Magico S5 review

I agree. Most Magico speakers need incredible amounts of power into 4 ohms. Much more than you would think.

I think people's opinion of "driving" a speaker differs dramatically.

After hearing the S5s several times (including Vac 450s in a large room), the most successful pairing was on Constellation Centaur- which is 500w into 4ohms.

While I wouldn't describe them as sharp in the treble when driven by suitable quality electronics, Magico speakers are definitely extremely revealing and not what would be considered as forgiving in the highs. Of course you would be best advised to check them out for yourself with your amp before making the decision to purchase them.

I've had a pair of Totem Fire Monitors for 3+ years now, enjoy them a lot (with a Velodyne sub woofer), have auditioned some floor standing speakers, but cannot accommodate ones that are very deep (front to back measurement).

I was fairly impressed with the Wilson Audio Sasha W/P's until I played some music I enjoy, where the recording was "less than ideal". I could not stand the shrillness of the Wilson's playing such stuff as Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run" album. I'm not going to give up listening to him, the Beatles, Stones, etc. because my speakers are "un-forgiving".

So the first question I have is whether the Magico's are "sharp" at the top end?

I am not a "tube" or "vinyl" fan, have a music server with hi-rez (mostly 44.1/16) files, a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and a McIntosh 200 wpc solid state amp.

I noticed that a dealer about an hour's drive from home is a Magico dealer.

Thoughts about whether I'd be a Magico fan?

I drive myself crazy comparing before I buy and it can take a long time researching, listening and trialling in my system. Trying out just one speaker, and buying it because you love the improvement for the price is an equally valid approach, but that approach will never work with my nature. Maybe I would be happier if I was able to be more impulsive with audio but I am bewildered that people can be happy that way. I think I just enjoy the buying process to much.

Mike your comment is actually quite timely. I was musing the other day about the "decreasing sonic returns" issue with a well known audio reviewer with whom I trade e mails from time to time.

I drive Paradigm Signature 8s (v3) with ARC gear. The S8s share a number of similar build characteristics with the Revel Ultima 2 speaker line, e.g., Be tweeters, bass reflex system, high-order acoustic x-overs, and so forth. Not saying that one brand excels over the other because I've never listened to the Revels.

Funny thing is that my S8s sound pretty good to me. I also use a sub woofer to x-over at 35 Hz, which covers the bottom octave very nicely without bloating the bass.

Yet, because I've read so many glowing reviews and comments about the Magico S5s, I've got an itch to try them. Problem is arranging an audition is difficult. Also, the cost delta to get into the Magicos is quite large and I wonder out loud whether diminishing returns will kick in???

I've heard it said that if one gets used to listening to sonic swill long enough, one gets to like the sound of swill. But to be fair, I'm being extremely unfair to my S8s. They really do sound pretty good to me and I enjoy them very much. My ARC amp does a great job driving them.

I also suspect that I could achieve a more cost efficient sonic improvement by buying better grades of redbook CD and picking up more good quality vinyl. Waiting for a hi-rez CD reissue of a Dave Brubeck classic LP to be delivered. That should be great.

Maybe one day, I'll get a chance to arrange for a "fair" (apples to apples) audition of the Magicos. In the meantime, I'll slurp the swill. :)

Cheers

This thread is a older than I realised so read my post in that context.

I have heard a number of the high end older Focals and it put me off the brand completely for many years. The new Focals however are a completely different story. You need to listen to a lot of modern speakers to see how they excel by comparison. I did that. Focal is not to everyone's taste, but I voted with my wallet on them. From what I have heard, Magico is v good but has not appealed to my taste as much so far. That said, you have bought a great brand which suits your taste and budget. If you feel you achieved enough improvement for your money that's all that counts, and I believe you feel you have, so enjoy them!

Thanks Charles. FWIW, got this message from Magico,

"Hi [Bruce],

The S5 can be driven with any modern amp we know of, including all Arc models.

I wish you all the best - happy listening, Jon Baker Magico"

Btw Charles, I happen to agree with your comment that an audition is the only way to go. Also agree that audio is a fusion of science, art and engineering.

Time will tell.

P.S. -- Just a guess really, but my amp has 4 ohm taps. ARC and Stereophile test results indicate that my amp should be able to deliver 150 wpc when driving a 4 ohm load off the 4 ohms taps with low distortion. That might augur well with the S5s because its rated impedance is 3 to 4 ohms, by and large, in the "power range" of the speakers, say less than 500 Hz.

Hello Bruce,
Yes I'm aware of the Absolare power rating and the Magico S5 challenging load impedance, but hearing trumps nunbers on paper. If youn ever have the time , read the numerous show reports of that combination. Certainly the S5 would presumably do well with higher power amplifiers . I used this example as a real life demonstration of how specifications don't reveal the entire picture (though they are a good starting point guide).
The "quality" of transformers and power supply aren't reflected when reading specifications or purely judging by measurements. Another example, my friend Jwm has the Rockport Atairs. He has the Absolare amplifiers and his long time VAC Phi 300.1 mono blocks (excellent PP amplifiers). He found the Absolare clearly better than his Phi 300.1 in his opinion (I agree). Of course it's subjective (and always will be ). Audio is really a mixture of science/engineering and art.

Charles,

Just noticed that in the thread I linked to there is a post dated 12-5-11 by Kevin Carter, under the screen-name "Delta27," confirming the relevant statements in the post by Kevin Hayes.

Sure is nice that we often have noted designers participating here in these forums.

Bruce, true enough, re your last statement.

Best,
-- Al

Thanks Al,
Over the years I've heard different versions of this story but I have no reason to doubt the Kevin Hayes version.Either way it was and remains an excellent amplifier.
Charles,

Charles1dad .... am I getting the right specs for the tube amp you mentioned:

"- Tubes: 2 x 845, 2 x 6SN7 (Every unit comes with custom-selected NOS 6sn7 tubes and PSAVANE HIFI Series 845 tubes)
- Output power: 52 watts"

I'm sure the Absolare amp sounds great, but at 52 watts, not exactly a giant killer. I put an inquiry in with Magico. I'll report back if and when I get more information.

Even used, the S5s is not inexpensive. I saw one advertised for $23K -- not cheap. Also noted that someone was advertising a used Q3 for $21K. No point in going too far down the road if my amp will melt trying to drive the load.

Fortunately, there's a dealer located in Delaware that carries Magico. I might try to get down there to give a listen. The dealer also carries Focal. I've also been thinking about the Electra 1038 Be II.

You'll notice that the common denominator between my speakers, the Magicos and the Focals is that all three brands use a berylium tweeter, which based on what I've read, is a pretty impressive transducer.

Al ... you got to admit that even though the S5s may be a tough load, it's not too often that one gets to see dynamic speakers with such a flat impedance curve.

05-31-14: Charles1dad
I've always enjoyed the VAC REN 300b push pull amplifiers (thought Kevin Carter actually designed this series of amps for Kevin Hayes).

Hi Charles,

Thanks for raising that question, which rang some bells in my mind and left me uncertain. I then found this post by Kevin Hayes. See item 7 in particular, which describes Kevin Carter's role while he was at VAC, and confirms that the Renaissance amplifiers were designed by Kevin Hayes, with assistance from a technician he employed, and mechanical design by his father.

Best,
-- Al

Meant Kevin Carter not Cater,

I heard the Magico S5 driven effortless by the Absolare Passion PSET 845 mono blocks for several long listening sessions at CES 2014(including the preperation of the room prior to the opening day). Absolare used this same pairing atRMAF 2013 sucessfully, no apparent problems with that speaker's load. I've always enjoyed the VAC REN 300b push pull amplifiers(thought Kevin Cater actually designed this series of amps for Kevin Hayes).
Charles,

Bruce, yes, my amp is a VAC Renaissance 70/70 MkIII, from about a dozen or so years ago, but it has little if any similarity to the amps VAC currently produces (aside from having been designed in a robust manner by the same designer, Kevin Hayes). My amp uses four 300B directly heated triode power tubes per side, in push-pull parallel, providing 65 watts. The current VAC amps are all KT88-based, and are considerably more powerful. I don't need a great deal of power, as you'll recall, because of the efficiency and easy to drive impedance characteristics of my speakers.

The VAC 450S, btw, that was indicated by several people earlier in this thread as being particularly synergistic with the S5, cost $39K as of a couple of years ago. Its power supply and amplifier chassis together way 200+ pounds! And the other two amps in the 450 series are monoblocks weighing that much per side, and costing two and three times that amount, respectively!

All of those amps, btw, have output taps described as being suitable for 2 ohm loads. Mine even has a tap designated as being for 1 to 2 ohm loads.

Best,
-- Al

Thanks for the tip Al. I read Elberoth's post -- an EPDR of 1 ohm in the low bass --uuhhm. Might as well just short my amp and save the cost of buying the S5s.

Interestingly, I recall seeing some posts that said that Alon Wolf voices his speaker on VAC gear. Al ... that's you brand amp isn't it?

I wonder if Mr. Wolf needs a tractor trailer to haul the largest VAC amp made into his factory. I gather his speakers will soak up as much watts as can be thrown at them.

I'll proceed with caution.

Thanks Al.

Bruce (Bifwynne), re the impedance magnitude and phase angle plots for the S5, while the variation of impedance magnitude as a function of frequency is a good deal less than on many speakers, including your present ones, I would consider the S5's impedance characteristics to be quite demanding.

The impedance magnitude appears to be at or below 3 ohms from around 50 Hz to around 150 Hz, and also throughout the top octave. With phase angles that are significantly negative (capacitive) in much of those regions, including a particularly severe combination of low impedance and highly capacitive phase angles in the 50 to 75 Hz area, where a lot of energy is often required.

See also the post in this thread by Elberoth2 dated 11-29-12.

My guess is that your ARC REF 150 would be able to handle all of that with relative aplomb (using the 4 ohm tap), but I'm not sure that it or most other amps would fully sound their best in doing so.

Just my $0.02. Best,
-- Al

I've got an eye (or perhaps better, an ear) on the Magico S5s. Just caught this bench test report, here:

www DOT soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1043:nrc-measurements-magico-s5-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Knowing what I know after many years of breaking my technical teeth, I am very impressed by these bench test reports. Especially the impedance and phase angle plots. The flat frequency response and ultra low distortion numbers are equally impressive.

I guess that leave me with the one unanswered question ... the most important question. How do they sound?

I intend to find out an will report back if I get a chance to audition them.

BIF

@Peterayer, the Pass xa.5 amps are very nice indeed. I could imagine the XA160.5 would have good synergy with your Mini 2's, and the XA200.5 even moreso given the Mini's 87db effiency. As for the S5's, Magico have been quoted as stating an 87db figure which agrees with HiFi News lab results which also showed a moderate 2.5ohm impedance dip, so 400 watts should be about right for the S5.

Btw, the best i've heard the Q1's sound was with a Vitus SIA-025, SCD-010 cdp & Siltech Royal Sig series cables. That combination was incredibly natural and pure. Just a match made in Heaven. And I wouldn't describe Vitus as a super fast amp by any means.

I agree that Magico sounds nice with some warmth somewhere in the chain. I use Pass XA160.5 with my Mini 2s. I'm curious why they always demo at shows with Spectral gear and MIT cables.

I think it's a very detailed sound, but the best I've heard the Q series sound at my local dealer who shows with Spectral and MIT is when they use either a Basis or SME turntable. Much more natural to my ears than with the hi rez digital servers that are also in the system.

@Aprica88, the Vacs have a bit of an advantage since Magico voice their speakers with Vac amps, though in general the S5's sound best with high quality amps which are either tubed, or tube-like and have good power and control. The big Vitus amps, Dartzeel, Gryphon and Vac's big mono blocks come to mind. Boulder also sounds great, though for synergy would benefit from warm sounding cables such as Siltech or Jorma Prime & a warm sounding source like a vinyl deck, tubed cdp or something like a Vitus SCD-025. As always, it's all about synergy.

Heard the S5 using VAC 450s and it sounds a lot better.
More coherent

I should give credit to the VAC Statement 450.

Aprica, your brief commment leaves it open ended as to weather you liked, or didn't like the S5's. If not, then would you care to elaborate what you didn't like about them?

Just visited and listened to magico S5 at a dealer using soulutions mono....

sounded more like a stage concert speakers to me..

Spent the last few days speaking with Scott Walker in California. This dude rocks. He obsesses perfection like all of us do. Never met the guy in person, but I can tell he wants, he needs, he wishes for me to realize the full potential of my Magico S5s. He's like Jack Nicholoson in "A Few Good Men"..."...you want me on that wall; you need me on that wall..." He was direct with me on the phone about what I needed to do to get my room and equipment right. I tested to make sure he wasn't just about selling me new equipment or gadgets....the fact he probed and questioned and discussed a whole bunch of stuff on my system and room setup leads me to believe he is the real deal. I'm flying him up to personally assess and configure my system and room. Money well spent. The beauty of our hobby and passion is guys like Scott who obsess perfection (and therefore support brands like Magico), go the extra mile, so we can fully realize the potential of our systems...which...speaking for myself...I've invested a lot of dough....

I listened to the S1, S5 and Q3 at HANSEN Audio in Dayton.

First, I thought that ALL the MAGICO speakers were very well like one another in their tonal balance. True, the room to my ear, favored the S1 (not the speaker's fault).

My impressions, on all three, are amazing levels of resolution. Voices seem textured oh so well. I'm a mid range fanatic as I listen to mostly folk type music; Cat Stevens, Linda Ronstadt, Seals and Croft, Peter Paul and Mary ETC. MAGICO's approach electrostatic levels of detail like no other dynamic cone driver speaker I've yet heard. And, the air suspension system allows them to go deep in a smaller box, at some efficiency limits. So buy more watts. I have a MOON W-8 that would be fine, a very neutral amplifier.

Faults are, and this is NOT actually true...yet, is that they really put you in a SPOT to hear the "magic". Move left or right of that spot and the image collapses into itself rapidly. They still sound very open, so this isn’t as bad a sin as some speakers that HAVE to reach out to one another to sound good, one MAGICO is darn good sounding! Yes, to get the level of resolution they may HAVE to limit the dispersion, true. This isn't unheard of (pun intended).

MAGICO owners, do you listen off axis (sure, I admit it, I lie on the couch off to the side more than half the time and just chill out to the stereo instead of the TV) and still get pretty good center imaging? My C4's don't mind off axis seats at all, and hang onto their virtues extremely well.

I am somewhat captivated by this speakers resolution capabilities. The highs may seem "bright" only because they are so open and float in space and depth. Bass is the visceral tight bass you feel (and I LIKE IT!). Don't know how deep it really goes. I use Two DD10+ subs with my C4's to get truly flat to 25 Hz.

The C4 signatures image like crazy no matter where you sit. They have a super smooth nice sound, but not the resolution that the MAGICO's have. No way. The C4's are good, the MAGICO's are simply killing the category on detail. The S5's would be the best "version" to fill a pretty large room and produce a decently robust sound stage (the C4's do that very easily). Not to mention, I can't ever afford the Q3.

I can see why MAGICO owners like this speaker; detail, detail, detail without the electrostatic dynamic range limitations. Still I'd have to listen for awhile to make sure it isn't too much. I'll admit, when you first listen to a speaker like this, you get sort of blown away by the finely drawn lines of resolution around everything. You have to re-learn your music again. But oh that midrange. I listened to K.D. Lang and Oh my, if angels do exist. OK, I bought the CD the next day. Still thinking about those S5's, though.

They are indeed expensive, but seem to be a category killer for openness and detail. The new S5 is a well-placed speaker. Some say that they have a MAGICO house sound (I do) but they must mean that in a good way. Few speakers try to have no sound as much as these do. If this product can hang in there off axis (it has to match my life style) it could be waiting for me some day.

For those that have just that one seat, bravo for you!

Just spent the morning listening to my S5 (with the new grills attached). Didn't get a sense the grills take anything away sonically and they look great. For kicks I put the Magnepan 3.7 speakers in the mix and A/B versus the Magico S5, using same equipment (Benz LP-S/Graham Phantom Suprmeme/Clearaudio Innovation Wood to Herron phono preamp to VAC Ren Mk III pre to VAC 450S amp.

As good as I thought the Maggies are with speed, air, resolution, harmonics....the Magico's beat them by a wide margin in every department, and then brought slam, dynamics, and a new couple of registers of bass. No grain or hash. Smooth and articulate with incredible extension. While the bass is a big step up, it isn't just the reach, it is the absolute articulation...zero muddiness or slop. For me the S5 speakers' hat trick is total resolution and extension but with coherence and flow/timbre/musicality (versus analytical etchiness). Now I just need to find my summer amp (leaning toward Hegel H30). And, I'm experimenting with which speaker taps to use on VAC. Moving from the 2-4ohm to 4-8 changed things a bit.

Usermanual,
Was actually just aligning my thoughts with Knghifi impressions of TAD and his usage/choice of words.

Heck, anyway don't listen to measurements, nor to what reviewers have to say anymore. My musical enjoyment is sole goal, hence use my ears and vouch with my money - mistaken or not - who are you to say? Moreover, if that immediacy (involvement) that draws me in into the music is really a mistake, then I'd rather have it wrong all my life.

Btw.You a Magico dealer? (Gathering from all your almost exclusively Magico's related posts). No doubt Magico makes some good speakers (they are not alone!), but you are promoting them in ways detrimental to itself, imo. Seemingly, for one to like/prefer other brand here is a crime deserving some kind of pot shots/condescending remarks. Thus, not in the spirit of friendly discussions nor sharing of experiences anymore. Lighten up, its only a hobby!

What Knghifi is referring to is the sound of a cone break-up, which the TAD has plenty of starting at 6K (See JA measurements).
It is a similar phenomenon in ALL Accuton based speakers as well (i.e. Tidal, Avalon etc). Some audiophiles mistaken that sound for “immediacy - as in inherent lively” sound.

Bvdiman, yes and very interesting your horn analogy. My Magico salesman also use the horn analogy describing Tad but without the sub integration problems.

I don't want anything boring and not only hearing, but feeling the dynamic swings with my heart racing. This is one of the most important requirements for my components/system.

Also Magico's bass with it's sealed enclosure design is not as impactful and extended ... just sounds different but superior to the V3 if my memory is correct

It's amazing how someone familiar with all these speakers on my list and have a different conclusion but I respect his opinion. This is the reason it's important to audition any purchase and not just accept advice on a free internet forum.

02-06-13: Knghifi
Stereotaipei, they are detailed and high resolution but lay back and a bit mellow compare to Tad and Vivid where it's more aggressive in your face.
____________________________

Knghifi, did you actually mean to say?...
Magico - controlled, a bit restrained.
Tad, Vivid - more *immediacy - as in inherent lively character of horns.

As having heard few nice Tad set-ups, never found them to be anything 'aggressive/in your face' - which connote more towards negativity in my book, ie.harsh, fatiguing.

Stereotaipei, they are detailed and high resolution but lay back and a bit mellow compare to Tad and Vivid where it's more aggressive in your face.

melbguy1,
I would take the Hegel over the Boulder (better value for money). The Hegel pre is also very good.
Btw, I own none of them, I have a Devialet and a Dartzeel 108 with my Q1.

Knghifi,
that's a the first time I hear anybody stating that one magico speaker of the Q serie is too lay back. Actually they are the opposite, they have the hyper-definition of a very good electrostats and the power impact of a traditional cone speaker. If you found them too lay back, that means they were limited by upstream components (e.g. tube with insufficient current reserve)

Stereotaipei, actually I auditioned the Q3 and not S5. I find the Q3 a bit too lay back for my taste. Of course setup and associated components are important, my ranking is TAD and Vivid tied, Magico, avantgarde if the subs are properly setup,a BIG if, it will rank higher. Too busy with work so still haven't demo the new Maggies yet.

If the Tad E1 is 90% of the Ref1, I'll probably go for the E1 and save some $$ for my new summer car.

I have a VAC Sig MKIIa pre and was planning to get the 450's for my new speakers but now might have Roger Modjeski build me a pair of RM300s mono. I like the sound of the KT120s and he can custom build them with 300 or 400wpc and other option so can drive any speakers I will get.

Thanks for your input.

@Stereotaipei, thanks for your feedback. I've also heard Dartzeel amps with the S5's and agree they sound great together. Just curious if you have compared the Boulder 1060 to the less expensive Hegel H30 (with or without their respective preamps (Boulder 1010/Hegel P30)? Price does not guarantee better sound, so i'd be interested on which of these amps you think would likely sound better with the S5?

knghifi,
My ranking of the speakers you mention (I listened to all of them several time): Magico > TAD > Vivid >> Magnepan >> avantgarde.

If you heard the S5 on Constellation and Spectral, I am not surprised you prefer Constellation. Spectral is so cold and uninvolving. But you can get MUCH better sound with Dartzeel, Hegel, Vitus, Boulder than with Constellation. I like the mid of the big VAC 450 ref, but the bass is a bit too mushy to my taste compared to a very good ss (heard the VAC only on Q7, not on S5)

You should have auditioned Focal Stella EM as well.

Hi Knghifi,

Well, I'm not gonna argue with those choices. All of those are good speakers overall. I hope you find the one you're most happy with.

Yeah, audio shows are really the way to go nowadays. And you get to meet fellow audiophiles! An added bonus. Sounds good.

Good luck with your search...

Charles1dad, Andra II is an excellent speaker and one of the reasons I sold it is it requires a big high current amp to make it sing so new speakers has to more efficient. I almost bought a pair of Trios last month but back off with the fear integrating the sub to the horns. I don't want to use Avantgarde but after market subs.

The problem is there are many great speakers in the market so tough to pick one.

Hnghifi,
The Avantga rde will open doors to the world of superb low power amps as an option.
Regards,

Dave_72 & Charles1dad,
I'm leaning towards Tad but have not made up my mind. I have Magico, Vivid, Magnepan, Avantgarde Trio ... wide range of speakers on my list.

It impossible to demo speakers locally so planning to attend the Newport Beach Audio show this June. It's my old stomping grounds so good to visit friends and get some good Mexican, Sushi and Chinese food too. :-) My ONLY system is a Logitech Boom now so will be a LONG 6 months.

Knghifi,
I don`t know if your mind is made up yet on certain speaker brands.I heard many speakers at CES that retail for 40K and up that were outperformed(under these show conditions) by the Acoustic Zen Crescendo speaker. The music it made driven by the Triode CORP. amplifier was some of the'very best' I heard.Natural-organic,transparent,open and quite dynamic. It was most involving and convincing.It fill their room with beautiful sound.
Regards,

Mreapoe100-

very nice review of the MagicoS5. That speaker is on my short-list to demo along w/ the Sony AR-1 / AR-2.

Regarding (the) Pink Floyd's DSOTM- use 'Time' as a reference track, as well as, 'Have a Cigar' from WYWH.

Happy Listening!

Hi Knghifi,

Only the E1s were on active display. The Ref1s were off to the side of the room in passive display. So, unfortunately, I didn't hear them side by side. Just by going from memory, the E1s have quite a bit of the sound from the Ref1s. It's crisp, rich, and effortless. You have the live sound, period. A lot of competing manufacturers stopped by and walked away with their tails between their legs! They know they can't compete! I am a believer in the all TAD system. It's damn good stuff. Would I miss the Ref1s? Probably. A full TAD system is not cheap, but it is less expensive than a lot of the competition.

I found the TAD room/system(with Concert Fidelity/Silicon Arts) more appealing than the Magico at this year`s CES.Rooms I found even better were the Octave-Dynaudio,Acoustic Zen-Triode Corp,Siltech(class A SS amp)-Crystal(glass enclosure speaker).The highlight for me was Absolare Passion-Rockport Altair, sublime music reproduction in that room.
Regards,

Sold my EW Andra II and in the market for new speakers. Spent an afternoon at Goodwin High End with the Magico Q3. I heard them with 2 different configurations. 1st config was Constellation amp, EAR pre, Kubala Elation cables and the other was all Spectral and top of the line MIT cables. In both config, using latest top of the line MSB Dac.

I much prefer #1 over #2. Never a fan of Spectral and the latest has not changed my mind. System sounds very hifish. #1 wasn't bad and has potential. In both config I actually prefer my system with the EW except for the midbass hump and some midrange smearing. Still leaning towards Tad Ref1 or E1 but dealer doesn't have E1 in stock for demo. Will be auditioning Magnepan 20.7 at local dealer next.

Dave_72, Did you hear both the Tad Ref1 and E1 at CES? How do they compare? If you get the E1, will you miss the Ref1s?

I wish Magico will offer active versions of their loudspeakers. No heat-sinking necessary! It's so unfair for active fans like us.

Sorry, I didn't get to go to that room. Sounds like a great combo though!