Detail from the Grado is not even close. I have had a Grado Statement Reference and a Lyra Delos (since upgraded to a Kleos). IMHO, the Grado is not in the same league. yes, the tonality of a Grado is very nice, but detail is absent - it produces very pretty mush. It is difficult to find a phono pre that works well with the Grado - an EAR 834P seemed to multiply its faults. Information and help from anyone connected with Grado is very hard to come by - the opposite of dealing with Lyra. |
Thank you, Lloydc. Was your Grado in the new "1" series? Your reply is very helpful. |
Glad I could contribute. My Statement Reference is the original type; no experience with the revised version. |
I'd take the Grado all day long. You couldn't pay me to own a Lyra. I value music over detail, hyped treble and artificiality. |
The Delos is an excellent cartridge, among the best I have heard and does not concentrate on any one part of the performance. It is rich, musical, detailed and very quiet in the groove. I expect it to be my reference cartridge for quite some time. |
I agree 100% with Manitunc. I like my Delos enough that I am keeping it and selling my XV-1s to put the $$$ towards a table upgrade. Its very balanced from top to bottom and walks the line between detailed and musical better than anything I have heard in its price range. |
About this i own the following system:
Vpi classic 3 / sds power supply
Arc ref 5se preamplifier
Arc ref 150 amplifier
Arc ph8 phono stage
Transparent reference xl mm2 and power cords
In terms of detail maybe lyra will provide more than grado, but in terms of musicality and close to real thing the grados are closer than anyone else,
We share all times with musicians and recording engineers and they all agree with this. If you are looking for high end sound with hyper detail then lyra is for you but if you are looking for musicians playing in your room as the real thing then grados are for you. |
i forgot to mention something loudspeakers are martin logan clxs with depth subwoofers |
While I echo Tomjoe's statement in regard to musicality over hyped treble and artificiality, because I have Grado as well; I can understand why many "audiophile's" don't like Grado. "Rock", to my ears is noise. The majority of Audiophiles here, like Rock. Without a doubt, Grado is the least preferred cartridge for anyone who likes Rock. Rock enthusiasts don't like, or appreciate the nuances of female jazz vocalists, they prefer what to my ears is "Boom Bada Boom", consequently they prefer "hard" sounding cartridges that they call "fast". The bottom line is the cartridge best for you, depends on what kind of music you like.
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While I would never describe a Lyra as "rich" sounding, I do enjoy them for their ability to extract details, superb speed and tracking ability. The Grado Statement 1 in my experience is no slouch, however, it is far from the Lyra in terms of personality. Ying and Yang, if you will. |
Amazing the number of people who can comment on things but have no first hand knowledge of what they actually sound like. |
Whether the Delos is too bright or the Grado too bass heavy and dull is largely dependent on taste and system balancing. Because I listen a lot to digital sources, as well as vinyl, I require a cartridge/phonostage combination that is most nearly matched, in terms of basic tonal balance, to digital sources. If the two are far apart, there is no way that a change in any other part of the chain can improve the sound of one without detracting from the other.
I think it would be harder to match the Grado with a phonostage to achieve a similar overall balance with digital sources than any Lyra cartridge. If one starts with the Grado and selects downstreamcomponents to complement the Grado sound, most digital sources would end up sounding lean and harmonically threadbare. |
I also really wonder. I certain notice that the newer design cartridge tends to have more extended top, more detail and I think overall,actually more neutral than the older design cartridge. Some like it, some accuse the new design of being more digital like! Personally, I think this more digital like quality is not a bad thing. If the record contains all of these high frequency signal, why not play it. I don't think anyone is accusing Lyra or Air Tight of having hard, edgy, bright or whatever other digititis quality associating with digital gear but is simply not as roll off as some of the other cartridges. |
Be careful on which turntable the Grado will be mounted. They have a tendency to HUMMMMMMMM |
Susceptibility to hum has been greatly diminished with the advent of low 0.5mv output within the Statement 1 range. |
Grado's hum on Rega. I can't even imagine a lean Grado.
When you stop and think about the question, it's not a very good question. Anyone considering a "Grado", should not even have "Lyra" on the list, and vice versa, unless they are just experimenting with different cartridges. These two cartridges are so far apart as not to even be in the same universe. |
I'm occasionally running a Grado Statement Master 1 after moving from a 5.0 mv Grado Sonata. The detail retrieval and high end end extension are better in the lower output version, but at a price. As the first poster Lloydc noted, it's hard to find a phono stage that works well with the low output Grados IMO. Even though it is rated at a .5 mv output, it seems to have less output and dynamics than my Ortofon Kontrapunkt H rated for the same output. I had to go through three phono stages before hitting on the RCM Sensor Prelude, which works well. The character of the rest of your system has a big influence on how well a Grado plays rock. My Tidal Piano Ceras and the Acoustic Signature Final Tool turntable greatly counterbalance the warm and slightly syrupy nature of the Grado. Bass on rock recordings slams with the Grado, nothing shabby about it at all to my ears. Obviously tastes and equipment partnering are a factor. Larryi's observations are on the mark. Hum was never a factor with high or low output Grados on either a VPI Scout or the Acoustic Signature tables. |
After reading reviews of the two cartridges, I believe they confirmed my opinion. The Delos reviewer's spoke glowingly about the specs, detail and everything that makes a cartridge special, but they never mentioned what kind of music they were using to review the cartridge, while the Grado reviewer mentioned a jazz vocalist.
The Grado reviewer stated that the best moving coils still have more apparent "life" and dynamic energy than the Grado, but this sound is colored and exotic.
That's the difference between not only the cartridges, but aspects of music the listeners find most appealing. "Way out" music would be more exciting with a Lyra than a Grado, but when it comes to the soul of a jazz vocalist like Carmen McRae, nothing can beat a Grado. The difference between which cartridge enhances the music you listen to the most is the factor that should be the most important.
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Ive owned both in the same system and listen to mostly jazz, male and female vocals, some folk/country, and some classical and classic rock. I cant remember a single album of any type music that the Grado was as realistic as the lyra. It added some warmth and was more forgiving but every recording it seemed to be missing some of the music and the ambience when compared to the Lyra.
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All the Grado reviewers, and Grado devotees say the same thing about "Grado". They say "Grado got soul". Not all music "got soul". Consequently not all audiophiles need or want a "Grado". Many audiophiles are unable to hear that element in the music Grado devotees call "soul", even if the music they're listening to has it.
Audiophiles who fall into this category, should by all means choose "Lyra".
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Sad to say that the soul the Grado SR1 adds is veiled, colored, and lacks clarity. Thats probably why alot of reviewers dont use them. They tend to mask the (good and bad) recordings. I dont use either the Lyra or the Grado now, just think when compared to each other the Grado SR1 sounds dated, slow, and veiled which robs the listener from hearing alot of the soul of the music you mentioned. To each his own. |
