2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
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jank
17 posts
 
toddalin

I can hear the difference on my PC speakers, good job with the presentation. And I like Heil AMTs, very smooth and easy to listen to.

carlsbad's avatar
carlsbad
1,551 posts
 

People tend to focus too much on the amp.  If I had to way which one is more important I'd say preamp.  An amp can't do much with a bad signal in.  GIGO.  

If your preamp throws a blanket over the sound it sends to the amp, you're screwed.  Now you have an amplified blanket covered signal.  Changing amps will indeed change the sound of the garbage out.  It will be different garbage. 

I'm leaning toward integrated amps in the tube world.  the simplest preamps tend to be transparent and allow the amp to show what it can do and integrated amps often keep it very simple--especially the ones with only one input.  

Jerry

cakids
166 posts
 

@larry5721

Perhaps @willgolf is the wife. Or perhaps he has an understanding husband. Or perhaps he (she) is unattached. Or perhaps it was the partner that urged the $50k purchase.

Most likely to me: $$$ in this range are largely insignificant in @willgolf’s life - at least for audio purchases.

jfuquay
104 posts
 

Here’s how I think of it. In a lab, sound waves hit a microphone, are converted to electrical signals, travel to a preamp/amp, where they are amplified, and measured. In human experience, sound waves hit an ear drum, continue to the inner ear, where they are converted to electrical signals, and travel to the brain, where they are …. What? Heard? Imagined? Interpreted? Measurements are helpful, but the final measure is what each person hears. It’s all in your head, after all.

lous's avatar
lous
196 posts
 

Folks, it doesn't matter what sounds like what! I know people who's stereos would send most people running out of the listening room holding their ears because the listener has hearing damage in the high frequency area. IF YOU ENJOY X, THEN LISTEN AWAY, but bashing others is just a demonstration of your frailties. You are so insecure that you try to beat up others who do not share your experience. There are many reasons why others may not agree with you. Their hearing may be better or worse than yours, their system may have better or worse resolution than yours, etc. Ultimately bashing others for enjoying things differently than you is just silly. I used to bash people who enjoyed lower resolving systems, who mocked those who with better resolving systems talking about the impact of this or that on their systems, but I finally figured out that we should celebrate that others enjoy audio rather than trying to belittle them for choices beyond that baseline. Frankly most things that others claim have improved their sound I once denounced myself. I too read Stereo Review and unfortunately paid attention to Julian Hersh's bunk. His "preferring" a Mark Levinson amp tells me that he was hearing differences, but understood that if he didn't validate his readers choices, they would not continue to read Stereo Review. Back when The Absolute Sound and Stereophile magazines were not taking advertisements, they didn't even agree about what equipment sounded best. Preference, politics, which manufactures would allow them to extort them into giving the reviewer gear, or insanely low prices on gear, who knows? They failed though because if they bashed an expensive piece of audio gear that someone already bought, they would stop reading the magazine. Politics aside, some love beef, others love beans, some love both, still others don't care for either. None are wrong folks!

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