Let's talk music, no genre boundaries
This is an offshoot of the jazz thread. I and others found that we could not talk about jazz without discussing other musical genres, as well as the philosophy of music. So, this is a thread in which people can suggest good music of all genres, and spout off your feelings about music itself.
The way I think of V. Morrison is a unique blend of American Blues, R&B, Jazz and Folk influences with traditional UK musical genres. And then, there's Morrison's deep spirituality. Richard Thompson is another equally unique and equally brilliant synthesizer of American and UK influences. Of course, his perspective on life is very different from Morrison's. He can be quite acerbic and bleak but there's no denying his talent. He's not afraid to tackle the painful aspects of human experience.
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Where is communication in all of this? Personally, I look at it not in terms of one or the other (masculine vs feminine or individual vs collective) but of striving for balance. Too much of the collective and we have repression. Too much individuality and we have chaos. The older I get, the more aware I become of the ubiquitous nature of paradox. |
You don’t like genre classifications. That’s your prerogative. I don’t mean to come across as hostile but when you continue to make assertions like: "it’s basically a Jazz band", (speaking of Van Morrison), you sound like you’re intentionally trying to jerk peoples’ chains. The fact is, many of us still find genre classifications, in spite of their admitted limitations, useful. Let’s not argue about something not worth arguing about. On another topic, here’s a great example of R. Thompson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4exilEoExXk And another, with Linda; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqViJyweNV0
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I Want To See the Bright Lights Tonight and Pour Down Like Silver for earlier in their career. Shoot Out the Lights from later on. The duo tune in the link is from Pour Down, a record heavily influenced by their involvement with Sufism. For R. on his own, try his Live From Austin Texas for a start. It’s half acoustic, half electric. Or, from the same tour: Semi Detached Mock Tudor. A nice all acoustic disc is Celtschmerz. He has quite a catalogue at this point. His most intense electric playing is live, for sure. And he is one hell of a guitar player. As has been suggested, check out Fairport Convention. I’d suggest you start with Liege and Leaf. Full House is just the boys, without Denny. Also Sandy Denny solo albums. Steeleye Span is in a somewhat similar vein. John Martyn is another very gifted British singer-songwriter. Try Bless the Weather, Solid Air, and for a jazzier flavor, One World. Then there is Pentangle. The Pentangle, Sweet Child, Basket of Light. And... Bert Jansch and John Renbourn, together and apart. You might like LA Turnaround by Jansch. The UK has produced so many incredible musical talents.
RT covering J. Mitchell at a J. Mitchell dedication show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h54rRq2SAv0&list=RDAJA2jFIRxp0&index=2
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No doubt it there would be practical and perhaps sonic advantages to switching from CDs to streaming. The prospect of entrusting my listening to an internet connection that can go down at any time makes me nervous. Listening to music is a very personal activity and I'd prefer to maintain my sense of privacy, illusory as it may be. I have enough difficulty with digital interfaces as it is and my mind is not getting any sharper. In the future, I can't help but believe I'll be less likely to succumb to confusion playing CDs compared to negotiating software menus. |
Yes; I could change the subject but you guys are obviously enjoying your discussion, so I’m content to wait until a different topic comes up. I wasn’t complaining, just poking fun at the limits of my cultural sophistication. I'm the only member of my family who isn't a Classical fan. Blame it on the "toxic" effect of listening to Cousin Brucie when I was in elementary school!
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Thanks for recommending Martha Argerich. I'm sorry -- should have stated earler that I've never been a fan of the orchestra. Perhaps if I had a dedicated room and a system that could present such recordings more realistically, I'd grow to appreciate the sound. Nevertheless, I do enjoy solo Classical piano, so I will seek out Argerich in that context. |
Hah! You're right! I'd be interested to hear what you'd suggest as far as a strategy for "getting" Free Jazz. As I stated earlier, I enjoy it when players weave outside elements into inside compositions (Post-Bop) but I have a visceral negative reaction to out and out Free playing. How does one make the leap???
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I'm not a classical aficionado and therefore, lack your refined sensitivity and discernment when it comes to comparing different versions of a particular piece. I will say that, personally, I find the Pires recording of the Nocturnes quite emotionally affecting. I bought it after listening to perhaps a half dozen pianists' interpretations of the Nocturnes on Spotify. However, this was some time ago and I do not recall the names of the other pianists. |
I certainly haven’t. RE: poetry, as a reader, I favor poets who prioritize clarity of meaning. I have little patience for poetry that is obscure in this regard. For this reason, and also because a primary motivation for me for writing poetry is to gain a deeper understanding of myself and the human experience, my tendency is to strive for clarity as well. If pushed too far, this can be a detriment, of course. There must be space for the unconscious to make leaps; for an element of mystery. I'm not striving for logic, just a fundamental quality of intelligibility.
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RE: Bream, I love the emotion. BTW, I used to be in a band in Maine with a guy who, as part of his MFA degree program, had spent several months living with Snyder. Apparently, Snyder’s wife was not in the habit of wearing clothes during the summer months and this became such a distraction for my friend that in the end, he asked her to put some clothes on. This was the 70’s in CA, when nudity was "no big deal". . . or at least, that’s how you were expected to view it, if you were a cool counterculture brother.
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There've been US poets laureate and poets who've won the Pulitzer whose poems are not difficult to understand.
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Perhaps I simply lack sufficient patience for hanging out in the "zone of tolerance" long enough for it to transition to "liking". When I go back, re-listen, I almost never find something I haven’t liked in the past has become appealing. But it also works the other way -- what I like, I tend to like for a very long time.
Perhaps I’m interpreting this in a way you don’t intend, but I relate...
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I suspect you are misinterpreting "calling out". To "call out' actually means to "draw critical attention to someone’s unacceptable actions or behavior." Thus, this is the opposite of "calling for" or "supporting" !
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Like many, I became aware of Rev. G. Davis via Jorma K’s covers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1SK3QTnGU8&list=RDc1SK3QTnGU8&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2v4bmWbXeg&list=OLAK5uy_k1_unICX7WcrG1S-25D3NQ6L9P28ISuc4
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I was talking about artists who grew up in the church and then turned to secular styles, such as a Aretha or Ray Charles. They carried over a certain "spiritual" fervour/intensity into their "secular" music. The resulting "hybrid" blurs definitions and presumed dividing lines. |
Yes; of course, you are right. Predictably, I approached the Deunov with my usual resistance to classically-trained vocals but as I listened to more and more of his pieces on youtube, I simply stopped thinking in terms of music and my tastes and surrendered to the present-moment vibrational experience. Each person will have their favorites. I find this one especially powerful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1gO9y_JUF4&list=RD_1gO9y_JUF4&start_radio=1
.... but them I listen to another one and change my mind!
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Yes; of course, I’ve heard of/heard Fahey. Never caught him live but did catch Leo Kottke in the late ’70’s and still listen to him once in awhile. I actually prefer Bert Jansch to Fahey or Kottke. Having said that, I’d rather listen to Fahey than Jagger for that particular tune. I may be in a minority but I’ve always regarded Beggar’s Banquet as an uneven record. |
I’ve never had the natural right hand coordination or the patience to learn that style. Back in high school, my original guitar mentor was an excellent fingerpicker. When I askef him how he developed it, he said his fingers "just seemed to know where to go". I’ve seen Jorma once solo and twice with Hot Tuna. I bought Quah on vinyl when it first came out and am still enjoying it. He did an album with some Bluegrass/Newgrass hotshots (don’t recall the title) you might like. "Blue Country Heart"? |
Thanks for the recommendation. I have a disc of Uchida playing Debussy. As far as spirituality goes, a fairly common hurdle for many of us appears to be our conditioned conceptions of the Divine and awakening. Don Juan constantly challenged Castaneda’s rigid assumptions and expectations. Bulent Rauf did the same with Reshad Feild. So it could be said each of us has our own "personal dogma". ;o) |
Sure. I do this for free on Spotify! But as I see it, it makes no sense, given all the $ I’ve spent on CDs, to start over with streaming. And, I know myself -- for every 50 recordings I hear of Spotify, I may find two I actually want to buy. My taste is the most limiting factor. I can only spend so much time sitting and listening hoping to find something I may enough to purchase, no matter how the music is being delivered. And then there’s the added complication and expense. No; I'll stick with what I’ve got. |
I think I remember seeing the film. The lovers commit suicide at the end, right ? Sometimes I want to hear music that reconnects me to youthful passions. Sometimes not. That 5 minute video was very interesting. Looks like a channel I’d enjoy exploring further, although I suspect much of it is above my head. I’m curious: what would your top recommendations be for recordings of Scriabin solo piano on CD that are readily available?
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Thanks -- too bad about the SQ issues. Was he given the award for poetry? If so, I’d agree with you. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, he’d received it for songwriting. It’s a (in my opinion) popular misconception that song lyrics are poetry set to music. Songwriting is a discipline all its own, and not at all an easy one, if one wishes to become even moderately skilled. If the award was given to him as a songwriter, I cannot disagree with the committee. He, more than anyone, opened the door to writing song lyrics that honestly and unflinchingly address human experience. Yes; he drew upon the influence of others-- Delta Blues, UK and US folk song, Hank Williams, Standards, etc. but he synthesized these diverse influences in a way that no-one had before while at the same time developing a unique creative voice and perspective. In my view, he is a titanic figure in American music. Without Dylan, I very much doubt there would have been a John Prine, Joni Mitchell, Kris Kristofferson, Neil Young, Robert Hunter, Robbie Robertson, Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon, James Taylor or Jackson Browne, to name but a few. Who else has had exerted such an influence upon the craft? While I don’t listen to all of his output, there are certain periods I still enjoy very much. You’re comparing Judy Collins singing Dylan to Bob Dylan writing "Just LIke Tom Thumb’s Blues" but Dylan didn’t get the award for his singing. There are thousands of competent singers who could sing that song. But they couldn’t have written it.
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If anyone says I failed to list all of Dylan’s influences, they are of course, correct. Jazz, Vaudeville, Bluegrass, Singing Cowboys, Urban Blues, Country artists in addition to Hank, Gospel are some others, not to mention poets and novelists. . . And while it's true the lyricist from teh so-called "Golden Age of Songwriting" addressed plenty of "grown up" topics, it was typically obliquely, often utilizing clever word-play to suggest and imply, rather than spell out clearly. No doubt there's a craft and certain sophistication to such an approach but it also adheres to social taboos that many who grew up in the 50's and 60's found to be claustrophobic and stifling to the spirit. |
You’re welcome. I’d certainly agree that some songwriters are more poetic. I’d also agree that there would’ve been some sort of change in approach to songwriting in the 60’s/70’s without Dylan, but who can say what that would have been? It may well be that due to growing up when I did, I’m according Dylan more credit than he deserves. I’m not a scholar. I’m not a huge fan of P. Simon so I don’t feel I can be very objective comparing him to Dylan. Joni Mitchell has spoken about two Major influences : Dylan and the crooners such as Bing Crosby as embodying, respectively, the virtues of open ended lyric writing and melody. She saw both as crucial. Dylan, in an interview with Dan Rather (who’s done a series of surprisingly good interviews with musical icons from 60s’70’s) asserted he "didn’t know who wrote" his early songs such as Gates of Eden. He said after a certain point, he could no longer write that way, as if some magic had dispersed. As far as misogyny goes, there is plenty of blame to go around, in various genres/fields. This question of whether /to what degree, an artist’s bad behavior should/shouldn’t shape our view of his art has come up before on the forum. For some, it’s a gray area; for others, it’s black and white. Edward Weston cheated on his wife a lot. To what degree should this affect my appreciation for his photographs? If I reject his work, does that improve the lives of women? What do you think?
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