Raul, What I mean but not wanting something "ultra revealing" is that buying hi fi is a means to an end. the end is to enjoy most of the LP's that you own.
I have heard/owned ultra revealing and detailed gear in the past which has all the detail but you cannot listen to it for long periods and makes your "non audiophile" records sound like shit. That is not what I call being able to listen to music and enjoy.
Great recordings will always sound great, but it is the way a phono stage treats the not so good recordings and makes them enjoyable and removes the equipment from the equation (as much as possible) is what turms me on, not something that makes every fault magnified.
After all that is why I have 4000 odd LP's, to be able to listen to all of them at some stage and enjoy them for their musical qualities.
Does that answer your basic question?
BTW what is wrong with autoformers?. I am aware of tube noise, that is why I am asking, but it would seem that the steelhead is quiet.
Have you heard the steelhead in your sytstem Raul? , as that is the advise I am looking for, people who have lived with the steelhead and can idendify it's positives and negatives.
cheers Shane |
IMO the only response to Raul's posts is no response. He is entitled to his opinions, as misguided as most of them are, like everybody else here. The record is replete with his omniscient and combative ideas so why not let him go? I for one take no stock in anything he says and read them for the entertainment content. Roll with them and grab a few laughs. |
Raul, true to form is simply wrong again! The Steelhead is one of the quietest phono sections that money can buy. Some of that is going to be tube choice issues.
Vetterone told me that it is quieter than the X-Ono which I bought from him. Many people have claimed that there are not more than a handful of phono stages quieter than the Pass Labs (see Michael Fremers review), but the Manley is one of them.
The sound of the Steelhead is amazing, both as a pre-amp, and a phono section. You will not be disappointed with this unit. I plan to buy one in spring! |
thanks Opalchip for the recommendation. I don't need a full pre amp and Granite does not have a presence in Australia. Most importantly I cannot live without a remote for volume control at the very least. yes very laxy but important to me as I like to mix the volume around even on one LP.
cheers |
Thanks Vetterone. How did you find the sound compared to the rhea?.
EvaAnna from manley said the same thing re tune rush, however always better to get that from someone who owns one.
You and I have the same dyna XV-1s ( great cartridge) What do you load the thing at with the Manley?.
I am hoping to get a demo of a manley next week, living in Sydney that is no mean feat as they are bringing one in!
Did you have much burn in time? |
Dear Downunder: any downside??, well at the asked Steelhead price every one hopes there is no downside, unfortunatelly for the quality music sound reproduction the Steelhead has some " downside ":
first, it had a high RIAA eq. deviation from flat: " +0.5 / -0.3 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, " , this means a swing of: 0.8 db when it has to be at least 0.2 db. This deviation is severe and colored the sound. It will be interesting to see where in the frecuency range response are those deviations.
second, it use step-up autoformers for gain in the MC stage that do a degradation to the signal.
third, it use tubes: as a phono stage is noisy.
fouth, you have to roll-off the tubes to achieve better performance: this is incredible. More money !!!!!
+++++ " so ultra revealing is not something I am looking for in any phono stage. " +++++
I can't understand that statement. Do you mean that you don't care if the phono stage can't has high resolution ( revealing ) ? do you mean that you don't care if the phono stage can't reproduce what is in the LP ? Please let me know what you care about LP reproduction. I can see on your system ( very nice system ) that you use cables that are very revealing and you phono cartridge is truly revealing too along with your speakers. So I can't understand that statement.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Nothing wrong with the Steelhead at all - except if price IS an issue. If you'd prefer not to pay for the "brand premium", nor huge advertising, tradeshow, and dealer/reviewer demo budgets, consider the Granite Audio 770FP. A spectacular sounding and incredibly built preamp with phono stage from a no-hype manufacturer at half the price.
Here's a review if you're interested:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue6/graniteaudio.htm |
Downunder, I also had noticable tube rush in my system with the Rhea. Very dynamic though. At medium volume, no tube rush at all in the phono stage with the Steelhead. At full volume there is only a slight amount of tube rush in the phono side and none in the line stage side. At normal listening levels (75-90db)I can't hear any noise from about 2 feet back when the needle is between tracks. |
HOw much tube rush to you get at medium and loud volumes.
I just tried the Aesthetix Rhea and it had noticable tube rush and medium and loud volumes. |
The phono stage of the Steelhead gets wide praise. For those of us interested in a full function preamp, how does the line stage compare to the line stages of other preamps in its class/price category? I'm thinking of CAT, Aesthetix, etc. Please add your own relevant comparisons. |
Downside is the cost obviously. But upside is abundant.
Now I am using the Steelhead as a full function preamp bypassing the line stage. To me the sound is pure and extremely open. No more line stage and one less interconnect. I didn't experience the lean sound you mentioned. Steelhead is my ultimate preamp that will last for a long while. |
I agree about the sound. In particular, the mids and highs are clean and clear without any deemphasis of the low end. The sound is dynamic, emerging from a black background.
Downsides? Cost has already been mentioned. Also, having an extra chassis for the power supply eats rack space, and after a while I tire of waiting for the built-in delay circuit when switching sources, etc.
By the way, I have stayed with the stock tubes, reasonably happily. I'm curious to read about others' experiences with different tubes. |
The retail price is $7300.
Jonathan
Chambers Audio |
The best phono stage I've ever heard was a manley design. I don't really know how to describe it, except for the fact that it was so amazing that it made one believe you had an entirely new LP collection. |
Money is an issue if you don't have it, even if it is the best. Otherwise, we'd all be driving Bentleys. $10K is a lot of money for a preamp, no matter how you slice it. It may very well be worth it if you have the money, but few have the money, especially when you consider that it is only one part of a system. |
Hi, Downunder,
Yes, I think you need to roll the tubes to get the best possible sound. The character of the sound changes a lot with tube rolling. Not that it is shabby in stock form at all, it is just capable of a more lucious sound. I thought it was lean at first, but after tube rolling and listening, I realized I just hadn't heard that level of fidelity before and now use it for preamp as well as amp. Vettrone's recommended tubes are spot on. |
thanks guys.
I got the slightly lean charactisation from reading a lot of the reviews and reading somewhat in between the lines.
I just sold my Pass Xono for a pretty good price, so looking at what will be my last phono stage.
Thye steelhead seems to be the real deal. The main thing is that I want to be able to enjoy all my records, not just my finely engineered audiophile quality one's.
Is rolling the 6922's mandatory for the best musical sound? |
Lindisfarne
How can price be that big an issue when you are getting one of the best phono stages available and a line stage that is also very good? Where else can a consumer get that much from a product for less money? |
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Lean?...Somewhat when new and with stock tubes. I have not listened to the Steelhead after burn in with its stock tube compliment. After some tube rolling and about 200 hours of serious breakin time using a phono stage burn in CD, this unit is not the slightest bit lean in my system. After a number of different tube trials, I have ended up with Tung-Sol 5687 black plate/d getters and Siemen's CCa's. For the folks that prefer a warmer, tube like sound, go for some Amperex 6922's and some GE 5 Star 5687's. Want even more articulation, try some Telefunken 6922's. Some combination of these tubes should please most tastes.
The leading edge dynamics and full body of the notes from piano and guitar are the best I have had in my room yet. Soundstaging is also as good or better than the other units I have tried. For reference, I have had or have a Tom Evans Groove plus, TAG, Rhea, Supratrek Syrah and Grange, EMM Labs DCC2, X-ONO etc. The Steelhead lets me listen to any record I own AND get the most out of that record. A fault I have with some systems that let you enjoy generic recordings is that they suck the magic out a really great recording like David Roth's "Pearl Diver" or The Third's "Take The A Train". The Steelhead won't be at fault if that happens in your system.
A bonus with this phono stage is that you also get a VERY good line stage. The Steelhead's line stage has taken my digital playback to a level that makes CD listening as enjoyable now as vinyl. I am not saying that CD's now sound like vinyl, just that there is a fullness to the sound that makes me forget I am listening to digital. Much like going from standard TV to HDTV. |
Hi Shane:
Cincy_bob is correct on all points. Where did you get the impression that the Steelhead is lean?
Best regards. |
If anything, the Steelhead is known for being just a touch on the warm side. In my experience it is certainly not lean or analytical sounding. The bass is full, extended, exceptionally taut and well articulated. The treble frequencies are smooth and well extended. I should also note that the Steelhead bested the Lamm LP2 in my system. The Steelhead is the best phono stage I have personally experienced. If you are looking for a component to lend a decidedly warm character to your system, the Steelhead is probably not your best choice, but if neutrality with just a slight lean toward the warm side of the spectrum is what you are after, I would buy the Steelhead without hesitation.
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