Follow up: I will break in the Jolida when it arrives and try the russian tubes tha Response Audio includes with purchase. Then I will try the RCA's. I have to find the Sylvania's 5751 somewhere. The upgrade bug has bitten me and Im infected! |
Allegro, Thanks for the feed. Classical Music is probably the true test for a speaker. There is tremendous demand on the speaker to get so many different lines and instruments correctly. A literal smorgasboard of sounds and harmonies. I did fing some apogees for sale but they didnt want to ship them---just selling if you can pick up. Probably a major pain to box and ship. Thanks for the insight! They are on my short list.... |
Actually I paid 80.00 but they are not Gold Brand with the gold pins.. |
I have been burning up the web looking for the Sylvania 5751 grey plate mica gold pin tube. No luck so far. The black plate according to one source is a great tube but is more prone to failure than the grey plate. He had some that after six months were down by 50%. I have ordered the RCA (NOS) 5751 and am awaiting shipment. It will have to do while my holy grail search continues. Anyone know of a currently produced tube worth a listen? |
Muralman1 I have just ordered the JD-100 CD player after reading your rave reviews. I have Precision Fidelity C7A Preamp (which has no line stage) and Musical Fidelity Amplifier. I ordered RCA 5751 Black plate Mica tubes and Im wondering if its a mistake with the lower gain. Do you think it will work with a Pre-amp with no line stage? |
What kind of 5751 did you use? You were pretty convinced in these old posts that it was the solution! This is my first post by the way! |
My thanks to Muralman1 and Distortion! You guys have been very helpful and I really appreciate your comments. We are all flying blind on trying to upgrade our systems and this opinion sharing can help cut down an immense amount of variables.Muralman, my speakers Im afraid are the somewhat outdated Dahlquist DQ10. I imagine they have been surpassed by time but I honestly dont know where to begin on finding something better that would not cost me my first born child.The Precision Fidelity C7a is a tube Pre-amp that achived classic status. Its hard to find and still sounds wonderful in my system. It sings with my Musical Fidelity Amplifier. The harmonic truth link and Pro-Silway MK3 added another step up. My NAD CD player gave up the ghost and you have convinced me based on your comments that the Jolida 100 might be what Im looking for. |
Muralman1, Thanks again! I will check up on the Apogee. I had a friend yeras ago who ran a store called Hoffman's House of Stereo. I was fortunate to be able to hear in my system lots of high end gear without having to purchase them blindly. I learned that no matter how highly certain equipment was lauded by Stereophile or any other publication some just dont live up to the hype. Of course it could have been a case of mismatched components. It makes all of this a wild goose chase of sorts. My friend passed away and I dont have that privledge anymore.I am relying on these discussion forums to help bring me up to speed. The kind of music people listen to and their subjectivity complicates matters as well. I listen to mostly Classical music and I like rich ,warm, sound with a big soundstage. If the Apogee can produce that kind of sound I want it! |
I know about the break in period. I read your battle with Socrates about the Jolida. My harmonic technology interconnects sounded HORRIBLE out of the box. I was really depressed big time. Ater they cooked up for a period of time the gates of heaven opened........... |
Muralman! I just received my JD-100 today. Wow! It sounded damn good right out of the box! This player is going to awesome when I update the power cord and get it burned in. I was worried it might sound overly mellow but it has plenty of bite and a nice harmonic richness to it. Soundstage is big and Im suprised that it has more detail than my old NAD player which excelled in that area. I cant imagine what a tube roll could do. Doesnt seem to have much room to get better or can it? Im in heaven! |
What about the Sovtek 5751's? Anyone tried them? |
Playing my new JD-100 with the stock chinese tubes I am amazed at how good the sound is on certain recordings. A CD of the Barber Violin concerto is all one could ask for. Seductively lush and warm yet it doesnt hang back in the soundstage. It is detailed and dynamic and yet retains the warmth and liquidity that is so appealing to me.The problem I have with my system is just a little too much edge with loud passages on certain recordings.This may correct itself with a sustained breaking in of the player though. I am wondering for those of you who have found the "perfect tube" are there still recordings that sound harsh or edgy? Or does tube Heaven cure a multitude of sins? |
Muralman, I dont blame the Jolida by any means.The Musical Fidelity amp and the Jolida as well as the Harmonic Technlogy Interconnects have pushed my system to a level where I am very close to what I consider perfection. There may be no such as perfection given the variable nature of recordings however. No matter how good a system is I bet I can find a recording to make it sound bad! I guess my question is (with my inexperience in tube rolling) how great a difference is there with a selected reference recordings in the tubes you have tried? Do different tubes improve the sound in subtle different ways or is the difference profound and dramatic? |
I think I have a better chance of finding Osama or Saddam than a pair of Sylvania 5751 Black Plate's. I have Sovtek's in my Pre-amp and I wonder if that's a weak link. I will try the Electro Harmonix and see how that works in the Pre-amp and install my RCA's 5751 old stock in my Jolida when they arrive. I wish I knew your source Muralman but I dont blame you for keeping it quiet.Of course you realize you will probably find another player before you burn up all those tubes! |
6,000? If your thinking along those lines your out of my league. There is a point of diminishing returns that set in after a certain point. I remember a friend of mine investing in the 35,000 HQD system about 16 years ago. Doubled speakers and everything tri-amped. I sat in stunned silence fighting for something good to say about it.Price no object mediocrity! |
Muralman, Your critique on the various tubes seems to be in line with other summations I have picked up on the web. The telefunken's according to some may win the prize for the most overrated tube.Raytheon is getting a lot of praise as a sleeper tube that is quite good. I did find some Sylvania JAN 5751 and WA greyplate triple mica Premium. They are NOS with 1963 date codes. Only 23.00 a tube so I thought they where worth a try. Sovtek's are hated by everyone....I guess I should remove them from my Pre-amp. Dont the same people make the Electro -Harmonic tube? |
Tried the RCA 5751 triple blackplates(NOS) in the Jolida. They are very smooth,detailed but just a touch dry in my system. Soundstage dropped back just a bit from the stock tubes. All in all I prefer the chinese stock tubes to the RCA's. I await my Sylvania tubes. Finally found the Sylvania 5751 Triple Blackplate mica etc. It doesnt have the gold pins though. Eager to hear if they bring a little more liquidity and I hope they push the sound a little more forward. |
I am one obsessive devil when I search for something. The secret is to enjoy the search and leave no stones unturned.My system is very close to being where I want it and I cant stop this close to the finish line. I did follow up on the Apogee speakers but I see no point in tracking down another speaker which is no longer made. It just leads to heartbreak! By the way have you or any one else experimented with mixing brands in your Players? One tube Sylvania and one tube RCA? They are both 5751's or is that a No-No? Perhaps a crazy thought...just wondering! |
I sort of feel that way about my Dahlquist speakers although I imagine after this much time they have been surpassed. No way to tell without blindly buying something. I can never judge anything in a store. I feel fortunate to land a winner in the Jolida. What model of the Apogee do you own? How much does that model go for now on the used market? |
Distortion I eagerly await both Sylvania's. I ordered the grey plates first because that's all I could find. They are due any day now. I then found some 3 mica blackplates and ordered them.Awaiting them as well. I kept the old tubes I took out of my Pre-amp and I was curious as to what make they were( I bought them before I knew anything about this stuff)and to my suprise they were westinghouse 5751's! I have heard those might have been made my Sylvania! I bought them in town at an electronic store. Is there any way to tell if they are Sylvanis's? I will follow up and let you know about the grey and black plates. Thanks for asking! |
Milindks, Just like Muralman1 I really dont want to reveal my source because they only had 2 in stock and I want to buy more should they prove to be the Holy Grail for my system. I spent over 8 hours on the web just to find those! If their stock was plentiful I would be more than happy to share with others.They may not even be able to pull more in anyhow. Be patient and keep searching! Good luck! |
Muralman1, You flatter me! An investigator by trade? That gave me a good laugh. Im just a crazed obsessive music lover that insists on getting the sound I want just like the rest of you guys! Actually Im a well known Artist (painter) in my state. My brother is better known nationally and writes classical music reviews for the American Record Guide and the british publication Tempo. He is the one who infected me with the "Super system stereo bug". I managed to shake off the bug until I found Audiogon and now I have a full blown case of upgraditis.I think I caught reading you guys! I have put apogee on my short list should I look at speakers. Supposed to be a great speaker for Classical Music. |
When Im ready to upgrade to different speakers I imagine I will find a way to land some. Not sure if I want to accept their bottow of the line though as good as they might be. The ones just up from the stage is where I will set my sights. I have been running the Jolida all day (reinserted the stock tubes) and switched the Pro-Silway MK3 interconnect to the truth-link. Also upgraded the power cord. Hard to believe the sound can get better! Allegro,get this player! I was playing some Delius and the strings were so sweet and harmonically rich it took my breath away. This is as close to a perfect piece of equipment as I have ever come across. Delicacy with immediacy. Big orchestral moments in Mahler are powerful but rounded, horns climb though the texture with bite and your just swept into the music. Hard to believe this player costs 900.! I await my Sylvania's but Im hard pressed to believe this sound can get better! |
Muralman1 Thanks! I will consider the stage if and when I can find a pair in great shape. I have been checking audiogon and there hasnt been any for sale. Eventually something will show up. Still waiting for my Sylvania's to show up. |
The trouble with recommendations is that one should hear the Sylvania Blackplates first to familarize yourself with its "sound" and qualities before offering up its replacement. I bought my Jolida form Bill Baker but I dont know if he has heard the Joilda with the Sylvania's. Actually all these tubes have some good qualities and Im sure to some they sound fairly mellow and appealing. The Sylvania 5751 Blackplates do some things the others to not especially pitching the sound forward. Liquidity is especially important! We all chasing down tubes to get away from that dry,sterile,soul sapping digital sound. |
My take on the Sylvania Grey plates,RCA etc. First I should state that none of these have been burned in properly (including my JD-100 player)and that as you all know has a great effect on the sound. The Sylvania 5751's grey plates sound very transparent, very smooth, very naturally detailed and I might add very close to what I hear in the concert hall. Both the RCA bLackplates and the Sylvania sound just a touch dry ( just a touch) in my system. The chinese stock tubes so far are the winner! They are perhaps a bit more colored and less neutral but they have a liquidity and glow that for me is a walk to paradise garden.Listening to W Allyn's "Lyra Angelica" the strings were silky and so engaging and coupled with the beautful harp runs I found myself pulling away from analytical thoughts about sound and drifting into spiritual grace. I dont think anyone who prefers these classic tubes is wrong all these things as Muralman points out are system dependent. So far my quest ends where it began. The chinese tubes are the winner! Best of all (for me) they are cheap and available! |
My Sylvania 5751 Triple mica blackplates have finally arrived and have been cooking in my system for about 8 hours.Now this is more like it! Much better than the Sylvania grey plates or the RCA. I am wondering if the grey plates and the RCA were weeded out tubes from a larger batch. There are variables within the same make. I have read that out of every ten made usually only 4 are up to the standards needed for high quality audio. The Sylvania blackplates are the tube to get. The stock chinese tubes are my second choice. If you can find an RCA its worth a listen..... |
I wish I was joking. I was perfectly happy with the chinese stock tubes until I heard the Sylvania Blackplates. This tube has it all! Its smooth ,detailed,very liquid,the sounstage is huge! The RCA and the greyplates had some of these qualities but the sound was very dry and that for me is a no-no. It may be that they were cast outs from a bad batch. The Sylvania Blackplates also pitch the sound forward. This puts vocals right in your lap. That may bother some people but I love it! Also there is a nice sense of air and bloom around the instruments. This is the Holy Grail! Sell the kids,auction off the mother-in-law,steal from the collection basket,pay any price but find this tube! |
If you find a substitute let us know. I am trying to track down another pair for backup. |
Can the 12au7 be used in a slot for 12ax7? I dont think so. |
