LONDON Decca, Tzar DST and similar cartridges


I have always been curious about these phono cartridges and the Stereophile review of the Tzar DST has heightened my interest. When I read about the peculiarities of these cartridges, I am put off from trying them. Can anyone offer persuasive reasons to try them and also provide real practical advice on how to make them work reliably?  Tonearm suggestions? Phono preamp suggestions? Damping recommendations? How badly do they grind out record grooves?  Any other words of advice? Thanks. 
kmccarty
ct0517,

That's a great question. In my experience a 1/2 track 15ips master tape is a close to live as I've ever heard. However the Decca really does a fantastic job of simulating a tape. 
We've all heard 'dynamic, sweet, rich,robust,liquid,wet' sounding cartridges. What is unique about the Decca is the rendering of tones. I love jazz trios, I know the sound of live drums, bass and piano. When I play the Decca, it doesn't add accentuation or color to the music. (Most of us actually are very uses to hearing our music colored in some manner).  You can close your eyes and visualize the trio playing like never before. You hear the true piano overtones, the resonance of the upright bass and the real impact of the drums. Nothing is unnatural, which it what makes it unique. Many of my audio friends prefer other cartridges but I believe this is because they are not very familiar with live music. This cartridge sounds live. 
I've listened to old Deccas, new Deccas and three different models. The presentation is the same. If you enjoy live music you'll love what these will do for your record collection. 
Norman
normansizemore
I have the Decca London, and use it with a Grace 747 tonearm. Everything you’ve read is true. It has a unique sonic presentation, and I haven’t found anything that it doesn’t play well.


Hi normansizemore

I am referencing your Reel to Reel thread here

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/reel-to-reel-uses

and my post is specifically in reference to 15 IPS master tape dubs.

When you say for the Decca London " it has a unique sonic presentation"

In your experience how does "unique" relate to the sonic presentation of 15 IPS master tape dubs.

thanks.

Some other arms people have found to work well with Deccas and Londons: The Arm by David Fletcher (designer of the original SOTA table); Mission Mechanic (a U.K. arm similar to The Arm); Fidelity Research FR-64/66; Keith Monks (a somewhat rare U.K arm---I've never seen one for sale); Eminent Technology or other air bearing straight tracker (Kuzma perhaps?); Decca International (no surprise there, ay?! It's a unipivot, though).

The long-held common wisdom was the design liked a damped unipivot arm, which London still recommends. I really dislike them ergonomically, however (the left-to-right-"floppiness". Plus, I'm not convinced highly modulated grooves are not capable of rocking the cartridge and hence rotating the arm tube about it's center, if you see what I mean).

The other belief was that the arm should be of higher than rather lower mass, for those who, unlike halcro, believe in getting the arm/cartridge resonance to around 10-12 Hz. After discussing the matter with Robert Levi (he recommends an arm with a lower "moment of inertia", i.e. mass), I entered the mass figure of the London Reference and Rock outrigger hardware (17.5g total) into the arm/cartridge resonant frequency calculator on The Vinyl Engine site, and was surprised by the results. Any arm is going to be a compromise, as the lateral and vertical compliances of the cartridge differ (15 and 10, respectively). Straight tracking air bearing arms have different moving mass figures, but I'm not sure if it's in the right direction (lateral versus vertical), or the opposite. The calculator suggested an arm with rather low moving mass for the 17.5g figure, like 8-10g, to achieve the 10-12 HZ figure.

Whether or not one is concerned with achieving any certain resonant frequency figure, a stiff self-damped arm tube (Geoffrey Owen claims his Helius arms are self-damped by means of their differential mass design) or externally applied damping is highly advisable, and all cartridges benefit from good bearings, none more so than the Decca/London. The massive amount of mechanical energy the cartridge passes down the arm tube and into those bearings is really going to put them to the test!

I have the Decca London, and use it with a Grace 747 tonearm.  Everything you've read is true.  It has a unique sonic presentation, and I haven't found anything that it doesn't play well.  
That said, you will still want to use other cartridges.  My personal favorites are the Nagaoka MP-11 Boron, and a Denon 103R.
If you keep your record clean you won't have an issues with the Decca.  I hear stylus wear is an issue, but can't comment on that as I haven't had my long enough to notice.. A sonic gem..
Norman
I was wondering the same myself, halcro. I have to reread what Art wrote, and see if the answer is in there somewhere. If it is, I missed it last night.
What intrigues me bdp24....is why the Tzar DST is so heavy whereas the Decca London Reference is so light...?

Received the January Stereophile today, and whatta ya know; in it Art Dudley reviews the Tzar DST! It seems like last months review of an old Decca was a prelude to the Tzar review. I'd love to hear one, but that's unlikely. What dealer is going to have one, let alone demo it?! Besides, I don't have 10G's sitting around for a cartridge at the moment ;-).

The only table that is of particular appropriateness for the Decca/London is the Townshend, because of the damping trough endemic to it. One thing to be aware of is that because of the cartridge's unshielded magnets, Decca/Londons can not be used on a ferrous platter, like the one on the original version of the Thorens TD-124, though the aluminum plattered Mk.2 is fine.

As for arms for the cartridge, Ken Kessler (a long-time Decca enthusiast) is happy with the SME V, others with the Well Tempered, and the Zeta is an old favorite. Geoffrey Owen of Helius Designs in the U.K. has a fair amount of experience mating his arms with the cartridges (Robert Levi has his Reference mounted on a Helius Omega Standard), and the Kuzma's seem like they should be a good match (nice stiff tube and excellent bearings), though I haven't heard one way or the other. Art Dudley thought the Rega 300 was good enough for the Decca Maroon (spherical stylus) he just reviewed, but the cartridge deserves better. In fact, the best you can afford, just like any other great cartridge!

If you choose to live under the oppression of the illusion of tonearm/cartridge matching....there is precious little analogue joy ahead of you,
For those enlightened few who possess tone arms with interchangeable headshells....simply select a good wood one like the Yamamotos or Ortofons for metal-bodied cartridges and metal headshells for plastic-bodied ones. Stay clear of carbon fibre...😱

Of far more importance for the Decca London Reference cartridge as bdp24 says....is the loading.
15K-22K Ohms Resistance together with 220pF Capacitance is about right......and this is far from the standard 47K and 0pF most phono stages are set for.
Attemtion to proven physics will reward more than the belief in voodoo superstition...🙈
Thanks for your responses. I have read that SME arms are a good match, any thoughts about that ? Or, as bdp24 says, is it best to specifically outfit arm and table for these cartridges?

Art Dudley talks about the Decca cartridge in the December Stereophile (I would provide a link, if only I knew how!). His review is of an older model, and the current London's are considerably improved, from the entry-level Super Gold to the Reference. They all put out 5mV, needing no more than 40dB or so of gain, and are best loaded with 15k to 22k Ohms resistance and 220pF capacitance (which electrically damps the design's high-frequency resonance). George Couness provides a 15k Ohm input on his Zesto phono amp specifically for the Decca/London!

As halcro, I too dislike unipivots, though they are recommended for the Londons by their maker. The cartridge has no suspension to speak of, so some form of damping is found beneficial by many users. Whether the chosen arm does or does not offer damping, it had better have a very stiff arm tube and chatter-free bearings, as the Londons put a LOT of mechanical energy into the arm. As Warren Gregoire told me, any arm that's good with a contemporary mc will be fine for the London.

I prefer the cartridge to all others by such a large degree (again, as halcro said, it is by far the most alive---I like the old Gordon Holt term "immediate"---sounding design I've heard), that I picked not just my arm to best suit it, by my turntable as well. The Townshend Rock could have been designed specifically for the cartridge, as it provides mechanical damping right at the source---the headshell. A side benefit is that the Rock's "outrigger" hardware adds 11 grams mass to the cartridge's 6 grams, aiding in balancing the arm and achieving a good resonant frequency, which is tricky---the cartridge's compliance in the lateral and vertical planes differ considerably.    

I have the London Decca Reference
http://i.imgur.com/KNDkQoV.jpg
and Jonathan Valin fairly nailed it in his review late 2008
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/london-reference-phono-cartridge/
I don’t hold with all the current theories and folk-lore about cartridge and tonearm matching.
In my experience of a dozen tonearms and over 70 cartridges of all types.....I have HEARD the results of supposedly ’kosher’ and ’unkosher’ combinations and it is my view that the very best tonearms will work with every single cartridge regardless of weight and compliance. Because of the different cartridge body materials utilised by manufacturers....the headshell material of the tonearm greatly affects the ’matching’ to the tonearm.
Because most modern high-end tonearms don’t have interchangeable headshells, the majority of high-end audiophiles are at the mercy of poor cartridge/headshell compatibility.....NOT tonearm compatibility.
So I have my Decca London Ref mounted on my Dynavector DV-507/II which is a mighty weighty arm with extreme rigidity (particularly in the horizontal plane).
None of my arms utilises damping and three of the unipivots I owned which used it were a PITA 😡
The Decca London is one of the lightest cartridges I have owned so you will need a counterweight and arm which can balance this.

When I first mounted it, it certainly DID emphasise many more clicks and pops than I was ever aware of on my favourite discs. But after 10 hours or so of run-in....this flaw diminished.
What it also does is reveal any damaged groove wall on a particular disc......damage which is not revealed by any other cartridge.
But this has occurred (so far) only on my favourite 45 year-old test record...and only on a few grooves.
I think this may be the genesis of the ’myth’ that the Decca London "grinds out record grooves"....
It is also true that it picks up groove dirt and dust faster than others and it will repay you handsomely if you brush, dip in Magic Eraser and finally Onzow ZeroDust after every side.
The only shortcoming of the cartridge which may bother some, is its narrow soundstage.
There is plenty of soundstage depth but any width beyond your speakers is unrealised terrain.

That being said.....the Decca London Reference is perhaps the most ’alive’ cartridge you will hear. It is much more aligned to the great vintage MMs of the past in that respect, than to modern LOMCs and that pleases me enormously. 
Everyone speaks of its amazing midrange but it is certainly no slouch in the bass department...😍
For demanding classical recordings.....whether individual instruments, trios and quartets or full-blown orchestral extravaganzas.....it is unsurpassed in my experience.