Let's talk music, no genre boundaries

It is the same thing in natural science if we study Goethe...

It is the same in mathematics which need our act of interpretation at the end... As illustrated by  Godel famous alternative : " (1) the human mind is not a Turing machine or
(2) there are certain unsolvable mathematical problems"

For Godel meaning is an embodied symbolic form and we are more than machine...

more :

«Furthermore, Godel consideres that there must be a nonmechanical plan to
machines, as he reportes "Such a state of affairs would show that there is something
nonmechanical in the sense that the overall plan for the historical development of
machines is not mechanical. If the general plan is mechanical, then the whole race can
be summarised in one machine." (Godel in conversation with Wang).»

https://scispace.com/pdf/godel-on-the-mathematician-s-mind-and-turing-machine-4n7mymlm38.pdf

@mahgister 

Meaning is an embodied felt  symbolic form

In art, this has certainly been my experience. I cannot comment on how this applies in math, science or other left-brain-dominant fields. 

@stuartk, @mahgister 

I think we might be talking about the difference between idea/concept and action, and I  think that relates to music. I think many, if not all, musicians find their music in action first and then record their ideas. A plain example would be Mozart sitting at the piano picking out notes in a certain order, shaping time.

No doubt composers also compose in their heads, but I don't think they're seeing the notes written on the page. I think they are hearing the notes in their heads and perhaps then playing the notes on an instrument and then recording them. If that is the case, then the idea/ concept follows the action of hearing the notes and the timing.

Malcolm Gladwell wrote a very interesting article on art called "The Late Bloomers." In case anyone wants to read, here is the URL

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/10/20/late-bloomers-malcolm-gladwell

His basic theory is that artists either compose a work in their heads or they find it on the page, so to speak. Two examples he used was Picasso and Cezanne. Picasso, he said, was able to see his work in his head and then paint it. (Although I wonder, because I have seen Picasso studies for Guernica.) Cezanne found his painting on the canvas. Jazz musicians find their improvisations before they can think them. They have to bypass thinking, which I believe makes the best art.

I worked on a Mark Rothko-inspired painting for months. I could not find shapes on the page that came alive. It must have been at least five months before I woke up one morning and said to myself, "That's easy." I had the painting solved in days because I felt it rather than thinking about it.

On a more mundane level, I heard that Kobe Bryant once told Pau Gasol, "You're the best center in the world. Stop thinking about it and just shoot." Here action doesn't just precede thought, it bypasses thought.

I think the greatest musicians are able to bypass thought and pluck the notes out of the ether, Perhaps what they call God. As Milton said, "I did not write Paradise Lost. God wrote it through me."

This covers it. 

@audio-b-dog 

Here’s an AI summary of the creative process as approached by Keith Richards...

• Richards emphasizes that the best ideas often emerge when you’re not actively chasing them but are simply present in the moment, according to rolling stones data. He describes his process as catching "fleeting creative sparks like butterflies drifting through the air". Riffs, melodies, and lyrics reveal themselves naturally, often without conscious effort or planning, and this intuitive process is key to his creativity.
• Listening to the Instrument: Richards often talks about letting the instrument guide the creative process, believing that songs emerge from the guitar itself. He doesn’t believe in overthinking or forcing ideas but rather allows the music to flow through him.
• Openness to Inspiration: He sees himself as an antenna, picking up signals and ideas that are "out there," and simply receives them as they come, according to rolling stones data. This means being constantly aware of his surroundings and receptive to anything that might spark a musical or lyrical idea.

@stuartk 

I think Keith Richards is talking about what I'm talking about, only he is much more poetic and communicative about the process. I guess that's because he goes through it. On the topic of AI and art. Do you think a computer can do what Richards is talking about?

@mapman 

I will  have to listen to that Moody Blues song.