i would not sink more $$ into your adcom--for your stated budget you can find a nice parasound, ps audio or the like which should be a significant upgrade. the rogue also looks very compelling (i like their power amps), tho i haven't heard it myself.
Keep Adcom GFP-750 or Replace
Hi all.
I am in the process of going through my system and updating it a bit. The process started about a year ago when I decided it was time to burn everything on CD to FLAC so I could easily access it. I ended up with a Jriver Id as a music server and upgrading from my old Bel Canto Dac 1 to a Schiit BiFrost Multibit. Recently my Magnepan 3.5's started to delaminate so they are off at Magnepan being rebuilt. Finally, my Sunfire Amp is about 20 years old, so it is going off to Bill Flanery to get serviced and caps replaced. So my system as it sits looks like this:
Pioneer Elite CD Transport
Jriver Id
Rega Planar 1 to a Schiit Mani Phono Pre
Bose Soundtouch Wireless Link Adapter (Please don't laugh, it was the only reasonably priced streamer for Amazon music and Spotify with an optical out. It pained me to give them my money).
Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC
Schiit Loki EQ
Adcom GFP 750 Preamp
NHT X2 Crossover
Rythmik F15HP Subwoofer
Sunfire Stereo Amp
Magnepan 3.5 (using Revel F36s until they come back)
Monster HTS-3500 power controller
Wireworld Cables
My room is pretty large, approximately 21x21 with a cathedral ceiling and open to other rooms. It is bit lively, but I am installing some GIK panels to help mellow it out. I listen mostly to classic rock, but it can go from classical to rap depending on my mood. I historically like a more laid back sound, for speakers Magnepan and Vandersteen have always hit the mark closest. I do not do a lot of serious listing anymore, often I run the streamer. It is only once every couple of weeks that I really sit down to listen. I am also not a big vinyl person.
So I am now looking at my 20 year old Adcom and that parts are becoming NLA and that it really probably needs a refresh which will run $500-600 (perhaps it will be an upgrade because replacement parts will be better, but impossible for me to tell). In the alternative, it looks like I could get about $700 for the Adcom and not spend the money shipping it and getting it fixed, so if I bought something else, it would put me in the $1200-1300 budget range. So I have been looking and come up with:
1) Emotiva XSP-1- Hits a lot of boxes on features I would like. It has a built in crossover so I could ditch the NHT X2. It has a remote trigger so I can turn the pre-amp on an everything else comes on (yes I am getting lazy). It has a processor loop for my Loki. It has a built in phono preamp, so one less box. I am just not sure if it will hit where I want on the sound spectrum, which is a bit laid back.
2) Rogue Audio RP-1- Looks like the sound profile I like and has a built in phono preamp. Used it would likely be in my budget.
3) Schiit Saga or Freya- I really like these guys, they have gotten back to the idea of audio doesn't have to cost a fortune and should be fun. I am really intrigued by their amps, but am unsure which one if I get one. I like the Freya allows me to run as solid state or tubed. I have the ability to run balanced from the preamp to crossover to amp, but never have bothered and not sure it is worth the extra.
Also, I have to have a remote for volume and am not interested in a passive preamp (I find it just doesn't have the drive when I run the Adcom in passive mode). Thoughts, guidance, suggestions?
Thank you.
I am in the process of going through my system and updating it a bit. The process started about a year ago when I decided it was time to burn everything on CD to FLAC so I could easily access it. I ended up with a Jriver Id as a music server and upgrading from my old Bel Canto Dac 1 to a Schiit BiFrost Multibit. Recently my Magnepan 3.5's started to delaminate so they are off at Magnepan being rebuilt. Finally, my Sunfire Amp is about 20 years old, so it is going off to Bill Flanery to get serviced and caps replaced. So my system as it sits looks like this:
Pioneer Elite CD Transport
Jriver Id
Rega Planar 1 to a Schiit Mani Phono Pre
Bose Soundtouch Wireless Link Adapter (Please don't laugh, it was the only reasonably priced streamer for Amazon music and Spotify with an optical out. It pained me to give them my money).
Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC
Schiit Loki EQ
Adcom GFP 750 Preamp
NHT X2 Crossover
Rythmik F15HP Subwoofer
Sunfire Stereo Amp
Magnepan 3.5 (using Revel F36s until they come back)
Monster HTS-3500 power controller
Wireworld Cables
My room is pretty large, approximately 21x21 with a cathedral ceiling and open to other rooms. It is bit lively, but I am installing some GIK panels to help mellow it out. I listen mostly to classic rock, but it can go from classical to rap depending on my mood. I historically like a more laid back sound, for speakers Magnepan and Vandersteen have always hit the mark closest. I do not do a lot of serious listing anymore, often I run the streamer. It is only once every couple of weeks that I really sit down to listen. I am also not a big vinyl person.
So I am now looking at my 20 year old Adcom and that parts are becoming NLA and that it really probably needs a refresh which will run $500-600 (perhaps it will be an upgrade because replacement parts will be better, but impossible for me to tell). In the alternative, it looks like I could get about $700 for the Adcom and not spend the money shipping it and getting it fixed, so if I bought something else, it would put me in the $1200-1300 budget range. So I have been looking and come up with:
1) Emotiva XSP-1- Hits a lot of boxes on features I would like. It has a built in crossover so I could ditch the NHT X2. It has a remote trigger so I can turn the pre-amp on an everything else comes on (yes I am getting lazy). It has a processor loop for my Loki. It has a built in phono preamp, so one less box. I am just not sure if it will hit where I want on the sound spectrum, which is a bit laid back.
2) Rogue Audio RP-1- Looks like the sound profile I like and has a built in phono preamp. Used it would likely be in my budget.
3) Schiit Saga or Freya- I really like these guys, they have gotten back to the idea of audio doesn't have to cost a fortune and should be fun. I am really intrigued by their amps, but am unsure which one if I get one. I like the Freya allows me to run as solid state or tubed. I have the ability to run balanced from the preamp to crossover to amp, but never have bothered and not sure it is worth the extra.
Also, I have to have a remote for volume and am not interested in a passive preamp (I find it just doesn't have the drive when I run the Adcom in passive mode). Thoughts, guidance, suggestions?
Thank you.
32 responses Add your response
I would actually recommend keeping the Adcom. If you want to stay with SS, I don't think you can do better with the upgraded/refreshed Adcom for $1200, especially if you spin vinyl. I would switch only if you want to try a tube preamp. I've owned mine since new and use it mostly for vinyl and I think it still sounds amazing. |
I fall somewhere in between loomisjohnson and kalali… The Adcom is a fine sounding pre and I certainly don’t believe that a current Parasound or PS will be a significant upgrade, but I do believe that with trying other things you might find a different taste that is pleasing to you. I can see you preferring something else, but the Adcom is a solid performer. Overall, I believe that the Adcom is worth a revamp of a few hundred dollars and I believe that you can get it done for that however, if it came to $1200 for a refresh, I’d be looking at other pre’s myself. I ran across this link and came back and edited to add this. Even includes a parts list to upgrade your pre, it might be worth doing the upgrade yourself. https://hoppesbrain.com/2017/03/11/adcom-gfp-750-upgrade/ |
Thanks for the suggestions. I looked at the hoppesbrain and liked his stuff. He is not taking new orders and had a year long waiting list before that. I am about the world’s worst at soddering, so won’t try it myself as damage is almost inevitable. I am leaning towards the Freya as it can run solid state or tube and has a 5 year warranty. The power switch on the back is also a potential upside as it keeps curious people during parties from putting on their own demos. |
Great link, hadn't seen it before. Thanks for sharing. I might actually consider rolling up my sleeves and do it myself if its just a matter of desoldering/resoldering new components. I'd be curious to hear your feedback on how the Freya compares with the 750. The tube section will probably warm up the tone so that by itself might be worth a try. You can always return in within 15 days if you don't hear much improvement. I do occasionally switch my 750 with my Aric Audio tube preamp from a different system and the tube line stage does sound more inviting and more musical but I still like the phono stage in the 750 better. I'm a little surprised you're using the Mani instead of the 750 phono stage but if you just need a line stage, I'd seriously consider Aric's Unlimited for just a couple of hundred dollars more than the Freya, assuming you don't need balanced outputs. It's a very good all-tube preamp. |
I've owned a few Adcom preamps over the years (most recently sold my last one maybe 6 or 7 years ago and it had balanced outs, although I can't remember the model) and they work fine, but last year I bought a Freya just to see what's what as they're so inexpensive, and now I absolutely think the Freya is "mo fun"...it's paired with a little Dennis Had single ended amp. I now have accumulated piles of 6SN7GTB tubes and am enjoying every Schiit minute. It is interesting that Schiit's "local" CA operation cranks out some embarrassingly (to other manufacturers anyway) inexpensive items that, in my recent experience anyway, work beautifully. I bought a Loki around the same time as the Freya and although it is by far the least expensive item in my gear heap, it's an astonishingly useful and well designed little EQ...again...there's absolutely no (especially USA made) gear like it or the Freya out there at anything approaching the cost of either one. |
I would ditch the Adcom and get a real piece of high end gear. I owned an Adcom amp & preamp (their best at the time) and didn't think it was anything special. There is a lot better out there. I would not waste 1200.00 on any preamp having it updated, let alone an Adcom. That Rogue RP-1 preamp is an excellent preamp. I had the bigger brother, the RP-5 and loved it. In a test report, it was said that the RP-1 at 1500.00 was 85% of the RP-5 at 3500.00. BTW, their phono stage is excellent and you can tube roll to your hearts content. Plus, you get a 3 year warranty by a company that takes care of its customers. |
@stereo5 even though I agree with you that the Rogue RP-1 is a great preamp and I think that it is a good recommendation, but If you had ANY other Adcom preamp other than the GFP750 what you heard is not any comparison. All other Adcom models are pale in comparison and cannot be compared in the same league. |
mcreyn, If you decide to sell the 750, let me know. I'm also interested in the Freya. If you get one I'd also like to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks. Jim |
Leaning towards the Freya, but also eyeballing the Cary SL-100, which has a tape loop and trigger to turn everything on. Concerned about the amount of gain though as the Cary has 26db of gain and 63db of volume adjustment. As is I don’t hit unity gain on my current preamp, so would be limited to about 30db of volume adjustment on the Cary. |
I don’t know if this allowed (if not, I’m sure it will be deleted) I know somebody who is selling a Burmester 057 pre/pro for very cheap money. He bought from the original owner and it was used in a second home with VERY VERY low hours. He uses it only as a 2.1 system and I personally know it sounds terrific! I like the fact that you can control the sub output with the remote. The MRSP w/optional remote was $25,000...he wants $2.000. It is as new condition with original box, packing and manual. I wish I had the $$$, but just bought a Harley and the wife says “enough”! |
Well, I'm so sorry, just checked and mine is actually a GFP-565.... have no idea why I thought it was a GFP-750, maybe because I rarely use this upstairs system for vinyl. You can ignore my specific comments but it sounded like the upgrade cost was around $500 not $1200 according to OP's original post thus my recommendation, albeit moot given the mix up. Again I apologize for the confusion. |
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An Update. Bought a Schiit Freya, as I have been very happy with their other components. I purchased the upgraded Tung Sol tubes from the factory. It has been running about 4 hours, but based on my impressions so far, it will be going back. My initial notes (including swapping the 750 back in and out to make sure I wasn't nuts). 1) Where did my gain go? The Adcom if anything has too much gain. The Freya in passive seems to to missing about 3-6 db in passive and jfet mode from the Adcom (to where I was maxing the volume on quieter CD's, something I have never done with the Adcom). This is with XLR connections in and out. 2) Despite being rated at 14db gain for the tube stage (same as my Adcom), the jump from passive to tube is much smaller than the adcom from passive to active. I don't mind that, and prefer it, but I am wondering if they changed it from the initial design. I had emailed them about the gain in tube asking if it was the same for XLR and RCA (they said 14db for both), it is not. It is 6db less for RCA, same as my adcom. 3) Sound: a) Passive- Unoffensive, lacking dynamics, and a bit veiled. The Adcom sounds like someone just removed grunge in comparison when in active and has better dynamics in passive. b) Active- I am grouping these, as from my initial listen, aside from volume the Jfet mode and tube mode sound very close. Dynamics are much improved from the passive mode and about the equivalent of the GFP-750 in passive mode. The grain is better, but still there, and there is some midrange shoutiness. Soundstage may be slightly better than the Adcom, but my room has some imaging problems I am still working on. Overall the Adcom is blacker, you hear into the music further and when in active mode, it has much stronger dynamics (which is a good thing for maggies). I am going to let it run in for another 24 hours to see if there are any significant changes, but as of right now, I am not excited about it. I was really looking forward to trying this preamp and had high hopes. |
Update 2.
I thought is might be a level matching thing, so pulled out the SPL meter and matched with pink noise on a tripod to .5 db. Then left both running, swapping XLR's on the input and output. In comparison in active mode for the Adcom and tube mode for the Freya (arguably the best sounding in the Freya), the Adcom was harmonically much richer, had a much blacker background, no grain, and to put it bluntly, kicked the Freya in its nuts and told it go back. I have emailed Schiit for an RMA, but also brought up how much of a difference in sound as I almost think there is something wrong with the one I got.
Just to be sure, I am going to have my wife and friend who could care less have a listen and single blind swap them to see if they hear a difference. If the differences are as dramatic as I believe, they should hear a difference (not saying which they may like or understand the difference). |
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I ran it for a day a half continuosly with a signal. I would expect any further breakin to be minor. Waiting to hear if Schiit finds anything wrong with it. I am also wondering if they substituted parts in the design (they were backordered for a while due to parts availability) that should’t have made a difference, but did. |
I am very late to this thread but I am a long term owner/user of both the GFP-565 and the GFP-750. The 565 has a great phono section in it (the line section is just ok). I still use the 565 as a phono preamp running into my (modded) 750 with great results. I recently thought I would update/upgrade to the highly touted iFi phono preamp, but after trying it I sent it right back. The Adcom phono section was so much better it made the iFi sound like it was broken--and my 565 is over 30 years old. |
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Hi there! This is Chris Hoppe of Hoppe's Brain. The GFP-750' passive mode is a fickle thing. The volume potentiometer has an unusually low impedance of 2Kohms, and this is difficult to drive for many source components. On the other hand, if your source component is happy driving 2K, then you get a nice and relatively low output impedance, for a passive preamp. Generally speaking, you want at least a 10:1 ratio between output impedance of your preamp, and the input of your amp. Fet and tube amps tend to have high input impedances, which makes them good candidates for passive preamps. The GFP-750 is a great design. Literally just a long-tail-pair made from mosfets, biased into their most linear region. |