I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Thanksgiving "joke" (not strictly related to Thanksgiving)
A man called up his adult daughter and told her the bad news: He and his wife were getting a divorce. “But why, dad? What happened?” the daughter asked. “I’ve been miserable for years and I just can’t take it anymore. I’ve packed my bags and I’m leaving tonight!” the father replied.
“Wait, dad! Don’t do anything drastic. I’m coming over to talk to you guys. Can you at least wait until tomorrow?” asked the daughter. “OK, why don’t you bring John and the kids, too. I’m sure your mom will want to see them,” the dad said. “OK,” said the daughter. “See you then.”
The man hung up the phone, then said, “Honey! The kids are coming over for Thanksgiving!”
It’s as everything you had to say is now irrelevant because your tone is crap. All my opinion.
Well it would seem buy consensus here on audiogon that more agree with me than you. And that is a fact, and has nothing to do with opinion. By the way I played drums, not a pro but have ben playing since I was 6 and have very good ’tone’.
The guitar choices of Martino are dictated and chosen for and by his particular way of picking "chords"...
He is a genius in his way to use some chords like no one did in guitar jazz america... We need a musician to confirm this, i am not one...
But it seems to me that his style is something i would described by the word "speaking" before "singing"...His guitar playing remind me of some master of the ud or tanbur in near-eastern music or north africa... His guitar spoke to sing and before singing , not sing first, save in some pieces he plays, times to times orthodoxically and out of his own chords syntax system.......
His genius for me is not so much playing beautiful melodies which he is very able to do by the way sometimes, BUT inducing mantra-like "spoken chords" repetiting/varying formulas, making him able to integrate anything in his flowing moves....Often the musicians playing with him are NOT SIDE co-players but disciples...They play like him in his language....
Rythm ,melody,and harmony unite in something "vertical" that mimic or resemble no "beautiful linear melodic singing" but Hypnotic trance ... Like the mystic greatest master of Tanbur Ostad Elahi....Like dancing Sufi music...
I truly think that Martino is a mystic....Not only the usual musician....his music is so frenetically powerful because of that... But i know many people for example that dont like the last Sciabin nor Ostad Elahi, because we must really open our mind to some new "consciousness" level to learn HOW to listen to that with the right part of our soul and brain...My Music tastes changed all my life absorbing something new completely times to times...music is not like meals a question of taste, music is too much linked to our soul to be only a "taste", music is a set of perspectives encompassing the human soul and nourrishing it....Some music must be LEARNED to be LOVED...
One thing is sure the guitar of Martino is not always like an easy enchanting melodic line, but a zig-zag abyss between rythm and harmony...For me it is so intense that i prefer him to most more " beautiful" easy listenings players, like Grant Green for example whom i like so much...But Martino is in an another class of its own over all jazz guitarist i know...
I am not shocked easily...I like almost all styles of music of all countries or era...
In a word there exist probably a "Martino" cult... Like A Bruckner cult, a Wagner cult, a Scriabin cult, these 3 masters also in their own way wanted to grip you by the sheer force of their "chord" mastery...
The last Coltrane or Miles Davis induce also something like that with his own means...Chet Baker so demolished in his soul and body, go on with a playing that lost all "innovations" potential to concentrate on the "spoken" nude words where there is nothing left save an intimate articulate murmur conveying emotions WITHOUT any spectacular sound ( the opposite of the creative Miles Davis)...
@tyray, Neither did I mention Grant Green, or Kenny Burrell, or Russell Malone. There are many, many, great guitarists. And the great ones all played archtop’s. Was that because they too were traditionalists? I’m not saying Pat Martino wasn’t a gifted player. But he lost me with his tone. We each hear differently. Non Musicians hear differently than Pro’s. I’m not a pro, but I recognize what great guitar tone is. Without good tone you’ve completely lost my interest. It’s as everything you had to say is now irrelevant because your tone is crap. All my opinion.
(forgive me I’m not up to date in current thread), I read how a member prefers a player’s tone over Pat Martino, as that player used an Archtop.Was Pat known for ever playing a Tele?? Regardless, Pat would do an exemplary job on a Sears Silvertone!!! But yea, "tone" does matter to those who notice and care. Btw, I'mfortunate to have a couple "very nice" 6 and 4 strings. (Gibson Super 400 original PAFs is KING) I don't have that. 😊
I much prefer his tone to Pat Martino’s. Reason being Anthony plays a Gibson Byrdland archtop as opposed to a tele like guitar.
WWWHHHAAATTT!!!
That is an insane statement if I ever heard one. Not only is Pat Martino a master guitarist but a master band leader as well. Pat Martino has played with some of the best musicians that have ever lived. And HE knows the BLUES!
Guitarist Anthony Wilson born in1968, is a BABY compared to Maestro Martino! And you play guitar!?
frogman, if coltarne1 can’t understand the massive CHOPS of Pat Martino? Then there’s nothing you or we can do. Especially, after dropping that YouTube video Oleo! He is a front man.
His band in the video would blow the Anthony Wilson band live with Diana Krall. OFF THE STAGE!
And to the comment, ’I much prefer his tone to Pat Martino’s. Reason being Anthony plays a Gibson Byrdland archtop as opposed to a tele like guitar.’
Let me explain, and give an analogy.
A master carpenter can take the worst, beat up, broken tools and create a master piece.
And a apprentice or even a newly minted journeyman could not match the skill set of a master carpenter even if (he or she) had brand new spanking tools.
And the quality of workmanship would not even come closet to the master carpenter’s with the worst, beat up, broken tools.
Myself too...I pick a frogman post about him...I discxovered him thanks to frogman one week ago...i did not even recognize his name save vaguely....
Martino is so original in his playing which is also a way to compose not only improvise with a chord system hypnotical and able to integrate in his net any melody in his own way...
He is not only a top guitarist but a very great musician...
His particular way to touch the strings comes from or MIMIC asian way North africa oud or near eastern instrument like tanbur...
He clearly had an arabic and "sufi" influence which is very deep and the ground of his playing... He resemble no american jazz guitarist i know of ....
His music is more intense than just beautiful...All this which is intense could be beautiful also, but all there which is beautiful is not always also intense...
His music for this reason GRIP us under his spell...
His guitar spoke with chords more than singing with a melody...Near eastern way to speak more than singing..
For sure he pick and choose some type of electrical guitar able to serve his way: speaking more than singing or speaking before and on top of singing...
His guitar choices are tailored around that goal...
All this explain why he is so much underestimated being a true creative and completely original genius but not only a top guitarist... There is many top guitarists...Fewer totally original one , and fewer great musician not only for guitar sake but for the music sake...Bach and Scriabin, and Monteverdi or any other great musicians are people who create their own way to speak....They are unmistakable...But could be forgotten like Bach was circled by new emerging ways to speak and write discourse...Martino was forgotten...For a time....His reputation will not decrease though ....
His style has the same powerful potential originality and richness than Django Rheinhardt...I put him near him...
And as many a jazz guitarist I’ve known about over the years, I had never heard of Pat Martino! Until about a week or so later, I discovered here, thanks to you guys!
i cannot either... 😁😊
I can’t click and paste music clips. Is there a problem?
Man this interesting stuff! Just a couple weeks ago I posted a comment on ’Bands/artists you never got to see live in their heyday, but would’ve liked to.’
11-11-2021 9:29pm
Wow, I had almost forgotten what a nice thread looks like with like minded people. For some reason I got old jazz guitar slingers on my mind.
Django Reinhardt Charlie Christian Eddie Lang Jim Hall Barney Kessel Bill Frisell Tal Farlow Herb Ellis Freddie & Grant Green Charlie Byrd Kenny Burrell
And as many a jazz guitarist I’ve known about over the years, I had never heard of Pat Martino! Until about a week or so later, I discovered here, thanks to you guys!
So I gotta ask?
coltrane1, why did you leave Eddie Lang off your jazz guitarist list above? His style of playing jazz to me, is show nuff blues and country music based indeed. Just curious?
There is a saying among musicians that says: "Nobody ever gets fired for having a bad sound". Certainly an exaggeration of sorts amd keeping in mind that "bad" is a relative thing the point of the saying is that there are aspects of a musician's playing are far more important than whether they meet some predetermined idea of what a good tone is: great rhythm, great creativity and great individuality, a component of which is a unique tone.
I get that you like a particular type of guitar tone, but you seem to be suggesting that if a player doesn't fit that tone mold that he is not a serious player. I can't agree with that. Is the sound of our voice more important than what we say? I don't think so. Btw, when judging Martino's choice of guitar and tone, keep in mind the various styles that he has explored including Fusion.
I much prefer his tone to Pat Martino’s. Reason being Anthony plays a Gibson Byrdland archtop as opposed to a tele like guitar.
You are totally right speaking about this sound tone of the archtop guitar versus the telecaster one..
i know nothing aout electrical guitar...
The tone sound quality of this archtop is marvellous for me also and i am inclined to give you a point...
But one this is said,
Pat Martino is indeed way more than one of the greatest guitarist i ever listen to on par with the one you listed...
His only real peer for me is an unknown "god" here of the tanbur in Iranian music.. Ostad Elahi being also the greatest musician Yehudi Menuhin say he ever listen to...
The reason is Pat Martino plays like a composer and a musician, not just like the TOP average guitar virtuoso, his unmistakable style, united melody, rythm, and harmony in an never ending UNSECABLE unity, so much powerful that all the 20 albums i owned already are like one single album , one piece of music only... The reason for that is his use of a systematic system of basic core CHORDS nuclear tool which are unique to him...
The reason is his music is so DENSE and DEEP, rythmically,melodically and harmonically that it is no more just guitar virtuoso playing a melody with a beautiful sound, but a NEW KIND of interpretation and creation with this instrument...And all musicians playing in his albums are heavily marked DEEPLY in their own playing by his direction... They dont play their part only alternatively like in the most majority of jazz albums..All musicians playing around Martino plays under Martino melting steel musical flow, they seems disciples more than side partner...This speak a lot about his genius...
His music is trancelike, hypnotic and CANNOT be good taste for all people being too much idyosincasic .. His music is more intense than beautiful....Not all people are sympathetic to Scriabin music for example for the same reason...
But i know nothing about guitar playing, types, and nothing about music, being not a musician... I only try to listen...
@frogman, I’ve been a member of the jazz.be website for 14 years. It’s the finest jazz website on the web for all things jazz guitar. But a very few there are actual jazz guitarists. Every one of them grew up playing rock and later came to jazz later in life. It’s an okay place to learn jazz guitar. But 90 percent of the place is simply a hangout much like Audiogon, without any serious instructive qualities. The most popular page there is the gear page. Guitarists obsess about their gear. There they obsess with pedals because that’s what they used during their rock days. I don’t own a pedal. I play nothing but an archtop through a traditional 40 watt tube amplifier.
Yes, I’m biased. Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, Barney Kessell, these are the fathers of jazz guitar. Each played a jazz archtop because that was the jazz tradition. Martino came after Wes died. He too worshiped Wes as every guitar player did. I’m a traditionalist. Give me a full fat bodied tone that only an archtop can create. This new breed of players like Julian Lage etc playing tele’s do nothing for me. Give it another category and don’t call it jazz. All my opinion.
**** A serious jazz artist must play an archtop in the vein of Russell Malone, Wes Montgomery, Barney Kessell, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, etc None of these jazz guitarists played tele’s because the sweetest jazz tone is delivered by an archtop with at least 3" of depth. None of the old players played a tele! ****
Pretty bold statement. I may have a favorite type of tone, but I wouldn't dream of criticizing the choice of gear by one of the most serious players to ever play the instrument; some would say the most serious. Have you considered that Martino chose his instrument because that was precisely the sound that he wanted; so as not to sound like many other players? He actually did play an arch top at various points on his career.
You may find this interesting and thanks for the clip:
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