence in their own abilities to discern between shilling and informing, that they'd plead for some sort of censorship and protection.
What are you so worried about, viridian? What's the worst thing that could happen? My suggestion is you either get a backbone or rent one, call your mommy, get some counseling or buy a pacifier.
I agree generally with the OP, but feel that any banning would need to be done on a case by case basis. At this point, I know of just one poster/retailer here who blatantly hawks the products he sells on various threads, and trashes those he doesn’t sell; all of it under the guise of providing useful, albeit unsolicited information. Then, he gets into arguments with other members when he is called out for it and criticized publicly.
I'm just interested about what motivated you to start a thread, which in my opinion is much ado about nothing, in the first place. Why exactly do you think this is a big issue and why do you have such difficulty discerning between legitimate and shilling posts? I'm not itching for a fight, I consider myself a well adjusted and reasonable individual with a distinct lack of psychological issues and peculiarities. However, I do admit I am the curious and analytical sort, which explains my interest in your reasons for posting on this subject. " Please feel free to abstain and let those interested continue." Actually, my interest in your post is waning precipitously and I've contemplated abstention but I also enjoy slow-motion car wrecks, like this thread, in which no one is seriously injured. I don't believe I've stooped to personal attacks upon you or belittled you, at least not in any manner that would cause any durable harm, so I therefore don't think an apology is merited. I agree that we all have our viewpoints and that is what makes these forums both interesting and challenging. I suggest this thread should proceed and develop unfettered by any unwarranted moderation and with my sincere commitment to continuous consideration of abstention.
viridian: "“I consider myself a well adjusted and reasonable individual with a distinct lack of psychological issues and peculiarities.” Of course you do, LOL."
Well, I definitely did consider myself well adjusted and reasonable up until that unfortunate sexual molestation and murder of that young women. Okay you got me, let me just say I still consider myself a reasonable individual with the 'well adjusted' personality trait accuracy still awaiting the court appointed psychiatrist's final determination based on his extensive examination of me. Hopefully, I can report back on this open issue prior to my execution.
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