Jazzcourier, thank you for the wonderful account. I could not agree more concerning Warren Vache; a wonderful player who does not receive the attention nor recognition he deserves. You do a great job of describing his attributes as a player. While necessarily built-into your excellent description, I would only add that he is one of those players that has such a strong sense of swing and musical pulse that allows the rhythm section to do much more than keep time; or could play with NO rhythm section. The horn becomes the rhythmic anchor and provider of the forward impetus in the music; reminescent of players like Clark Terry and Sonny Rollins in that regard. Here is a good example of this; with one of my favorite piano players: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nmDhnymBwnc |
Rok, I didn't give that total performance a listen the first time. Although they started off with "stereotypical jazz", after that, they went into some really fine music. Since what they played in the beginning was to warm up the audience, even that was understandable. I saw and heard "Yusef Lateef" perform "Angel Eyes", that was magical. "Jive Samba" is one of my favorite tunes, and Nat Adderley was superb, he played his heart out. That extended version was fantastic, all of the musicians played beautifully; every last one of them was at the top of his game when this was performed. That was a marvelous contribution, and here it is for others to enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Fo_2Jz9EM |
All due respect to Dick Hyman and his little repertory group at the 92nd st. Y.I have this session fresh in my mind as i just found the lp at as swap meet for a buck and have owned the cd for many years.This music is representative of what was known as the "Jazz Party" circuit which enjoyed an audience in the 70's and 80's and struggled into the 90's and sputtered out as the new century came in.This idea was fostered by Dick Gibson who started his Colorado Jazz party in the late 60's.These were private Jazz festivals that usually hosted around 25 likeminded musicians and the audience was made up of older fans who could travel to these events and spend the weekend with some great players in intimate and casual settings.The players ranged from Swing era vets,seasoned traditional oriented players and much in between.The Eddie Condon school always had a place with some free swinging,hard driving,vein bursting playing.Pretty much a celebration of pre- Bop music.I heard many greats at some of these events,and got to hang out with the players in casual settings afterhours when many the bottom of a bottle was visible as the sun came up.Joe Venuti,Bud Freeman,lots of great players.We got to spend the afternoon with drummmer Gus Johnson and took him to the San Diego Zoo,that is a great memory as Gus stopped playing not too long after that and passed.We talked a lot about Charlie Parker, as he was the drummer with Jay McShann's Orchestra when Bird made those records for Decca and they traveled together.I was about the same age as the "younger" players who were invited.
One of those was the brilliant Warren Vache who performs on the Hyman recording.Warren was just hitting his late 30's and playing some remarkable trumpet and cornet,as he does on that recording,as a matter of fact he outplays everybody on that date,his solos are simply incandescent.Warm and intense like Bobby Hackett.With the wit and charm of Ruby Braff.He is such a gifted player who gets little recognition nowadays,this is a pity as his last few cd's are about as good brass playing as you can hear today.This is just meat and potatoes Jazz improvisation.People always lament that this kind of honest music has died out,well it is still alive in Warren Vache and you would do yourself a solid to seek out his most recent works.They are a thing of beauty. |
on second thought I think you meant the thingy at the Y. I didn't like it very much either. BTW, Check out Kenny Barron!
Cheers |
O-10:
"No Rok, I didn't like it"
you didn't like the Cannonball CD? I can't believe it!
Cheers |
Kenny Barron was on several albums with Stan Getz-Anniversary, Serenity, People Time, and Bossas and Ballads. They had a real connection musically. Kenny is on a lot of stuff as a sideman and has done a lot of stuff as a leader. |
No Rok, I didn't like it. While I'm a big fan of each individual musician that was in that group, I didn't like the music. That band sounded like "Bird" was leading it, are you sure he wasn't there. The man blowing that horn was not "Yusef lateef", but a musician who was getting paid to blow a certain type of music, that I call "stereotypical" jazz.
If that had been "Bird" and one of his groups, I would have appreciated that very same music, but it wasn't; it was an imitation of his music long after "Bird" has gone to that big band in the sky.
As you know, I'm also a big fan of "Horace Silver", but his live performances overseas can also produce what the audience expects as opposed to some creative music. Musicians had to make a living, and that's exactly what those musicians were doing.
Enjoy the music.
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Pnmeyer:
You mentioned Kenny Barron in a previous post, so I thought I would give him a listen. Had not in a few years.
Kenny Barron -- Other Places
This CD passed my most difficult test. When you have a few thousand CDs of all genres, you tend to not suffer mediocrity very long. A track or two of saying nothing, and back on the rack it goes.
This CD was capitivating. I heard it all the way thru, and listened to the title track twice. This is just great music, well played. Wanna put your feet on the ottoman close your eyes with your favorite drink? This is the one!
Bobby Hutcherson is on board, but the entire group is great. I will have to seek out more of Mr Barron. Thanks for the tip.
Cheers |
Today's Gem:
Cannonball Adderley Sextet -- Lugano 1963
Nat adderley, yusef lateef, joe zawinul, sam jones, louis hayes
Cannoball's best group playing at their best, well recorded, before a live European audience! It don't get no better than this.
I have never heard a cannonball group play this, in your face, before. This is sort of like cannonball's magical moment that mingus had at antibes.
O-10 thinks 'something else' is cannonball's best and one of the best Jazz recordings ever. hmmmmmmmmmm. better check this one out.
Great soloing throughout the entire program. Good live ambience.
Just before they launch into 'trouble in mind', julian talks about the lack of the blues in 'modern' jazz. (Which is what really seperates the men from the boys!)
yusef and jones then proceed to tear the house down on 'trouble in mind'. yusef on oboe. he played flute, tenor sax and oboe during the set.
yusef (flute) and nat are also awesome on 'jive samba'
'Dizzy's business' and 'work song' also appear.
as julian is so fond of saying, "check it out"
Cheers
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Correction: "Flight" is orchestrated by Michel Legrand, not Eddie Sauter, who orchestrated another of Getz's great records with orchestra; "Focus". |
Now for something really special. Not available on record, but what a document this is! Two masters representing the epitome of the two very different styles that we have been discussing; playing side by side. Different, and equally brilliant; IMO. Rok, you can come back now :-) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aCdeJwGs818 |
Enjoyed the Chico Hamilton cuts, thanks. One of my favorite Stan Getz recordings, this is surely one of, if not THE, most interesting of Stan Getz's records; and described by him as his favorite. I don't know how anyone can doubt Getz's genius after listening to this. Eddie Sauter wrote the orchestrations and left Getz only to improvise over the spaces in the pre-composed score. He is on fire. Roy Haynes on drums is equally brilliant. Rok, I think you should leave the room for a few minutes :-) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2LD67xZgco |
With a title like:
'The Kingdom Of Swing & The Republic of OOP BOP SH'BAM'
I was expecting something on the order of Sun Ra meets Gleen Miller! Turned out to be a very nice straight ahead session from the 92nd street Y in NYC. Another production by Dick Hyman.
Live recording. The audience seemed to be into it. Nice solos on several of the tracks. Good bass playing by Milt Hinton on 'Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho' Joe Wilder is on board on trumpet. One of my favorites.
An alternate title might have been 'Professionals at Work'. Another day at the office. Very good, but nothing spectacular. But then again this is essentially a pickup band. They don't play together as a rule. Sort of like the USA Basketball team.
Cheers |
Chico Hamilton! Talk about a blast out of the past. Have a few of him on LP. Nothing on CD. That means he did not make a great impression on me. I listened to 'Mysterious Maiden'. Good mood music. New Age?? Did not grab my attention. To be the leader, he sure seems to disappear on some of his tracks.
BTW, when I saw the IMPULSE label, I thought, COLTRANE! :)
Cheers |
O-10 Thanks for the great music posts. I gotta get some. I would tell Frogman thanks but I can't connect to his. And Frogman, Rok2id and Pnmeyer I was born in '56 and never exposed to a lot of jazz so some of these is new to me but checking it out is some great stuff. Thanks. |
Pnmeyer:
Got the Koln Concert on LP while in Germany, about a zillion years ago. Have since got it on CD. It exposed me to something different. One of my favorites now. I think the last Jarrett I purchased was him with Charlie Haden. 'JASMINE' I am not sure he will ever surpass KOLN.
Cheers |
"Paul Desmond, who Bird considered one of his favorite alto players (now, THAT'S food for thought!) "
More like Heresy or indigestion!!
Cheers |
Rok,
Really like Elian. Your mention of Jarret spurred me to mention his Koln Concert album, which I have loved since college. It was the perfect album to put on the turntable at 4:00 a.m. after coming home from a party. |
Chico Hamilton, who was a West Coast drummer, evolved into one of my favorite musicians. I never thought of him as a drummer, for the same reason I never thought of Mingus as a bassist. They were just very creative musicians. After the West Coast thing, Chico captured my attention with "Conquistadores". I played it over and over; each time it sounded better than the time before. Here it is for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXdMnwERjG0 Now, I probably have more Chico Hamilton LP's and CD's than any other single artist; he comes out of so many different bags, that you never know what he's going to do next. I'll just give you whatever I can find that's on you tube which is also in my collection. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWB9ZN1lFLU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPbKEILdeKkEnjoy the music. |
Next up, after the gym
Jazz in July
Live at the 92nd ST. Y
The Kingdom Of Swing & The Republic of OOP BOP SH'BAM
has to be the greatest album name in Jazz history
Cheers |
I was referring to the Pepper +11; for the record. |
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Elian Elias -- Solos and Duets w/ Herbie Hancock
11 tracks of which six are duets with Hancock. Great playing all around, but I think they pushed each other a little on the duets. I liked them best.
This is an all piano disc but more in the style of Jarrett. You won't be stupefied! A good disc to show off those 'uber alles' stereo systems.
Not casual music. Most of the track titles are familiar, but you have to pay attention.
When they play together you have to ask yourself, how do they do that? Not a misstep and all improvised. This is the type disc that shows just how much talent it takes to be a musician.
BTW, my sub low fi Polks reproduced the pianos just fine!
Cheers |
No Rok, you wont hear that in a coffee shop. |
Today's Reviews (stop all that groaning!)
Art Pepper -- Art Pepper + Eleven (SACD)
I put this in the player and got my note pad to make notes. After the third track I gave up. What Can One Say? (amadeus)
This is 10 stars!! No Filler. No wasted notes. All tracks are great, even the alternate takes.
This group is very, very tight. Very well rehearsed. Great arrangements. I love playing like this. Up-tempo and very together. All solos were short and to the point. No blowing just to be blowing. I can't say which were best, the reeds or the brass. They were both playing out of their heads. And although they did not solo, gotta give the bass player and the drummer a lot of love also
I don't know what coast these guys are from, but on this date, they played Jazz!! Nuff said.
I have 'pepper meets the rhythm section' and this one. I must research his output and get more.
You will not hear this in a coffee shop. :)
As usual I will leave the technical analysis to Frogman.
Cheers |
Frogman:
If you don't feel that your 'faith' is the only correct one, then you don't have much 'faith. Sounds awful in this political correct world, but it's the truth.
Cheers |
****Keep the faith****
Ah, but I wish we could all agree that many of the world's problems are rooted in the fact that many of the faithful feel that their faith is THE ONLY ONE.
Cheers to you too. |
The subject of stylistic influence in jazz is a fascinating one. As Orpheus10 points out, sometimes a player comes along that has such a profound influence that in spite of most jazz players' commitment to individuality and aversion to copy-catying, the influence is just too strong to avoid entirely. But, if we dig a little deeper we find there is more to the process than meets the eye. There are many parallels between jazz evolution and evolution in nature. What is it that causes a "Bird" to come along? Or a Coltrane? Players that cause an entire art form to shift and move in a different direction. Is it a slow process of adaption and change according to the subtle influences that a pool of many musicians, individually, have on the overall style that creates a departure from an established style (swing) and causes it to gradually evolve into a drastically different new style (bebop)? A kind of survival of the fittest. Or is it that a player suddenly comes along with something entirely new and different? A mutation of sorts. Pnmeyer mentions Sonny Stitt; one of my favorites, and a player that was so hell-bent (like Pepper) on not being type-cast as a Bird copy-cat that he started to play tenor and not just alto. His story (as told by Stitt himself), as it relates to the subject of stylistic influence, is a fascinating one. Around the time that Bird was gaining prominence, musicians that would pass through Stitt's home town would comment on how much his playing sounded like this new guy from Kansas City (Parker). Stitt had never even heard Parker play. The rest is history; but interesting food for thought, IMO. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2i4_K6E6-nQ |
When this "West Coast" jazz was current, I thought it was slow and "lame", now,some of it sounds quite "hip", possibly because I can appreciate "cerebral" music more. This much West Coast certainly wasn't available at my "mid west" record store when it was new, and what was available disappeared. I believe that's what's going to happen all over again. I suggest everyone thoroughly browse these CD's. Here's Gerry Mulligan doing "I Want To Live". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Ne0Ig9lDUEnjoy the music. |
Pnmeyer:
Not from KC. Texas. But since we started this magical mystery tour in New Orleans, where we decided who started Jazz, and then went on to Cuba, where we defined Cuban Jazz and trashed the BVSC, and then they tried to go to Baghdad (I drew the line at that!).
Then it was on to NYC. Where the Frogman lectured us on the finer points of Jazz playing. When they decided to go to southern cal coffee houses, wearing leotards and 'BAN THE BEBOP" T-shirts, I just decided to wait for them in KC, since that would appear to be the next logical Jazz stop. Basie, Parker et al.. and right down the road from Miles' home. Also maybe the second most important city in all of Jazzdom!
But they could fake me out and continue on to that Mecca of 'COOL' improvisation, Bosie Idaho!. If they do that, I'm going home.
Keep the Faith!
Cheers |
"This one's for you, Rock"
A sad spectacle. I would not have believed it, if I could not see the clip.
Sort of makes my points.
Cheers |
Rok, the picture of a big burly man struttin around in leotards, put me in stitches, I couldn't stop laughing; and at a time when I needed a good joke.
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Charles1dad,
Clifford Brown was amazing; died way too young. Although I am usually not a big fan of the "with strings" types of albums, Clifford's is great. Dexter Gordon was great too. Very smooth and silky. I have heard of Sonny Stitt numerous times, but for whatever reason, never listened to him. Because of your post, I plan to change that. Also plan to listen to Victor Feldman. One piano player I really like is Kenny Barron. He had a real musical connection with Stan Getz. |
Pnmyer,
I feel as you do, you can enjoy musicians equally while acknowledging they may occupy different levels of technical ability and overall influence.I know that Chet isn't the masterful trumpeter that Clifford Brown was yet I can listen to both and really connect. Both could express much emotion through their horns.Victor Feldman didn't attain the stature of Oscar Peterson but you know what, I love his piano and vibraphone playing.Dexter Gordon, a fabulous tenor player but many don't know who he is.Paul Desmond gets much deserved recognition but I prefer Sonny Stitt (Sonny who?).This is why jazz is great, so many wonderful musicians, all with their own special voice.We get the chance to hear them all if we so choose.
Regards, |
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Rok,
You from Kansas City? No wonder you are standing up for Bird. (He was definitely a great one!) So, do you like Count Basie too (another Kansas City likes to claim as its own)? I saw the Count twice, once at Fulton College in Missouri in '74 (I went to Mizzou) after he was coming back from receiving the keys of the city from Kansas City. He had alot of his former stars playing that night-Harry "Sweets" Edison, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Al Grey to name a few--and the band was in great form. A few years later, I saw Count Basie at the Willowbrook Ballroom near Chicago. Different band and experience, but during a break, the Count was standing on the side of the stage and I walked up to him and said hello. I was fresh out of college at the time. He was very gracious and we talked for a couple of minutes. Great memories. |
Well, I ain't going to no coffee house in southern cal in no leotards!!
Y'all can pick me up on the way back. In Kanasa City.
Cheers |
If I told you I went west, and believed in all my heart that I in fact went west, when after looking at a map, you discovered I went east; I would have told you a forgivable "untruth". Such is the case of one Mr. Art Pepper.
After listening to some fantastic music by Mr. Art Pepper, I discovered he was mistaken in regard to the "Bird's" influence on his playing; however, there is no mistake in regard to Mr. Pepper's talents as a jazz alto saxophonist.
Art Pepper + Eleven has a stellar cast of "West Coast" jazz musicians, and Mr. Pepper sounds more "east coast" than any of them, such was the case of "Bird's" influence. His spell over jazz in the 50's was so strong, that even those who made every effort to avoid it, came under it's magic, and such was the case of one Mr. Art Pepper. By any standards, this CD is tops.
Enjoy the music.
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Pnmeyer, very well put. Once upon a time, I thought like others in regard to who was the best, now I appreciate the same musicians you like, except I appreciate them more than before.
Enjoy the music. |
Thanks, Orpheus10, and thanks for the great thread. |
Speaking of Jack Sheldon, here is a little trumpet by him along with a vocal by Linda Lawson. This music sprang from the west coast in that time frame as "West Coast" jazz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA81pRYtEXc |
"When Joanna Loved Me" I have a duet version of that by Frank Morgan and Kenny Burrell, it's just a beautiful song .Appreciate the video clip. |
Thanks Frogman, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that complexity is inherently superior but was simply trying to make a distinction between the two styles.You could say Hamptom Hawes or Carl Perkins is simpler than Bud Powell but it doesn't mean less enjoyed.
Regards, |
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Thank you Art Pepper for mentioning Lester Young.The single biggest influence on the evolution of Bird's style.
These were the records these musicians of this generation were listening to...Count Basie..."Lester leaps in" "Taxi war dance" "Tickle toe" the list goes on.There was a whole generation of saxophonists who nursed that approach to improvisation {Stan Getz}and there was another,later generation of players that followed Coleman Hawkins' more forceful and direct approach-John Coltrane.Then there was another that combined the two-Dexter Gordon/Gene Ammons.
Don't forget the impact of Ben Webster during the glorious Ellington late 30's,his influence on the concept of ballad playing is undeniable.Prez,Hawk,Ben all played their best music before the Bebop era and each grappled with their own private adaptation of what became the norm in Jazz.This all has to be considered in the mix.
Whatever Pepper says,everytime he picked up his horn and played one of those way uptempo tunes like "straight life" or something based on "Cherokee" he was gunning for Bird.That was the highest mark of the state of the art and the competition was fierce.That is simply the nature of the beast.Also by 1952 when Pepper was coming well into his own Parker was finished and all bets were off on who was the best.But who cares really? They were all great and amazing and thrilling and each had something special to bring.Some more than others.One of Lester Young's little sayings was "You can't join the throng until you write your own song".I leave you with that. |
To be clear I enjoy the west coast jazz genre very much, it just has a different feel from the harder edged east coast bop approach.I have lots of both.Idon't believe the west musicians were inferior to the east boppers, but will admit often the east style is more complex and in somes instances more ambitious. I can listen to Harold Land, Teddy Edwards or Richie kumuka or switch to Dexter Gordon, Sonny Stitt and Joe Henderson.I can really appreciate what they all play in their own way. Same with trumpeters Jack sheldon (underrated chops) or Fats Navarro, very different, I like them both.Pepper Adams or Gerry Mulligan? I can listen to either all day.I appreciate and respect the uniqueness of these beautiful musicians and am less incline to argue who's better than who.I wish I could play 10% as well as any of them.I'm happy to have their recordings and a system to play them.
Regards, |
I play the trumpet, was in my university's Jazz band in the '70s, and out of that experience began to love and explore Jazz. I love the West Coast cool sound. I also have to admit that I often prefer to listen to Paul Desmond over Charlie Parker and Chet Baker over Miles Davis, even though admittedly both Parker and Davis made larger contributions to the development of Jazz. I like Stan Getz's sound more than John Coltrane's. That is not to say that I don't like Coltrane, Davis and Parker (I do quite a bit), just that I like the sounds of the others more. As a trumpet player, I have always admired Chet Baker's sound, phrasing and improvisation. While hardly a technical virtuoso (e.g., he rarely approaches the top register), Chet Baker was able to create such a beautiful sound, almost flute-like, from his instrument. His ability to convey emotion with a sparsity of notes is amazing. His instincts when he improvized was exceptional. You can listen to 20 different recorded versions of one of his songs (e.g., My Funny Valentine) and each one is unique in a creative way. Was he the trailblazer that Miles was?--absolutely not--but both made contributions to Jazz and music in their own ways. I don't think we have to say they are on the same level in order to appreciate both. |
Rok, even though you're prone to take things out of context, I like you anyway; but if there was one big "Bird", and a lot of little birds imitating big "Bird", that was too many birds. In regard to "Birds" stature, that's unquestionable.
Many of the "Boppers" just weren't cool enough to understand "West Coast". It was like LA, laid back and in a hurry to get nowhere. This music was best appreciated in a coffee house where they recited poetry and the chicks wore leotards, "Can you dig it"?
Enjoy the music. |
