Jazz vinyl- go for originals or new reissues?

1. I agree in most respects with Davt's comment that Blue Note originals are the pinnacle of vinyl. For me, the first pressing of a given Blue Note has always proved the best. The title numbers for the first pressings are: Lexington 1501-1543; W.63rd 1544-1600 + 4000-4074; New York 4075-4253.

2. The one Jazz label not mentioned above that also is very much in this league is Impulse; there I think the 2nd/3rd pressings on Red and Black labels are close in quality to the originals.

The Coltrane Atlantic LP box sounds very good-- though not quite up to the level of the Miles/Coltrane Mosaic boxes. For me at least these put to rest the matter of tracking down the originals. The extra material and resequencing in the Mosaic boxes can be mind-expanding once you slip the boundaries of the original LPs-- particularly in a live setting like the Plugged Nickel.

I played an OJC of Coltranes Lush Life tonight and was astounded - very engaging, warm and detailed recording
wow, I really hit the jackpot with that remaster and dead quiet too

thanks guys for all the insights

other experience sure helps when you are taking the plunge

Tom,

I feel like I've been in the same boat as you. I recently upgraded equipment and I'm getting back into vinyl purchasing mode. A few years ago I went through most of the issues you're going through. I never made it up to paying for pristine original blue notes or others, but I have a few decent early pressings so I have a good idea of what I'm missing. I have several with surface noise on my ZYX Airy, which is very iritating. FWIW, here are some comments:

These suggestions assume you like the 1950s-60s Blue Note music the best, along with other good stuff from labels such as New Jazz, Prestige, Vee Jay, etc...

1. These comments assume your budget is no more than $50 per LP (and preferrable much cheaper), so if I say something sounds good, it is relative to what is generally available in that price range (either used or new reissue). If price were no object, I would go for near mint first pressings. I haven't compared near mint first pressings to the reissues or later pressings, so I don't know whether they are worth the extra money. Maybe someone else can chime in on this point.

2. By far the best value are the OJC's. They were analog recordings and the vinyl is very quiet on almost all the ones I own. When you can find them, they are cheap used ($5-$10) and many are still available new. For more money, the Analogue Productions 45RPM's are available for many recordings (I have a few and they sound great, and for what they are, they are a great value) and Analogue Productions 180g versions of the same OJC recordings also sound very good.

3. For Blue Notes, as you noted, the Japanese King and Liberty pressings are a good deal if you can find clean copies for good prices. I have some of the new series of Classic Records reissues, and I think they sound good compared to the King or Liberty, especially when you factor in the potential for surface noise on less than mint King or Liberty copies. Before Classic came out with its new series, I focused primarily on Mosaic sets, since it was the easiest way to acquire quiet Blue Notes. The vinyl is quiet and the recordings are good. You have the alternative takes, which you may not like, but the Mosaics are comprehensive and often include tracks from very rare or otherwise unattainable LP's. I also have some of the Mosaic CD sets, which are uniformly excellent. The nice thing about Mosaic vinyl sets is that every used set I've purchased (even an ex-library box) has had pretty much zero surface noise.

4. Now, here's something else that you may have figured out. There are going to be several must have LP's that you really want, such as the great Paul Chambers stuff, but you're going to have a hard time finding any acceptable versions in vinyl for the $50 per LP budget. This is where I shifted to CD's. Generally, the Japanese mini-LP sleeve versions of the Blue Note recordings are much nicer than the RVG US CD's. If you look around, you can get them directly from Japan for about $25 per CD.

5. If you're into Paul Chambers, I recommend the Mosaic Complete Vee Jay Paul Chambers-Wynton Kelly Sessions CD Box Set. The Mosaic Select Paul Chambers CD Box (still available new) is a good value if you don't have the Paul Chambers Japanese mini-LP CD's.

6. If you don't have a copy, order Doug Watkins - Watkins At Large (Classic). I have the King pressing, which sounds great, and I've ordered a copy of the Classic reissue to compare, since it is one of my favorite jazz LP's.

7. Although Speakers Corner doesn't have much Jazz, if you like any of the jazz in their catalog, the reissues are excellent. If you don't have it, I'd highly recommend Mingus, Mingus, Mingus from Speakers Corner. There are others that are excellent, but that is the first record that comes to mind.

Hope you find this helpful.

Mark

the original vinyl, the new vinyl,and all the incarnations of compact disc, are different in every case. only go for minty originals if you go there at all.you will also find the quality of all new media...vinyl or cd....is all over the place.

japanese jazz reissues are great. OJC reissues are cheap and quite good. the classic/Impulse/Blue Note reissues are great and well-priced.

forget original Blue Notes - too 'collectible'!
original Prestige are usually VERY noisy! (go for the OJCs)
original Impulse tend to be noisy too...

columbia 6 eyes are enormously variable - you just have to listen...

Mosaic is great but $$$ (they do hold their value though due to their limited release)

in general, as you're finding out, jazz vinyl can be an expensive habit. if sound quality is your main criterion, you will find plenty to enjoy; just forget about those pricey originals.

Unless you are getting great deals on the originals (pristine vinyl), I would go for new releases at the same price point.

Tom,

I guess its all a matter of money. As you have already found out, if you start buying good clean original pressing records on desirable labels, you are going to get into spending some serious money really quickly.

If you are not a collector of records and simply want great sound, then the reissues may be the way to go. However if you're talking about the "audiophile" reissues that Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct sells, those can get pretty high in price as well. For example I bought a Bill Evans "How My Heart Sing" on Riverside recently. This was an original stereo pressing in NM condition with a VG++ cover. I paid $35.00 for it on ebay. The reissue at Acoustic Sounds sells for $49.99. The sonics on the reissue can't be any better than this original pressing. The vinyl may be a little quieter however, but this is a prime example where a reissue may cost more than an original.

I often pick up riverside stuff for good prices. However, this is not the case for Blue Notes and yellow Prestige stuff. These almost always go for big bucks. In addition I think the opinion of sellers of what is truly NM has taken a shift in the last few years as truly NM material has become more scarce. NM means its opened but looks new. 96% perfect. Maybe a slight sleeve scuff that can only be seen in bright light. Well some of the big buck Blue Notes I bought from so called repuatable "Jazz Specialists" over the last few years have been anything but NM. They were all advertised as NM, but when I got them, there were too many defects to be truly NM, They were VG+ in my opinion. So the point is you take a risk paying big $$$ for original collectable jazz, when you have to trust the subjective condition opinion of the person selling the record. The condition always looks better to the seller than the buyer usually.

So for Blue Notes grab a Jap pressing or even the later DMM metal pressings that were pressed in the 80's. You can usually pick those up for less than $10.00. For old Prestige on the cheap, you can't do any better than the OJC pressings. "Original Jazz Classics". These were pressed by Fantasy in the 80's and early 90's when they took over the Prestige catalog. These pressings sound exceptional, and they can usually be had for less than $7.00.

If having the nostalgia of the original Blue Note or Prestige label spinning on your platter means nothing to you, then go for the 80's pressings. They sound pretty darn good and don't cost a lot.

Mark

It depends. I have a few original Blue Note Deep groove and though pricey the ones in my collection are the very pinnical of what vinyl can be. I also have a complete set of East Wind direct to disk that I think were worth the price. I also look for original Pablo, not the RCA, and these can be very nice and far more affordable as can original 6eye columbia. Some will price the 6eye pretty high though I have been able to get a 100 or so at reasonable prices, ($10-$25) with carefull shopping. I also will buy a number of new reissues if the music is nice and the original either is too expensive or I can't find a nice one. I generally will pay for the original if I feel that the original recording and pressing warrants it due to musical quality. I do not buy origianls because of rarity, all my LP's get played. I purchased a few, new sealed and, well, they were quickly unsealed a played much to the frustration of some friends who are collectors for collecting sake.