*****Have you ever sampled what passes for music on this forum?******
This is a forum for buying and selling gear. Talking about gear. What passes for music here? Nothing passes for music here, because there is no music here. This thread accounts for over 60% of the total music posts on Audiogon. That says it all.
I don't think music reproduction is the goal of most Audiophiles. It's Sound reproduction, along with the appreciation and pride in ownership of well made, beautiful, and expensive electronic devices.
Cheers |
Hi guys - I am still lurking here, and feel compelled to agree 100% with Rok's last post. This is a major reason why so many professional musicians do not have much respect for audiophiles - most of them, in my experience, don't actually care about the music at all, they just think they do because they have purchased expensive gear. They really care about what they think is accurate sound reproduction. The irony here for me and many other musicians is that many of their expensive systems don't actually sound anything like live, acoustically produced music in a good space, which is supposedly (and should be!) the standard. I am glad that there are some on this forum who do care about music - this thread is definitely the best one on this board, despite some major disagreements that have happened.
There are many more discussions about music on the vinyl asylum, though most of it is about classical rather than jazz. There is a forum on there specifically for music, which is very active, and does discuss jazz quite a bit. I would suggest that those of you follow this thread and who care about music sign up over there as well. I think you will enjoy the discussions over there, especially if you love classical, too. |
Today's Listen: Oscar Peterson + Harry Edison + Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson Slow drag Indeed!! Cleanhead can not only sing the blues, but can play a little alto as well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCcUUtSlAAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX7oHbyNVU The title should have included ' + Joe Pass '. He is his usual brilliant self throughout. Oscar is always very good, but when his is 'with' anyone else, esp Trumpet players, it's rises to another level. Nice Cover Photo. Cheers |
Rok, "Bird's Best Bop" is a must have CD; it contains cuts from the LP's I bought way back when I first started collecting records. The sidemen on each cut read like a who's who of jazz. It's been said that Bird's fingers moved so fast that you couldn't even see them when he was playing.
Monk sounds better as a sideman with Bird than he does on his own records. A fledgling Miles can be heard trying to keep up. The cuts on this CD are so complete, there's no way I could pick out a best. Unfortunately it's not on "You tube", so I can't give you a sample, but since this should be in your collection, buy it if you ain't got it.
Enjoy the music.
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Learsfool, I care more about music than I do holding a grudge; if you like, we can consider you our reference classical consultant. Since my hands are full with this thread, I don't have time to visit others.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
I know this is blasphemy, but Bird was never one of my favorite players. Maybe the quality of the sound, of most of his recordings, has something to do with that. But, I will try it out.
Cheers |
****despite some major disagreements that have happened. ***
Why Learsfool, whatever do you mean? |
Rok, would you like a CD with Miles Davis, Kenny Dorham, Dizzy Gillespie, Red Rodney, Walter Bishop, Al Haig, John Lewis, Thelonious Monk, Ray Brown, Kenny Clark, Max Roach, and I done got tired of typing names; that's "Verve 314-527-452-2 Charlie Parker- Birds Best Bop"
Enjoy the music.
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Ken Schaphorst has finally put his tribute to Harald Alden. One of my very favorite recordings. Wild takes on Alden, but what fun. Check out the rest of the album! This is one of my speaker check out tunes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfx5BbaP-oo |
Rok, when I don't respond to your post, it's because I don't have anything to say, good or bad, I'm not inspired; not because I didn't look and listen.
I don't know how many times you've submitted Oscar Peterson and I didn't respond. This clip is good jazz jazz; but it sounds like the same music that I've heard so many times before, that it's boring; I've been listening to this music a lot longer than you.
When more people were here, someone would respond; those "unnecessary" arguments seem to have ran some people off who haven't come back. I'm not in any way suggesting that you change anything in regard to your submissions, just because I don't respond; they may be someone else's cup of tea, just what they were looking for.
In regard to posts on threads, all seem to come up short.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
****This clip is good jazz jazz; but it sounds like the same music that I've heard so many times before, that it's boring***
How can that lineup / tune be 'boring'? I think you have drank the Kool-aid.
But you are correct in that you have been at this a lot longer than I have. Therefore, I think anything I like, will be old-hat, or 'boring' to you.
***In regard to posts on threads, all seem to come up short.****
I don't understand this. To what are you referring?
Cheers |
"The least fatiguing "; Why does she affect me in that same fashion? It's because she plays the music and not the notes, she plays the music in between the notes. An example of that is on "Mack The Knife"; I've heard this song a zillion times, but never have I heard it sound so "musical" as when Mary Lou Williams played it; it was musical with a jazz foundation.
Mary lou was a natural born musician; her mother would not let a music teacher get close to her daughter, said it would ruin her natural ability; she learned how to play by playing. As a child she played "chitlin struts" (never been to one) and rent parties. Every time she strikes a key, the sound rings out "Mary Lou Williams", her individuality is just that unique.
Rok, I bet right now, you're having a hard time stopping to do anything else but listening to the CD's you recently acquired by Mary Lou; that's what I meant by going to "Mary Lou Ville", now you don't want to leave.
Enjoy the music.
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Normally someone else would have responded to your post because we had more people responding; that's related to the not so clear "all threads seem to be coming up short", meaning that there seems to be fewer people responding on other threads as well. Many times when a thread loses people, they don't come back. I had that feeling when they were dragging me into all that totally unnecessary, never ending bickering, that we would lose people on this thread, and we did; maybe they'll come back.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, here are some blues with a different twist; this is where two great rivers meet, the Ganges and the Mississippi, down in a different kind of delta. Ry Cooder and Vishwa Mohan Bhatt join to bring us double delta blues, from Mississippi to Calcutta, including a smoking tabla that keeps an East Indian beat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ygVcw4SCkEnjoy the music. |
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O-10:
****meaning that there seems to be fewer people responding on other threads as well.*****
That seems to be true. I think one of the reasons is because they never agree on anything. And I mean Anything! After a while folks think they are just talking in circles. Never, is a consensus reached. And consensus is the purpose of debate or discussion.
What is the point of asking a question if you will get as many different answers as you get responses. All absolutley sure, that their's is the only correct answer.
Being on Audiogon is Like being adrift in a raft in the middle of the Pacific, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink. A man can die of thirst in the middle of an ocean.
Besides, once a person says, "the only thing that counts is what 'I' hear", then discussion becomes pointless. Coupled with the 'belief' that ALL components have their own individual 'sound'. Pointless indeed!!
Cheers |
O-10:
****Many times when a thread loses people, they don't come back. I had that feeling when they were dragging me into all that totally unnecessary, never ending bickering, that we would lose people on this thread, and we did; maybe they'll come back****
Keep in mind that Music threads are a distinct minority on this site. Jazz is a minority within that minority. Traditioanal / Classic Jazz (Jazz-Jazz) is a minority within that minority.
There aren't that many people here who are interested in Music, fewer still in "Jazz' and even fewer in Jazz-Jazz.
They won't come back because they were not that interested in the beginning. I suspect that when Monk or Mingus were mentioned, it was the same to them, as it is to me, when they mentioned their favorites. Their minds went blank.
Some were 'Audiophiles', who thought all opinions on Jazz should be treated as equal. Like their opinions on gear. I.E., there is no right or wrong, no good or bad, no great or mundane. No noise at all. Whatever a person says or plays, must be accepted as valid.
I will never break faith with the people who created this wonderful music. They were victimized, cheated and disrepected, while they lived. I will not stand by and watch their legacy be stolen. At least not without speaking out and defending their wonderful and unique contribution to the world..
Until you are prepared to kowtow to the lost posters, they won't be back.
Cheers |
Rok, your responses are what keeps me going. We gained some people who might have been from the other side of the world because they didn't speak English too well. People who were already on this forum would have agreed with Frogman, and Learsfool no matter what they said. Acman is the only person from here who's still with us, looks like he's going to stay.
In regard to the people who were victimized, cheated, and disrespected, I think about them often; I saw Art Blakey in a dump, a low life joint, the reason I never mentioned it is because tears came to my eyes, I couldn't enjoy the set for wandering, "What's the great Art Blakey doing playing in a joint like this." That was in what is referred to as "The dark years".
I'm glad you bring things like that into the conversation.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen: Mary Lou Williams -- SOLO RECITAL Montreux Jazz festival 1978 This is the entire CD. Received it yesterday also. Read the reviews below the clip. I have never before, seen such praise heaped upon any artist. She is much more than I could ever put into words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uakBe89GldI&list=RDuakBe89GldI#t=894Cheers |
Acman, now we got the Malian Blues, I told you it was universal.
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Rok, once you enter "Mary Lou Ville" you never want to leave.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, did you notice that Ali Farka Toure, who is from Mali, has an almost fully developed blues style. How do you think that happened? He was not from the South or the Caribbean Islands. Good to see you back Ramonron, See O-10 they are coming back. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjpRccuiZPg |
***** How do you think that happened? He was not from the South or the Caribbean Islands.*****
Any competent musician can play in the blues style. He listened to Tapes and LPs of American Blues players? He was born in 1939, so I think we can eliminate him as being the creator of the blues.
If your point is to say that Africa is the birth place of the Blues, if that is so, where are all the African Blues players? The tradition? The body of work?
I have a couple of his CDs. His music is interesting and in some cases almost hypnotic. Like a lot of third world music, a little of him goes a long way.
Africa's contribution to the world, is limited to long distance runners, EBOLA and AIDS.
Cheers |
"Africa's contribution to the world, is limited to long distance runners, EBOLA and AIDS." : Rok2id
In case there was stil doubt about why some people don't return to this thread. |
Rok, Ali's music was traditional African music, it was unrelated to our blues in lineage, and the similarities in sound was a coincident. Music is the universal language when it comes to expressing emotions; while our words are different, when it comes to basic emotions, they have similarities in music from around the world, consequently we have "blue" sad music, that could be the same in Africa.
Every since someone's trolley jumped the tracks in regard to all those far fetched relationships, you guys have been hearing things; next, someone will illustrate how chitlins are related to truffles.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok - Thanks for the Mary Lou Williams link. |
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Rok, we have made a significant "new" discovery. Although she has been around for quite some time, she's new to us in regard to her music; while if we had been on a quest for something new, as related to time, we would have discovered "zilch".
This recent experience explains so much more when I compare it to life in general. Just as we are going backwards in music, life in general for the working man is going backwards. While those who can afford "yachts" are trading up, we are trading down.
So much for economics. Now back to music; although Mary Lou was an extraordinarily gifted musician, she was a very common person who always thought of her brother and sister human beings, meaning she was not self centered.
Her legacy includes the Mary Lou Williams Foundation, which she established shortly before her death. The foundation helps children and young adults learn about jazz.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, since she only sings in Arabic, I failed to understand your last post, and how is this a better environment?
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
****I failed to understand your last post****
What makes you think I understand it? Audiogon does not require that posters understand their own posts. If they did, there would be a lot fewer posts.
I think I was trying to say the Tiny Desk series tends to show artists in their natural state. No props, minimum costumes and stage production, and all that. Up close and personal. Sort of more suited to her type music. Or you could say, minimum influence of you Infidels. Or thoughts to that effect. :)
The word " ar - ree - bee. Zap Mama says that a lot. I will have to find out what it means.
Cheers |
Rok, when you have "The Duke of Ellington" and the "Barron of Holland", what else do you need?
In regard to the Barron, that was an appropriate name for the title, and I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen: Thelonious Monk -- LIVE AT THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (complete) Monk is in fine form. This could just as easy have been, Charlie Rouse at the Jazz Workshop. A very under recognized player. I think that's often true when a player plays with a legend. Sort of like McCoy with Coltrane. 2-CD set with two problems. First there are 7 tunes that appear on both CD. 'Epistrophy' is played three times. That seems always to be a problem with Monk. Listening to either of the CDs is fine, but if you listen to both at the same session, the sense of sameness prevails.. The second problem is the noise, chatter, from the audience. It's not in support of, or in reaction to the music, it's just people talking as if the man is not even playing. Another great performance 'wasted' on idiots. Happens a lot in Jazz. Other than the chatter, the sound is fine. Closely miked. The playing is great. All his 'Hits' are here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDLxJWKcZk&list=PLrR6QlNIqj5m3bTtyAp8gnaKxjmkdE_BsListen to this today also. Sounded so awesome had to post it. Was it Peabo or my Polks? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0XMn0U9b2YCheers |
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A ' LOL ' moment.
Watched an episode of "Foyle's War" on Netflix last night. The plot revolved around Soviet defectors and spies, being tortured by an out of control section of the British Intelligence Service. Late 1940's and Early 1950's England.
Foyle sends an agent to infiltrate the compound and to investigate. He finds one Russian being water-boarded. Another undergoes a mock execution, (pistol not loaded). In the hallway of the cell block is a record player. The music is being piped into all the cells. The camera zooms on the turntable and the subtitle reads "atonal music being played".
Sounded a lot like 'Free' and/or 'Modern' Jazz to me. Wiki confirmed it. I really did laugh out loud.
If water-boarding and mock executions don't work, there is always 'free-Jazz'. No Soviet spy could withstand it.
Cheers |
And I would be smiling and wondering; what are they going to try next sex with pretty girls ? |
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Good Lord, He Lives!!
I had assumed that you, and hence this thread, had Crossed Jordan.
Don't knock Slavery. Just think of where you, and Jazz, would be without it.
Cheers |
Rok, since I don't have your e-mail address, we must have our feuds in public, and then go on.
"Ebola" is no joking matter; I've heard of people blurting out things best unsaid, but not writing things best unsaid, because that takes time. While everyone knows about AIDS, not everyone knows about EBOLA; it delivers a death too horrifying to write about. What's even worse about this disease is that doctors and nurses contract it while trying to help the afflicted. I suggest you read a little more about it.
Some things will have to change if I am to come back; classical, and popular music that can't fall into this ultra large arena we call "jazz", should not be submitted; this is a jazz forum. After saying all of this, my first musical submission might be arbitrary in regard to whether or not it's jazz, but there is no question of the fact that it's beautiful music. This also gives an indication of how big this arena is. Will post tomorrow.
Enjoy the music.
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"Mike's Murder" is a movie about two very young guys who have not learned that one must have a job in order to earn a living, and they're trying to take short cuts. Charles pulls Mike in on a job transporting a large quantity of dope. That was simple enough, but Charles decided to steal a small amount thinking they wouldn't miss it. If these guys had ever watched "Miami Vice", they would have known that was a very bad idea. Not long after they stole this "small quantity" of dope, Mike's body was found in a clear plastic bag, and Charles had ran out of places to run. While "Moonlight" is hauntingly beautiful, this is the most sinister part of the movie. The moonlight is so bright you could read by it, and "They" are closing in on Charles in a deserted house; that's when he plays games with his mind and the moonlight, he knows his next breath might be his last. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjOT4NmNKrk&index=2&list=PL36827A04EF9DAF94"Zemeo" is a fast paced number that fits into the plot; Charles is rapidly trying to make deals in order to save his life, and he's told "These people have to make a statement", nothing can save you now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovwkAnrTH4AEnjoy the music. |
O-10;
I purchased "Mike Murder" on LP back in the day. The album art belies the story-line of the movie. I never saw the movie, and didn't seek to replace the LP with a CD. Nice music.
I mis-typed the Email address. Should be Q38P@aol.com
Cheers |
Rok, although the music was better than the movie, I had a tennis partner named Mike, and playing tennis plus taking pictures was all Mike wanted to do, so me and my tennis partner could relate to that. I don't think a CD ever came out, the LP is all I have.
Now that I have your e-mail I'll try and get back atcha in the AM.
Enjoy the music.
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Hi guys - saw this article this morning and thought you would be interested:
http://billplakemusic.org/2011/08/03/the-beginning-jazz-improvisers-biggest-mistake/ |
Learsfool, I'm glad you found the time to join us. That was a very good article, I liked the way it began with a comparison to life; "We speak and move spontaneously everyday with no real struggle". We improvise every day, (it's called living). After reading this article, I related it to my friend. Although he had been a professional musician almost all his life, he was a sideman with the greats we have talked about; not until he shook off all those shackles (playing this way, or that way) did he really come into his own. I saw the transformation, it's called faith; when a musician releases what's inside of him, that he didn't know existed, that's when the fantastic music flows. Of course this only comes after the musician has learned: tonality, harmony, song forms, time and rhythm, just to name some of the elements of music. I recently purchased some fantastic music that has a long story to go along with it. I first heard this music a long time ago, and didn't think much of it. Not until I saw the movie it was created for did the music hit me; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OKQdp6iGUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjURPebrbrYThis music penetrates into the depths of how much one person can love another. Enjoy the music. |
Hi Orpheus - yes, I have seen that film, it's a good one, and of course a great soundtrack. I think we perhaps may have discussed it on this thread a long time ago?? |
