Magico V2 vs. Q1

Yes, you have PM :-)

Do you know anyone selling a pair of EA MM3s? Thanks.

Stereotaipei:

I appreciate your posts and your system very much - great sounding gear, very well balanced comments.

To support you in your quest for an edge-of-the-art speaker as a (nice) alternative to Magico I highly recommend Lumen White Artisan and Aquilla speakers.

I myself use LW Artisan in an all AYON Audio System (CD-5s + Crossfire PA wired with JPS Labs and Stereovox cables) and the Aquillas in my main system (Ayre MR-X, Silbatone L-100, Esoteric K-01, wired with either Kondo or Crystal Cable).

Prior to the Artisans I used Magico Q3 and the Artisans easily outperformed them in almost every parameter. The Aquillas are even better (replacing a pair of Rockport speakers). So probably worth looking at them - although they love tube amplification.

q7 selling at 100k a bargain.

Hey, Ebm, there are three Q7s for sale. Can your floors support them? I've heard them and they are excellent.

Q3 why is everyone selling them??

Stereotaipei and Chayro, Thank you for your descriptions. I hope to hear the Q1 at some point. I love the Q3 having heard it at my local dealer, but it may be too big for my room. Perhaps someday Magico will come out with a Q2.

Hi Peter - I have no idea of what Magico's profit margin is for the Q1 over the Mini, but I do know the Q1's cabinet is extremely expensive to manufacture, especially compared to the S5 and the upcoming S1. To me, the Q1s are more coherent and deliver more information at lower levels than the Minis. This may or may not be important to an individual listener, depending on the type of music you listen to and how loud you want to play.

sonic improvement:
- more transparent in particular in medium (probably because of less cabinet resonance)
- smoother tweeter
- more bass extension
- gives more the impression to listen to a "big" speaker. Don't know why: maybe bass extension or maybe because of broader image.
Don't get me wrong, the Mini 2 is great, but when I compared it with Q1 in same room I realized that the improvement with the Q1 is bigger than what I expected

Charyro, do you mean from a sonic perspective, a profit perspective, or both? I wonder at this point which design has more sold units. There are quite a few Mini 1 and Mini 2 out there. If what you refer to is a sonic improvement, how would you describe the difference? Thanks.

Chayro when will you be upgrading to Magico Q1!!

Magico learned a lot between the Mini2 and the Q1.

Usermanual, could you elaborate? I don't understand your post. Thanks.

Usermanual you must have the best system on the planet,

Perhaps, but it was the TAS review by Valin that got me interested in the Magico Mini 2. I read the review, heard the speakers in three different systems and settings and then bought a pair. I couldn't be happier and I'm glad I read that review. For $12K used, the Mini2 is a very good speaker. The V2 can be found for about $10K used.

I haven't heard the Q1 yet. I'm sure it's better, but it is also twice the cost.

I agree you ears are the last judge.Absolute Sound is the official press agent for MAGICO!!

The envy of some... Truly pathetic.

I bought a pair speaker based on what "absolute sound" said and tried to sell it in just after 3 months.

Dont trust them 100%. They were paid to advertise.

We should be more cautious as many unknown brand with questionable background selling for over $100k.

But Absolute sound loves them DUDE!!When they get to 100k ill jump on a pair.

Luckily I didnt own any magico speakers even though I can afford it.... it is Overpriced and overhyped.

Not to offend any magico owners. IMHO, 10-15k for an excellent speakers would be fine for me but 185k for a pair of speakers just does not make any sense.

I still would not buy it at 70% discount brand new.

I may be wrong, but from the HKG location and from the pics, it sounds like a Q7 from the ex local dealer, Sound Chamber, which was replaced a few months ago by a new dealer, Radar (which btw was the right move as Sound Chamber was very arrogant, I hated dealing with them). Not sure if they are trying to dump their stock or just posting around Magico speakers at low price to annoy the new dealer... when they got dumped by Wilson a few years back they did everything they could to try to damage them.

A friend of mine saw an ad from them for a Q1 at a very low price in a local magazine, and when he called they told him "they sell it to friends only", so not sure how much of this is real.

Q7 used only $120K Why?

Ever heard V3 against Mini 2.

Kiwi_1282001,
Finally found MC Raidho review at a local dealer. I am not sure how you arrived at some of your findings, but at least as far as FR and efficiency goes, I see a very different picture then you. The C-1 are only 85dB efficient. Not a big of a difference to the Q1 as you allude to (0.5dB). Their 6db down point is at 45Hz. The Q1 are 84.5dB efficient and are -6dB at 39Hz. In terms of efficiency, they are just about the same, were the Q does go lower. If we take 1KHz as a reference point, the C1 has about 10dB less output at 20Hz then the Q1 (in room). If we take 100Hz as a reference, then the C1 is almost 20dB (!!) down at 20Hz. The C1 FR responses from 48-30K is +3.5Hz, -5bd (!!), were the Q1 46-25K is only +/- 3dB.

The C1 are quite depressed between 1K-6K (-5dB) and almost 5dB up at 10K. (No wonder they sound “airy”). With about 4dB extra output at 100Hz, I can conclude that they are “voiced” more than they are linear. MC measurements of the C1 are not very impressive (Did I mentioned the weight, which is less than ½ of the Q1). In all fairness, they are also ½ the price. Not sure what is the motive to compare it to a speaker that is clearly in a different category on all counts. The C1 should be compared to the new Magico S1, I don’t think the results will be much different but at least they are comparable in price.

Have you ever heard V2,Q1 or Mini2.

Your opinion means less than nothing on this thread.Have a nice day Keep on trucking.

I wouldn't consider the Mini2 to be 2nd best dude. There are a lot of speakers that sound better, but that's my opinion. The important thing is that you're happy with them. Dude.

Yes, I would be also very happy with the Mini 2, and I also prefer mini 2 than V2.
No, the Q1 is not dry sounding, actually it is warmer than the Mini 2 (tweeter less in your face). But this is true only if they are fully burned in. The first 400 hours, the sound on my Q1 changed a LOT. At the beginning, the highs were too aggressive to my taste, now, they are very liquid, I can listen for hours without getting tired of it.

Ill be very happy with 2nd best for now dude!!When i heard Q1 i thought it was a little dry sounding Magico Mini 2 sounded warmer to me.I liked Mini 2 over V2 or V3 thats my taste however.Heard the S5 is wonderful have not heard it yet.Wolf is a great salesman as well.

The mini 2 is a classic, great speaker, still better than most current speakers. But I had the privilege to listen to it in same room as the Q1, the Q1 does everything better (bass extension, imaging, transparency and sweeter highs).

I believe the Q1 is more expensive to produce than the Mini, so I would doubt that decision to move from mini to Q1 was driven by cost. Machining and high quality anodizing like you find on the Q1 is much more expensive than stacking layers of birch. Reason for moving to aluminum with extensive bracing is stiffness. The Q1 cabinet is more inert.... actually it is dead inert, which leads to a more transparent speaker.

Yes, it is shocking how small the Q1 is compared to the Mini. But internal volume is same or even a bit larger (I asked Alon Wolf when I met him at Munich show last year).

I love the aesthetic of both Mini and Q1. I just think that the Q1 is a more "intemporal design", because it is more neutral. So for long term, I would rather have the Q1 in my living room.... or the Q7... but for other reasons! ;-)

Sirspeedy, Great post. I agree that the Mini 2 is a classic. I did just take a close look at the Q1 at a dealership. It was in the hallway, so I couldn't hear it. It has very high build quality and looks quite good actually, though a very different aesthetic to the Mini. I am surprised by how much smaller it looks. Almost precious. The finish is excellent and I like the reveals around the edges. I do really like the look of the larger floor standing Q3.

I hope to someday hear Ebm's Mini2-based system. It must be wonderful.

If this is the case you should jump on a pair.Have you heard both.You may be right however Mini 2 is still better than most.

Mini2 does not compare to Q1, IMO.

Stereotaipei, It appears we have similar taste. I've narrowed down to the same 3 speaker makers except my order of preference is different.

I'm going for the Tad E1 if it's 90% of the Ref1. Probably can't demo them until Newport show.

I contacted JTinn via his company website for a local EA dealer to demo speakers but never got a reply so I guess they are off the list.

When I looked replacement for the MM3, I listened to speakers from Raidho, TAD, Kharma, Marten, Magnepan, Wilson, Lansche, Focal Utopia, Avalon, Gyia, Joseph audio, Estelon, Hansen, KEF, MBL, Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, YG, Rockport, Nola, Aerial.... for each brand at least 2-3 different speakers.
I am lucky to live in a region where it is easy to hear most brands, and I am traveling all the time across the globe, so easy for me to go to listen to new stuff.
What I liked the most besides Magico is Gyia (but cabinet is not stable and drivers look fragile), TAD.

The Mini II is a CLASSIC speaker!

It demonstrated(to me) that it could easily stand up to much bigger designs and actually embarrassed many of them."This" with a smaller foot print and almost perfect design.There is a good reason these are sealed boxes.

IMO,the economy has stopped it's production(the cabinet was imported and very expensive...not to mention gorgeous) but those owning it are fortunate and smart to hold on....I believe the newer versions,with the squared off boxes will fit in the pro applications,like recording studios a bit easier and keep profits coming in.Still good sounding but not in the Rolex/Breitling class aesthetically,like the stunning MINI!

EBM has about as great a MINI II system as anyone could ever imagine!!!

Stereotaipei, what other speakers did you auditioned before settling on Magico Q1?

If you hate Magico keep on trucking!!Its ok DUDE!!

Check out the Berlin mini by dc 10 it's way more MUSICAL and CHEAP!! and about the same size. I had V2 and loved the look and build but the sound was average. IMHO

neither,

Both are over priced and sonically boring.

I don't buy every magico... but I kept listening to other brands and didn't find something superior, so it seems I will end up with 2 Magico systems: Q1 in living room, Q7 in dedicated music room (completed with Magico center speaker and S1 when I use it as HT).
I have now the Q1 in the dedicated music room, see my system page...
The S1 should arrive in one month. I am curious to hear the head to head comparison with the Q1, with same room and same equipments.

Its great to be a high roller and buy every Magico!!

Thank you, Stereotaipei.

I live in Hong Kong and I dont think S1 has arrived... I thought about it too given my room is small, so maybe I will wait and give it a listen.

Your room and system looks mightily impressive!!!!

What happens if a dinner guest sticks a finger in the Q1 tweeter? I worry.

Hi Mariv26,

I think you have missed my point, which was I wasn't happy with the Q1 review, either in terms of MC's listening environment or some of the measurements made. I was being a bit sarcastic about the Magico / Raidho comparison. Clearly the larger driver on the Q1 should go lower in bass - but that was not MC's "in room" finding was it?

According to the "Lab Report" in Vol 5/No 2 the old Raidho C-1.0 (the 1.1 BTW goes lower) had in room “extension to 29Hz at moderate power”. MC cites 30Hz for the Q1 which looks odd given the bigger bass driver and the fact that Magico rate the Q1 at 32Hz -3dB (presumably measured anechoically). My point if you carefully re-read my earlier comment is the room is influencing the observations made and a quick look at the waterfall display shows some of the issues. I am not surprised that the HiFi critic review is not posted on Magico’s site. The measured results are quite far from the manufacturers specification.

why not go to an electrostic, like the martin logan summit. Electrostic resolution (still superior to any cone and dome speaker), no crossover till your down to the 300 hz region, and adjustable bass controls for room tuning with extension to the mid 20's - all for only 15k - now that's a real upgrade.

Magico Mini 2 will always be a great speaker Q1 sounded wonderful i little dry for my taste.Magico Mini 2 looks 100% better Dude!!

I just saw the S1 at my local dealer. Lovely looking speaker. I went back the next day to listen to it but they had swapped it out for the S5. The dealer told me that he thinks the S1 sounds much more like the Q1 than the S5 sounds like the Q5. Perhaps the S1 is the great value in the Magico line today.

I'm actually hoping for a Q2 someday. That might get me to upgrade from my MIni 2. I would like to buy the Q3 but I think it is too much speaker for my room and I prefer the looks of the Mini to the Q1. I'm sure the Q1 sounds fantastic.

Evolution Acoustics and Magico are very different sounding speakers.

btw.. you should listen also to S1. Very impressive for less than half of Q1 price. I would say it is significantly better than V2.
I have ordered a pair I will use as surround speakers, should arrive in one month. Will be interesting to compare them with my Q1, in the same room. Would guess that Q1 still wins, but by a narrower margin than what the price difference suggests.

I have replaced a pair of Evolution acoustics MM3 (500lbs per piece) with a pair of Q1. I don't regret the MM3 at all. It doesn't go down to 16Hz like MM3, but it is doing all the rest much better. I use them in a completely treated, dedicated room (see the thread "new home for my Magico Q1" thread in whatsbestforum to see some pics of the room). The room is extensively treated with bass traps resonators, so no room resonance to help. It still sounds great.

I have listened to Q1 against Mini 2 in the same room. Q1 gets more lower, is more transparent, images better and have a sweeter, less in your face tweeter. I am sorry for the bad news: it is a much better speaker, so you should listen to them only if ready to buy them ;-)
I have heard also the Raidho in several occasions, but not in same room as my Q1. Good speakers, but not great. Personally I don't get what is all the fuzz about it.

PS: one last comment, before judging the Q1, make sure they are well burnt it. Sounds improved A LOT over the first 1000 hours.