If you are buying the unit from Bill Baker, you better give the Jolida a month's use before calling him or he will bite your head off.
I know; having the half a brain he left me with is why I stay in this hobby. ;) |
Going with the Jolida is a very, very good step forward on your audio journey. You will simply be amazed a the improvement in all categories over your Onkyo. Good Move! |
It may be true, $500 is too low, but don't think the Jolida and the Planet are in the same league. Still, the Planet and just about anything will be better than a CD can read DVD player. |
Sure thing. The last I saw, the Sylvanias were approaching a hundred dollars a pair. |
Musicdoc, I love the JD-100 as well. I'm afraid I am wearing it out by playing it so much. There are two for sale at audiogon for $700+. Given my unit's track record, I would say a used mint Jolida is a safe buy. |
Socrates, It all depends on the tubes chosen, and how pliable your speakers are. For example, there are a lot of people that just love Mullards, but in my system I couldn't get past the noise caused by microphonics. So I chose tubes that don't suffer from microphonics. Some ATX tubes roll off the highs, and I stay away from those too. All one has to do is a little research.
The Jolida will not load up on treble transcients, if that is your pleasure. It will not give your cds that etched "high end" sound. It will give a marvelously natural sound that is so real. |
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Hi Buxter, of course there are different tubes for different folks. I am partial to old stock 5751 tubes made by Tungsol, RCA, Sylvania, GE, Raytheon, and Siemens. All of these do well in suppressing microphonics, and have good frequency extension. There is a drawback with these though. They have less gain than the 12AX7 tubes. If you feel your system already has inadequate power, this is not the tube type for you. |
Gee, this is an old thread. I had to read what I had told you first. I still have mine. I've never used The RCA 5751 triple mica. My favorite is the Sylvania, but they are becoming near impossible to find, and are pushing $100. I think I know where you can get some, but you will have to contact me privately.
I recently bought some much cheaper Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tubes to try on some one's recommendation. the mids were great, but it didn't have the extension of the 5751. There was hardly any difference in perceived loudness between the two. |
Bill Baker of Response Audio likes the RCA 12AU7 clear top - would be worth a try.
Hey lurkers, let us know your favorites. |
Distortion, I was talking about you behind your back. Shame on me.
You bring up an important point. Tube rolling will be important with the Jolida. I can see how Distortion's system benefits from the EH tubes. |
RKT008, the Jolida is a marvelout 1k player. Your amp is good. I don't know about the pre, haven't heard it. I do like line stages on most. Speakers?
Break in the RCA/Jolida for an extended time, before making a decision.
For non offending resolving systems the Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate is the best of the best. Your system might be better suited to some other tubes. This is another great thing about the Jolida, you can taylor it's sound to suit.
I have a virtually new pair of 4004 Mullards I can sell. There are those that think the Mullard is the best. My ultra sensitive speakers picked up too much microphonics on what would have been nice tubes. |
You are welcome, Rkt.
May I be so bold as to suggest a future speaker upgrade where you will not have to sacrifice even your second born?
Have you ever heard of Apogee? There are some Stage speakers with stands selling for 1k now here. Talking about a cheap treat!
Check the Apogee Stage out:
http://69.10.198.101/stage.htm |
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Mijknarf, Distortion has taught me there is no "best" tube. It's all system dependant. For my system, it is black plates or nothing.
Unless... How in the world did you come by Sylvania Grey plate gold pin tubes? That's a good find. You really can't expect more with the black plate. Congratulations.
The Electro Harmonics 12AX7 tubes have a great midrange, but are rolled off at the top. |
Well, I am looking at the Pass Labs D1 ($6000 new). (sigh)
Sovtek - your weak link? ooooh yeah. write me.
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Hey, if we keep up this dialogue, this thread might reach "What do you think?" status. |
My black plates have been burning some 600 hours with no weakening noticeable. They do have a reputation for earlier burn out than most. I have one spare pair, and a private collection where I can score one more pair. I'll be trying some cheaper and more plentiful substitutes soon. I'll let you all know how they turn out.
Distortion has already announced he likes his EH 12AX7 tubes better, because of his spirited upper treble. Svetlana isn't all that bad. Mullard works on some systems. JAN Phillips is an all rounder. None of these, I would put into my first system. |
The GE grey plate is reportedly the least of the 5751 tubes. It can be brash, and a bit less liquid. Still, not a bad tube. The Svetlanas are decent tubes, but we have been talking about far better. I'm curious about the Sovtek 5751. I have never heard a report on them. |
Given you cdp is healthy, it would have to be the tubes, or downstream components that are straining.
The words, harsh, edgy, just aren't in the Joida's vocabulary. It may be the tubes; I can't remember. There are always those pesky downstream components. Any of them may be spoiling the pot. |
I've been through Telefunken (big head, soft bass, brittle highs), Mullard 4004 (good, has some microphonics undisguised in my system), Jan Phillips (nice all around, but thin), Svetlana (bold, with good body, big head, mistimbred), Chinese (surprisingly good, soft bass, rounded attack), Sovtek (ouch), Eletro harmonix (great mids, rolled off), Sylvania Black plate (superb timbre, great attack, solid bass, black background, correct staging, huge depth, slighly forward, extended treble that may sound hard on some tweeters.)
Many ss amps and pre amps can become harsh and bright when driven hard. Non adj. volume Cd players can't. They are always pumping out the same signal. |
Are those the real Holland made Bugle Boys? That is suppose to be a super tube. The mods I heard about insert Svetlanas. The Bugle Boy raise the ante. Please let us know how they do. Real Bugle Boys, like Sylvania black plate, are also getting impossible to find. |
Not to worry, the D1 is a DAC and would require a new transport, and another pair of able interconnects. I'm not willing at this time, to put that kind of work and money into my system. I'm having too good a time now. |
The EH tube is not great for everyone. I'm no expert on pre amp tubes. I have heard that they react quite differently to tubes than do cdps. You will have to do another search for the pre amp. |
One of the traits of 5751 Sylvania is a slight forward presentation. I like that. The RCA is the favorite of most 5751 fans. However, we have discussed how tubes are system reliant. How did you find the black plates without my help? I didn't think that was possible. Good sleuthing. |
Sylvania's are forward sounding.
About Apogee, heartbreak isn't the word for it. I know many apogee owners over the land, and they are all in love with their speakers. We also rest assured our repair needs are covered. I will never own another speaker brand. |
Understood. My Apogees are the infamous Scintillas. They are a bear to run, but when they do, there are very few grand speakers to compare. British reviewer Ken Kessler has used his own pair to judge all components by. He has said, "If speaker reviews were a meal, the Scintilla is the antipsto few speakers dare follow."
The much smaller Stage is a marvel. I've owned that one too, and the Duetta Signature. The reviews at the site I gave you (didn't I?) tell the truth about all models.
There is a ribbon speaker builder down under that produces ribbons and installation instructions for all Apogee models.
Prices for mint Stages are in the $800 to $1200 range. Duetta Signatures will go for $1400 to $2000, Divas $4000 to $4500, Scintillas, only $1500 (when you can find them) plus big bucks for really big amps. I ran the Stage happily with 100 watt tube amps. The Duettas required a hundred watts more, while my Pass Labs X600 amps are giving their all powering the Scintillas. |
Do tell, Rkt008. Might you be an investigator by trade?
Have you guys looked up "Joe's Tube Lore" yet? I've been letting it be my loosely followed guide. |
Well well well, and my handle is Muralman.
Today I hosted a Triangle speaker/Levinson/Electrocomaniet/OTA owner. Long ago he use to have Quads. We played the Kinks, and the Greatful Dead he brought. He went away planning to get Quads again, and a Jolida 100. |
I've shipped two pairs of big Apogees via an antiques mover, where they strapped the speakers to the side of the truck surrounded by blankets. My Stages came via Fed Ex Air untouched. That was kinda lucky. Off and on there are Apogees for sale in every area.
I sold my Stage speakers to an eager buyer in up state Idaho. We met in Winnemuca Nevada. Doing that, you can double the pick up range. |
In your system, who knows. In my system, there is no tube to compare to the Sylvania at three times the cost.
The Stage is hardly the bottom of the Apogee line. It is the last full range designed. It is also the smallest. Using stronger magnets and a new bass panel design, the Stage is a lot easier drive. There are those (me included) who will argue it is the best sounding Apogee until you get to Diva, Full Range, and Scintilla. These, along with the Duetta, are huge (5'-8'). They need a big room to fully breath. |
Really, that does not matter. When I made the comment about my surprise at the (who was it?) purchase of gold pin grey plates, it was for my not having found them, not that they were better in any way than the black plates. My favorite tube in the two applications I've tried them are 5751 Sylvania black plates. According to what I have read, there is no difference between these and the grey plate gold pins. |
Hi Mijkarf, I did a quick search up the ladder but couldn't find a clue word. They are the Gold Box grey plate gold pin tubes, right? Harsh? this what "Joe" had to say:
"Sylvania Gold Brand grey pl ate gold pin - OK, this is the
legend. When people talk wantonly about the famous Sylvania
Gold Brand 5751 gold pins this is the tube they are referring
to. Does it measure up to the hype? Well by and large, yes. To
my ears it is the the 2nd or 3rd best 5751 ranking up there
with the Sylvania & GE black plates. Its strength is its
midrange, but it may also be its weakness. The mids here are
full, lush, tangible and maybe (just maybe) a trifle
overblown. Occasionally i find the lush full vocals obscure
just a bit of detail and reduce transparency slightly, but the
mids are so lush I could understand how you might not care.
The tube also has a measure of life and vibrancy, similar to
the Sylvania's black plates and it also has a bit of the
forwardness that's seems to be endemic to Sylvanias in the
5751 family. I've lived with this tube enough to know I could
use it quite happily, though that would be in the context of a
fairly neutral system where its own colorations would not go
over the top. If your rig is already warm, smooth, lush and a
bit lacking in detail this guy could turn things just a touch
syrupy. But given the sound of a lot of cd based systems he
could be just the ticket... Availability on this guy is
limited. His reputation has made him a rare, if not
outrageously expensive beast (usually $30 - $40 a tube) and he
is long lived" |
Mijknarf, yeah, you know it, I wouldn't have invested in the X600, if I didn't believe my Scintillas would put me in heaven. I heard my 1 ohm speakers in the mid eighties, so I had no question whether to spend a car's ransom on amps to drive them.
The irony is, my satisfaction with a sub grand front end... If it works...! |
Rkt008, end their suffering, and tell them you are just joking ;-) |
The Sylvania - Exactly like I hear it. I still want to find a cheap gold plate cup substitute for the Holy Grail. |
The RCA 12AU7 clear tops are readily available from numerous sources. The Sylvania, as plentiful as Sovteks five years ago, are nearly vanished, the demand is so high. The source I have used has only a few left, and, heartless as it may seem, I have a friend (Susan above) that I am holding my tongue for.
I have one spare pair. Both Rt008 and I are looking for a tube that will prove to be a close second. He still likes the Chinese tubes that came with the Jolida. I wonder if I can find mine? |
Bill once told me his favorite tube was the RCA 12AU7. I believe he has that one in stock. |
Ah Allegro. Hope all goes well. Leave it silent playing continuously till Sunday. The Jolida does not hit full stride till a month's playing. |
"I didn't know you had an Arcam," he sheepishly says. This will be a waterfall in the making, or it may be a Waterloo. |
The suspense is killing me! :) :) :) :) |
Allegro, I sent some email my way, and it arrived next second. If the ones you are sending are not bouncing back, then there are holes in Comcast's main frames... or they have been borrowed by Ashcroft. |
Kck, I've had Jolidas for so long, I forgot about that bonus. Thanks for bringing it up. I had a Sony ES before I switched, and it was night and day. |
Allegro, any further reviews? |
