Allegro, any further reviews? |
This is the edited version (believe it or not)...
The unit itself is not what I would call handsome. Silver...with way too much writing...and little silver M&M buttons on the black remote control...which although looked like a mismatch with the unit is quite hefty and solid.
I hit the "open" button to insert a CD. Noisy little bugger!
And now.....I needed to listen..although it was late and at low level......with the installed Sovtek tubes....I had no idea what to expect.....I had never heard tubes...
I always use 3 types of music as reference....a solo piano....a female vocal...and full orchestra.Added to my refernce CD's is the newly acquired "Bed of Roses" for the artillary of tricks and the sheer number of sounds.At low listening level I decided just to listen to piano first. If piano is wrong no apologies ever make it right. It sounded fine. It sounded like a piano.. But It sounded pretty much like my Arcam but slightly muffled. So what's this "Tube Sound" I'm supposed to be hearing?
Then I listened to "Bed of Roses"....and the bag of tricks on this CD seemed a bit less amazing then it had with my Arcam...
not as much detail or depth....
Then I put on Loreena McKennit....Although I love her voice it does get a bit screechy on some of her high notes , due to
close mike, maybe....but it does hit a nerve now and then.Hmmmmmm....although she sounded like she was singing under a blanket ...her voice sounded Sultry and not shrill....I immediately realized the potential here....and recognized a big difference...
If I could keep the sultry and lift the blanket.....this could be good! This could be the "Tube Sound".....
I get out the Jolida manual....I need to get the cover off and arm myself with tubes....The manual said to remove the 6 screws....
2 front....4 back...I remove them and the top doesn't budge....this isn't brain surgery....it shouldn't be that difficult....
so instead of risking breakage....what do I do? Post here.... :) ....
I take a better look......uh..hello Mr/Ms whoever you are that wrote this manual....there are *8* screws!
Fine....cover's off.
Manual: "Turn the Player with Front facing you.The Tubes are on the Left.They are under covers.
They Are??????I don't see any tubes on the left!
I'm no expert but I realllllllly think I spy them on the *Right*.
Ohhhhh!, Mr/Ms Manual writer......You mean when you are facing backwards and looking in a mirror!
I swapped lots of tubes for hours..............Suffice it to say....I did hear differences with each tube change....
...I used Loreena's voice as the Litmus test....If I could just get rid of her lisp!
I wanted to save the Sylvania 5751's till last but In goes the "prize" tubes....
First Piano.......lovely......soooooo lovely! It sounded good...*really* good.......
I'm excited......Before I knew it I had listened to the whole CD.....a good sign.......
Ok Loreena...in you go........you and that Celtic band of yours.
Velvet!!!!....it was musical velvet!!!!.Dynamic but perfectly cohesive .....Sultry but not syrup.....Smooth and seductive....
what I expect her voice is really like in person....
Gorgeous. Fluid.....effortless......
This is delicious!!! !!!!!!
I have an inkling silver IC's may be just right with this. Velvet with a touch of satin.
My main concern is always getting instruments to sound as accurate as possible...
Here is my final tally, up to this point, of Jolida vs Arcam Alpha 9:
Piano:a tie...too close to call..gorgeous on both
Guitar: Jolida...
Drums:Jolida....
Female voice:Jolida...see previous praises
Full Orchestral:Arcam by a nose
Cymbals and other sparkly things:Arcam
With the right tubes (the Sylvania 5751's, I think)this player makes gorgeous music.Just gorgeous...........
I forgive you for your homely face.
I am going to keep this Jolida.....
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Hi Distortion...
It's been a full week now...living with this Jolida....and I need music surrounding me when I am home so it has been getting quite a workout....
Muralman1 and everyone has stressed break-in so when I'm at work I leave it on repeat....
I have never heard tubes of any kind so I really didn't know what to expect....
I wrote an account of my Jolida adventure for another forum and will edit it down (it's an Epic Tale)
and will post it here tonight...... |
Whats the verdict Aleggro12? |
Kck, I've had Jolidas for so long, I forgot about that bonus. Thanks for bringing it up. I had a Sony ES before I switched, and it was night and day. |
Allegro, I sent some email my way, and it arrived next second. If the ones you are sending are not bouncing back, then there are holes in Comcast's main frames... or they have been borrowed by Ashcroft. |
OK, add one more to the JD-100 owners list. Two CDs in, I already like it a lot. I do think different tubes will be ordered; the sound is a little "fat" and plummy. Totally non-fatiguing... my rig room opens up to the kitchen and whenever my wife has been there cooking before and has the exhaust on, or the blender, or is trying to converse, she will always yell at me to turn it down (I know this doesn't happen to any of you).
With the JayDee, I have been playing these two CDs at high volume while she prepares a meal for a party tomorrow. My teenage daughter is helping her, and they are doing a lot of talking, machines running, etc, naturally. I played it loud just to get their reaction. None. None. They just raised their voices and kept talking, working, etc.
Huh? I had to ask... isn't it too loud? "Um, no?" I cranked it some more. They just kept going!
I consider this a glowing testament to at least one aspect of this player. Thru 4 CDPs, three amps, four preamps, and four speaker changes, not to mention DACs, cables, PCs, and tweaks, never have I gotten this equivalent of the ~shrug~ to loud music.
OK, Paul Simon and Alison Krauss, you may be too gentle. We shall try Moby, Radiohead, and Pink Floyd soon (cackle!). |
Muralman....
You are defintely not getting *some* of the email I'm sending you....
Maybe you have a shared email address.....
something's outta sync!
....Sunday will be a big Jolida day here... ;) |
The suspense is killing me! :) :) :) :) |
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Is there some trick to getting this cover off?
It shouldn't be this hard....and I don't want to break it! |
Or if I have to crouch behind this AV rack one more time it may be Water-On-The-Knee! ;) |
"I didn't know you had an Arcam," he sheepishly says. This will be a waterfall in the making, or it may be a Waterloo. |
Thanks, muralman...yes..I have had it on repeat since my first listen....and I am expecting the arrival of some more tubes today....
Rachmaninov & Leo Kottke are waiting in the wings! |
Ah Allegro. Hope all goes well. Leave it silent playing continuously till Sunday. The Jolida does not hit full stride till a month's playing. |
My JD-100 arrived today....it's playing as I type....
Sunday I will have lots of time to listen.....and swap tubes....
I have a bevy of tubes to play with......
........will I like it better than my Arcam Alpha CDP?
We shall see.... :) |
Can the 12au7 be used in a slot for 12ax7? I dont think so. |
Bill once told me his favorite tube was the RCA 12AU7. I believe he has that one in stock. |
The trouble with recommendations is that one should hear the Sylvania Blackplates first to familarize yourself with its "sound" and qualities before offering up its replacement. I bought my Jolida form Bill Baker but I dont know if he has heard the Joilda with the Sylvania's. Actually all these tubes have some good qualities and Im sure to some they sound fairly mellow and appealing. The Sylvania 5751 Blackplates do some things the others to not especially pitching the sound forward. Liquidity is especially important! We all chasing down tubes to get away from that dry,sterile,soul sapping digital sound. |
The RCA 12AU7 clear tops are readily available from numerous sources. The Sylvania, as plentiful as Sovteks five years ago, are nearly vanished, the demand is so high. The source I have used has only a few left, and, heartless as it may seem, I have a friend (Susan above) that I am holding my tongue for.
I have one spare pair. Both Rt008 and I are looking for a tube that will prove to be a close second. He still likes the Chinese tubes that came with the Jolida. I wonder if I can find mine? |
Where can one obtain the Sylvania 5751 triples or, is availability of these kind of a hit and miss affair? What about the RCA 12AU7s, are they readily available? |
Bill Baker of Response Audio likes the RCA 12AU7 clear top - would be worth a try.
Hey lurkers, let us know your favorites. |
If you find a substitute let us know. I am trying to track down another pair for backup. |
The Sylvania - Exactly like I hear it. I still want to find a cheap gold plate cup substitute for the Holy Grail. |
I wish I was joking. I was perfectly happy with the chinese stock tubes until I heard the Sylvania Blackplates. This tube has it all! Its smooth ,detailed,very liquid,the sounstage is huge! The RCA and the greyplates had some of these qualities but the sound was very dry and that for me is a no-no. It may be that they were cast outs from a bad batch. The Sylvania Blackplates also pitch the sound forward. This puts vocals right in your lap. That may bother some people but I love it! Also there is a nice sense of air and bloom around the instruments. This is the Holy Grail! Sell the kids,auction off the mother-in-law,steal from the collection basket,pay any price but find this tube! |
Rkt008, end their suffering, and tell them you are just joking ;-) |
My Sylvania 5751 Triple mica blackplates have finally arrived and have been cooking in my system for about 8 hours.Now this is more like it! Much better than the Sylvania grey plates or the RCA. I am wondering if the grey plates and the RCA were weeded out tubes from a larger batch. There are variables within the same make. I have read that out of every ten made usually only 4 are up to the standards needed for high quality audio. The Sylvania blackplates are the tube to get. The stock chinese tubes are my second choice. If you can find an RCA its worth a listen..... |
Mijknarf, yeah, you know it, I wouldn't have invested in the X600, if I didn't believe my Scintillas would put me in heaven. I heard my 1 ohm speakers in the mid eighties, so I had no question whether to spend a car's ransom on amps to drive them.
The irony is, my satisfaction with a sub grand front end... If it works...! |
Muralman1: Thanks for the response. You have to go up the ladder to 9/20/03 to see my comment about Sylvania Gold brand gray plate tubes, Joe's comments on AA is partially what made me decide to get these tubes. I have read some of your other posts and see that you are supporting it with Pass x600 monos (must sound super!) my Jolida is running through my Pass x250, and I couldn't be happier.
Any comments of power cords that work well on the Jolida, I need to upgrade? |
My take on the Sylvania Grey plates,RCA etc. First I should state that none of these have been burned in properly (including my JD-100 player)and that as you all know has a great effect on the sound. The Sylvania 5751's grey plates sound very transparent, very smooth, very naturally detailed and I might add very close to what I hear in the concert hall. Both the RCA bLackplates and the Sylvania sound just a touch dry ( just a touch) in my system. The chinese stock tubes so far are the winner! They are perhaps a bit more colored and less neutral but they have a liquidity and glow that for me is a walk to paradise garden.Listening to W Allyn's "Lyra Angelica" the strings were silky and so engaging and coupled with the beautful harp runs I found myself pulling away from analytical thoughts about sound and drifting into spiritual grace. I dont think anyone who prefers these classic tubes is wrong all these things as Muralman points out are system dependent. So far my quest ends where it began. The chinese tubes are the winner! Best of all (for me) they are cheap and available! |
I ordered a matched set of Siemens and Halske 5751 TRIPLE MICA tubes the other day. I was told by a local tech that the Siemens tubes are extremely good tubes; in his opinion as good as the Sylvania Gold Brand 5751's. They won't arrive until next week, but the price was decent @$60.00 for a matched pair. If anyone wants address, I know where to get more of these. |
Hi Mijkarf, I did a quick search up the ladder but couldn't find a clue word. They are the Gold Box grey plate gold pin tubes, right? Harsh? this what "Joe" had to say:
"Sylvania Gold Brand grey pl ate gold pin - OK, this is the
legend. When people talk wantonly about the famous Sylvania
Gold Brand 5751 gold pins this is the tube they are referring
to. Does it measure up to the hype? Well by and large, yes. To
my ears it is the the 2nd or 3rd best 5751 ranking up there
with the Sylvania & GE black plates. Its strength is its
midrange, but it may also be its weakness. The mids here are
full, lush, tangible and maybe (just maybe) a trifle
overblown. Occasionally i find the lush full vocals obscure
just a bit of detail and reduce transparency slightly, but the
mids are so lush I could understand how you might not care.
The tube also has a measure of life and vibrancy, similar to
the Sylvania's black plates and it also has a bit of the
forwardness that's seems to be endemic to Sylvanias in the
5751 family. I've lived with this tube enough to know I could
use it quite happily, though that would be in the context of a
fairly neutral system where its own colorations would not go
over the top. If your rig is already warm, smooth, lush and a
bit lacking in detail this guy could turn things just a touch
syrupy. But given the sound of a lot of cd based systems he
could be just the ticket... Availability on this guy is
limited. His reputation has made him a rare, if not
outrageously expensive beast (usually $30 - $40 a tube) and he
is long lived" |
You're referring to me, I have the Sylvania gold/gray plates. I have not tried the black plates (because I cannot find them) but I have heard both good and "not so good" things regarding the gray. I have a hard time believing Sylvania Gold with black are much better. My only problem with the Sylvania Gold/gray plates is the harshness I hear at moderately high volumes. My other choice is going to be RCA black plate triple mica. I'll let folks know how they differ. |
Really, that does not matter. When I made the comment about my surprise at the (who was it?) purchase of gold pin grey plates, it was for my not having found them, not that they were better in any way than the black plates. My favorite tube in the two applications I've tried them are 5751 Sylvania black plates. According to what I have read, there is no difference between these and the grey plate gold pins. |
Actually I paid 80.00 but they are not Gold Brand with the gold pins.. |
Sure thing. The last I saw, the Sylvanias were approaching a hundred dollars a pair. |
Muralman1 Thanks! I will consider the stage if and when I can find a pair in great shape. I have been checking audiogon and there hasnt been any for sale. Eventually something will show up. Still waiting for my Sylvania's to show up. |
In your system, who knows. In my system, there is no tube to compare to the Sylvania at three times the cost.
The Stage is hardly the bottom of the Apogee line. It is the last full range designed. It is also the smallest. Using stronger magnets and a new bass panel design, the Stage is a lot easier drive. There are those (me included) who will argue it is the best sounding Apogee until you get to Diva, Full Range, and Scintilla. These, along with the Duetta, are huge (5'-8'). They need a big room to fully breath. |
When Im ready to upgrade to different speakers I imagine I will find a way to land some. Not sure if I want to accept their bottow of the line though as good as they might be. The ones just up from the stage is where I will set my sights. I have been running the Jolida all day (reinserted the stock tubes) and switched the Pro-Silway MK3 interconnect to the truth-link. Also upgraded the power cord. Hard to believe the sound can get better! Allegro,get this player! I was playing some Delius and the strings were so sweet and harmonically rich it took my breath away. This is as close to a perfect piece of equipment as I have ever come across. Delicacy with immediacy. Big orchestral moments in Mahler are powerful but rounded, horns climb though the texture with bite and your just swept into the music. Hard to believe this player costs 900.! I await my Sylvania's but Im hard pressed to believe this sound can get better! |
I've shipped two pairs of big Apogees via an antiques mover, where they strapped the speakers to the side of the truck surrounded by blankets. My Stages came via Fed Ex Air untouched. That was kinda lucky. Off and on there are Apogees for sale in every area.
I sold my Stage speakers to an eager buyer in up state Idaho. We met in Winnemuca Nevada. Doing that, you can double the pick up range. |
Allegro, Thanks for the feed. Classical Music is probably the true test for a speaker. There is tremendous demand on the speaker to get so many different lines and instruments correctly. A literal smorgasboard of sounds and harmonies. I did fing some apogees for sale but they didnt want to ship them---just selling if you can pick up. Probably a major pain to box and ship. Thanks for the insight! They are on my short list.... |
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RKt008....
I have been following this thread because my next purchase will most likely be the Jolida JD100...
and not owning one yet I had nothing to add of interest until the discussion of Apogees arose...
I too, up until last year was on a mission to satisfy my obsessive quest for the speakers of my dreams...
I had thought that ultimately they would be speakers that would be priced way out of my league..
but had not, after owning perfectly acceptable speakers, and auditioning some others , found any that
moved me as I needed to be moved. I,too, am a classical music lover and attend live symphony often to have a good reference....
Muralman1 responding to a post of mine and waxed poetic about Apogees and their ability to convey
the emotion of instruments...
As luck would have it (long story) without even an audition I wound up with a pair of the Apogee Stages.
It was my lucky day....As one who always worries that just around the bend there may be a better amp...
or a better CDP or a better cable..(I can obsess with the best of 'em)..I have to say that since owning these Stages for almost a year now...I have never once entertained the thought of replacing these speakers...
I truly think If I ever did it would be to just go up the chain within the Apogee line...
They take some care ....but they reward you with blissful sound and musical satisfaction beyond description......
Apologies for hijacking this thread off-topic....
Susan |
Well well well, and my handle is Muralman.
Today I hosted a Triangle speaker/Levinson/Electrocomaniet/OTA owner. Long ago he use to have Quads. We played the Kinks, and the Greatful Dead he brought. He went away planning to get Quads again, and a Jolida 100. |
Muralman1, You flatter me! An investigator by trade? That gave me a good laugh. Im just a crazed obsessive music lover that insists on getting the sound I want just like the rest of you guys! Actually Im a well known Artist (painter) in my state. My brother is better known nationally and writes classical music reviews for the American Record Guide and the british publication Tempo. He is the one who infected me with the "Super system stereo bug". I managed to shake off the bug until I found Audiogon and now I have a full blown case of upgraditis.I think I caught reading you guys! I have put apogee on my short list should I look at speakers. Supposed to be a great speaker for Classical Music. |
Milindks, Just like Muralman1 I really dont want to reveal my source because they only had 2 in stock and I want to buy more should they prove to be the Holy Grail for my system. I spent over 8 hours on the web just to find those! If their stock was plentiful I would be more than happy to share with others.They may not even be able to pull more in anyhow. Be patient and keep searching! Good luck! |
Hi Rkt008,
Can you please let us/me know the source for Black plates or Gray plates, last time I saw black plates on ebay, someone else grabbed those.
Thanks, |
Do tell, Rkt008. Might you be an investigator by trade?
Have you guys looked up "Joe's Tube Lore" yet? I've been letting it be my loosely followed guide. |
Distortion I eagerly await both Sylvania's. I ordered the grey plates first because that's all I could find. They are due any day now. I then found some 3 mica blackplates and ordered them.Awaiting them as well. I kept the old tubes I took out of my Pre-amp and I was curious as to what make they were( I bought them before I knew anything about this stuff)and to my suprise they were westinghouse 5751's! I have heard those might have been made my Sylvania! I bought them in town at an electronic store. Is there any way to tell if they are Sylvanis's? I will follow up and let you know about the grey and black plates. Thanks for asking! |
Rkt008, please come back and let us know how you like the Sylvania's sound. |
