Jazz for aficionados
I finally reinstalled my CD Transport to the system and was digging through a box of disks a pulled out Doin’ Alright. Dexter Gordon, Freddie Hubbard, Horace Parlin, George Tucker, Al Harewood. Originally recorded on May 6, 1961 in the Rudy Van Gelder studio and reworked by RVG in 2003.
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@curiousjim, good for you. I recently sold my EVERSOLO DMP-A8 streamer, dac, preamp, so my Shanling ET3 Digital CD Transport is down right now too until I purchase another dac. I got about a thousand cd’s boxed up that I haven’t heard in years. |
@acman3 (and others too) I do not know why, but this album has been issued under few different titles. Check it out, if you have not already, its a nice one Zoot Sims with Bucky Pizzarelli and Buddy Rich https://youtu.be/qrYs3ZVCpSs?feature=shared This one too... Dave McKenna Quartet feat.Zoot Sims |
@curiousjim, @tyray, I haven't been playing CDs since forever until I started contributing to this forum. Much of my jazz is on CD, SACD, and DVD Audio. I have a twenty-year-old McCormack multi-disk player and run it through my Moon 280 D Streamer, which I think is a great product for the money. For people who get up in the morning like I do, not quite ready for the world, a great soft, pretty album is Jobim's "Wave." It soothes my brainwaves. |
@acman3 These two are perhaps also not known very well...just in case...
’Zoot at ease’ (on soprano and tenor) (1973) https://youtu.be/HYTbF6WabWk?feature=share Al Cohn and Zoot Sims ’Body and soul’ (same year, 1973) https://youtu.be/Rf_vF-rAxtA?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/67i_AhoFZRw?feature=shared https://youtu.be/8NwDVQG6T14?feature=shared
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@alexatpos Me too! Ditto.. Ben Webster | Coleman Hawkins | Tenor Giants | 1957 and 1959 | Full Double Album
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Jorge Ben - Samba Esquema Novo - 1963 Full Album @stuartk, this Jorge Ben album may be a good introduction to the music of Brasil as this album and especially the song ’Mas Que Nada!’ was a monster hit not only in Brasil but in the states too, for you to check out...And of course, everyone else here also. Jorge Ben Jor - The song Taj Mahal from the album Africa Brasil 1975 Jorge Ben changed his name to Jorge Ben Jor and in 1975 released the album Africa Brasil. At 2:23 of this song you will notice a striking resemblance to the Rod Stewart song of ’Do ya think I’m sexy’ and Jorge Ben Jor sued the ’bejeebers’ out of Rod Stewart for copyright infringement and won, big time. |
@alexatpos, I’ve been digging the Dave McKenna Quartet featuring Zoot Sims 1973 album also...Love the double bass scatting too! The Ben Webster | Coleman Hawkins | Tenor Giants | 1957 and 1959 | Full Double Album is one I own that I bought in mint condition from a buddy of mine who works at a pawn shop as he knew I am an album head and I’m going to share some of those here. |
@tyray , We have probably covered Webster and Hawk along these pages somewhere, but still, here are few albums that you might like that are perhaps not so 'obvious'... Gentle Ben, Webster with Tete Montoliu Trio https://youtu.be/2c_P1-m0ThQ?feature=shared Webster with Zawinul 'Soulmates' https://youtu.be/rjJ-g2_3nDY?feature=shared Webster with Tatum (ok, thats classic) https://youtu.be/Y2YMl5o8sck?feature=shared
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@alexatpos, Oh ok? Thanks man! Marcos Valle - The Lost Sessions - 1967 This guy is kinda like the Stevie Wonder of Brazil, with a prolific amount of music he has put out over the years. If you may be of interest in his music, click on this Marcos Valle - Topic link and you will find almost a 1000 videos with I don't know how many of his albums are there.
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Here’s another album I got from my pawn shop buddy: Charlie Byrd | For All We Know - Love Story recorded live at Basin Street West, San Francisco - 1971 Full Double Album I was gonna post ’SONNY CLARK TRIO The 1960 Sessions w/ George Duvivier and Max Roach’ Full Double Album but that was already posted here some years ago by @orpheus10, I think? |
@audio-b-dog I used to have over 5000 CD’s. I ripped a bunch and just plain gave away a bunch, but I still have about 2500 left. A lot are old favorites like the Beatles and I have many that aren’t on Amazon and Qobuz (the two services I currently have). So I’ll probably play a few hundred disks and then go back to streaming. I really enjoy finding new to me music especially Jazz. All the best. |
Thanks for the suggestions. I’ve been listening to a handful of other Jorge Ben albums already and a bunch of other MPB recordings. Perhaps hearing Clube Da Esquina first has ruined me for life. Nothing else I’ve heard (including by Milton) appeals to me by comparison. My hope was that C.D.E. would be a doorway into a whole new world of musical exploration like I experienced decades ago with Jazz but that’s not seeming to pan out. So much of what I’ve heard so far is what I call "terminally mellow", as if all the artists are stoned on a beach somewhere. I find this quite monotonous no matter how beautiful the melodies. Perhaps there are other genres of Brazilian music I might like that I simply haven't heard. |
@curiousjim, I have been pulling out a bunch of Brazilian CDs I forgot I had. I'm now listening to Selma Reis and Maris Monte. I listened to Jorge Ben yesterday, but my wife was home and I couldn't blast it, the way I think it needed to be. The recordings were made live in an arena and need to fill the hall. A question has arisen, though. I don't know if any of these are really jazz. They sound more like Brazilian popular music. I have many Brazilian (French, African, etc.) recordings whose genre I've never tried to distinguish. I love Angelique Kidjo, but I'm not sure I'd call it jazz. It doesn't really matter when I'm listening. I like what I like, but for this forum, it might matter? @stuartk, I think you need to take a couple things into consideration about what you like now and what you don't. First of all, hearing music live is a very different experience. There have been a number of artists I haven't liked until I hear them live. Then, our tastes change as we age. I think the reason I continue to listen to Tania Maria and Flora Purim is because they are jazz. A lot of the other music I have from Brazil is popular music. And quite frankly, I grew up with American popular music, have been more exposed to it, so I like it better. Even though I took some exotic tours when I was younger, I have returned to Paul Simon, The Band, etc., when it comes to popular music. |
@stuartk, you are welcome. I know exactly how you feel about certain Brazilian music genres as it is a acquired taste. I felt the same way when I was first exposed to blues jazz, be and hard bop, Miles, Dexter Gordon, Charlie Parker and a host of others were hard core herion addicts and it was a complete shock to me as a young man trying to learn the essence of jazz. I also think you listen to and know of far more about Brazilian music than you give yourself credit. For example you know what MPB is, were others may not. After hearing Clube Da Esquina has also ruined me and that is why I have described it as an OPUS, for sure. That’s also why I’ve tried to post here what I call Brazilian jazz, made by and for Brazilians other than the more Bossa Nova and MPB influenced tunes for the same reasons you state above. Unlike others, I don’t equate Bossa Nova to Jazz. I look at them as two different music mediums. Brazil does have a very big beach culture but there are far more mediums of music in Brazil. In the states we have about 40 different types of music were as in Brazil they have about 60 different types of music. Brazil was founded about 100 years before Plymouth Rock so they’ve had much more time to develop their music culture. I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of Hermeto Pascoal. Miles Davis referred to Hermeto Pascoal as "one of the most important musicians on the planet". He also called him "the most impressive musician in the world," according to Red Bull Music Academy Daily. These accolades highlight Davis’s high regard for Pascoal’s musical talent and innovation. Maybe try and re-introduce yourself to his music. I’ve actually seen a Candomble ceremony in Salvador, Bahia Brazil and other forms of Brazilian music up close and personal, being played by some masters of their craft so I have a very different outlook than just someone listening to an lp. One thing I do know. This jazz for aficionados thread is a stunning depository of music unlike anything I’ve ever seen or heard before. I wouldn’t be surprised if this thread is Smithsonian worthy.
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Thanks for your understanding and for sharing your knowledge and experience. I suspect I wouldn’t be frustrated if I didn’t believe, given the richness and diversity of Brazilian culture, there surely must be some style of Brazilian music that will appeal to me. Despite the tone of my previous post, I’m not ready to give up. I will check out H. Pascoal.
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No doubt you are right. I can’t help (whether consciously or unconsciously) but compare Brazilian Pop to the American music that’s far more familiar to me. I’m used to greater dynamic contrasts and variety of mood as opposed to the more understated, mellow MPB approach. Clube Da Esquina is not in this ultra mellow vein, however. The later "Milton" with H. Hancock and W. Shorter is good if not quite as timeless and and invigorating as Clube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85Qa0cnKRk&list=PLHsZtZLpiZPfHDJJBQf5irTiY9lXYCz0E I like Flora Purim but the 70’s Fusion-tinged recordings that I’ve revisited now sound pretty dated to me, although I haven’t listened to all of them. Yesterday I was listening to some of Airto’s early solo recordings, some of which feature Flora’s vocals. I hadn’t heard those before and am interested enough to listen some more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-NGZptgZw&list=OLAK5uy_kkRo-c0Q-7ABiby0BB_ZHrUuL74N50nMM&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJFMR_fzZI&list=OLAK5uy_kLkFvx7Av-CAb7Wy7psLg75H8YDiSllro I will make a point of going through Flora’s recordings more comprehensively to see if there are some that might appeal to me that I’ve either forgotten or never heard.
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@stuartk, You’ve already had a chance to check out Hermeto Pascoal here: tyray 740 posts 06-07-2023 at 08:20 pm I’d also suggest you do a search not only on his albums but check out some of his gigs with/on Miles albums too, and if you like any of them, post ’em here... Just in case anyone wants to know what Milton Nascimento album @stuartk and I are talking about it’s the Opus O Clube Da Esquina 1972 - Full Album. The whole entire album is a banger. You can tell he listened to a lot of the Beatles... |
Thanks. Somehow I missed your post the first time around. Am listening now -- I like this a lot! In a different category, but have you heard this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb6q_zzP2-8&list=OLAK5uy_nEEzClAHymfvLuGFg72vFUOOTkk8rrKOQ&index=5
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@stuartk, @tyray, the Flor Purim album I come back to again and again is "Encounter." I don't think it can be appreciated over computer speakers. I need to play it loud. I bought it when I was buying a lot of Flora Purim albums and for years it was the one I couldn't listen to. Just too abstract. Then one day it clicked and now it's my favorite of her albums. I think it is super sophisticated jazz. Probably the second of her albums is "Stories To Tell," and again her voice goes into abstraction. She can do things with her voice that I have never heard any other singer do. She can "hear" things that few singers can hear. You know how we were talking about everybody in a jazz band inferring the beat, yet nobody hitting right on the beat. She does the same with the melody. Once you can hear the inference... very, very cool! |
Fantastic, very good! Hermeto Pascoal's style of music is derived from the Northeast of Brazil from the town of Lagoa da Canoa in the state of Alagoas. No, I have not heard of Jorge Strunz of Costa Rica. In fact I can't say I've had the pleasure of listening to any Costa Rican music, that I know of? You gotta remember audiogon is a site dedicated to all sorts of audio equipment usage first, not just sharing music. So everyone's rig may be much different than someone else's rig. Some here have just a turntable an integrated amplifier/stereo receiver and a set of stand alone speakers. While others may or may not have a turntable, streamer and some just use their computer as their front end as a streamer and use powered speakers for playback, stand alone or desktop. I know you mean no harm, but I notice that sometimes you use absolutes in equipment usage without regarding what others may or may not have for music playback. Also keep in mind when we use youtube we use it only as an easy tool that we have at our disposal. Including all the function buttons at the top of the audiogon page where we post our messages to each other. I agree with you about Flora's voice. She is a Brazilian Sorceress with her voice inflections which draw you in and you gotta listen to her! |
Joyce Moreno - Aquarius 1975 (Full Album Stream) More of Joyce to come... |
@tyray, I get you on various people's audio gear. I do try to keep down my references to equipment. But some things you just can't get unless you can kick up the volume. I made reference to myself not being able to listen to Jorge Ben properly because my wife was home. I could tell that he wouldn't come across properly unless I played him loud, which I'll do the next time I have the house to myself. Flora Purim's "Encounter" is an album that requires a certain amount of volume. I never play it when my wife is home. Flora needs to take over the room. And I'm not judging anyones rig--I'm just saying she needs room. And I also wanted to let people know that I literally couldn't get what she was doing for many years. I'd try to take a taste and then have to turn her off. Eventually, she educated my ear. My neighbor has a fairly inexpensive stereo but he kicks it up (I know I can hear it next door), and he does fine with the Stones and other rock he listens to. He also loves my stereo and has pronounced that he will gladly inherit it when I die. And maybe he will, because nobody in my family has room for it or even knows how to turn it on. |
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Woe! Talk about improvisation...I wonder if Hermeto Pascoal ever did a gig with Sun Ra? The Strange World Of… Hermeto Pascoal ’The Sorcerer’ ’In terms of his influence on other musicians, most notably those he worked with directly, his unwavering dedication to a life of music and the uniqueness of his artistic vision, Hermeto Pascoal is almost without peer. It would not be an injustice to either musician, to compare him to Sun Ra.’ ’The chickens’ clucking sounds remarkably like a wah-wah guitar, before the whole thing explodes into the kind of wild, sculpted cacophony usually considered the preserve of Sun Ra.’ ’The same could equally be said of the occasional comparisons to Zappa elsewhere in Pascoal’s music.’ |
I’m not a Zappa fan and will confess to finding Pascoal difficult to get into, so far, aside from the early quartet album @tyray recommended. But I haven’t listened to all of his recordings so who knows what I might yet encounter.
Do you play an instrument/? I think it’s safe to say that those of us who do play tend to be more focused upon musical structure and performance factors (players’ technical and expressive abilities). These aspects are what my ears/brain are primarily attuned to and I wouldn’t have it any other way. When it comes to "getting" a piece of music, sonics don’t really enter into it, unless the sound is really abysmal.
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@stuartk, @tyray, I have loved music all of my life, back into elementary school. I have listened and enjoyed music on early transistor radios with little plastic ear pieces. I have always had a stereo, but for many years they were pretty cheap. I bought music and listened to it, and enjoyed it. That being said, there are a number of musicians who I didn't appreciate until I heard them live. Not just musicians, I did not like Puccini's operas until I heard them live. I needed the music to wash over me. Back to hips and brain. A lot of music appeals to my brain. Beethoven's string quartets, Bartok's string quartets, etc. Other music I need to wash over me. I just bought a new release of David Bowie's "Young Americans." I tried listening to it on a low volume because my wife was home. I set it aside until I could kick it up, and I am now listening to it loud. Maybe it's just me, and I've been to too many live concerts, but for me, some music just needs to be loud. I will repeat, I am not referring to the quality of the audio system. If I had my old, very inexpensive system, I would still need to listen to it loud. So, I'm not talking about high-quality audio here. I'm talking about hips, and @stuartk I think you and I are different in this regard. I like mind music, but I also like hip music. Who knows, maybe that's where the word "hip" comes from? Examples in jazz. I can listen to "Kind of Blue" at moderate levels and be quite satisfied. "Love Supreme" is a whole different story. Gotta' be loud for me. "Carmina Burana" has also got to be loud for me. I don't play the Stones at low levels. Mick Jagger said it--his music is about sex. Rock N' Roll is about sex. I had a friend who was a Beethoven scholar. We were talking about the structure of a symphony's movement. I don't think he liked my analysis, but I thought the movement was shaped like the sexual experience. It began with a theme, playing around with it, breaking it down and rebuilding it, all the while rising to a crescendo, lasting about 15 minutes. After it climaxed (I think an actual musical term) there was a come down period. To me, shaped just like the sexual experience. According to the documentary "Jazz," early jazz was about sex. It was played in houses of prostitution. Anyway, that's what Wynton Marsalis said. I do both, heady music and hip music. Great thing about Flora Purim's abstract singing is that it's both. That's the amazing power of women and why we love to hear them sing. They can do head and hips at the same time. (Men can, too, of course, but not quite as well in my book.) Maybe in the future I should say, "This is hip music. Turn it up." I admit to having made reference to good stereo equipment in the past, and I will be careful not to do so in the future. But saying, "Turn it up" has nothing to do with the quality of a stereo. This is hip music, man, let it wash over you. |
Apparently, I was more familiar with Jorge Strunz than I thought. It turns out he was one of the founders of the Latin jazz band Caldera. 'Caldera combined jazz, funk and rock with a wide variety of Latin music, influenced by 1970s fusion explorers like Return to Forever and Weather Report. The four albums Caldera released did not sell (well), and the band called it quits in 1979 (though three out of their four albums have been reissued on CD and digital except for their third album Time & Chance).' Of the four albums: Caldera (1976), Sky Islands (1977), Time and Chance (1978) and Dreamer (1979), I have three in my lp collection. Here is a wiki synopsis of Caldera's biography. |
RE: Caldera, I like "Dreamer" best but it’s very rare and hence, very expensive on CD. I’ve started listening to Joyce. Her voice has a fresh, invigorating quality I enjoy very much. "Feminina" has a nice variety of moods and tempos. Thanks for further elucidating your point. I typically listen at an average of 65-75 dB. I may approach 80 dB at times for short interludes but with my system, in my room, that’s plenty loud enough for me. Having abused my hearing with guitar amps for decades, I don’t want to risk doing any more damage at this point. ;o)
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@stuartk, @mahgister and @audio-b-dog, Yeah the band Caldera didn’t get hardly any promotion by the record company Capital even though they had some monster producers such as Wayne Henderson and Larry Dunn of Earth Wind & Fire. And what little I did listen to of Neotropical Nocturnes now I see where the Flamenco style guitar playing comes from. I’m going to take some time this week and really listen to it some more. @stuartk, your Spanish is impeccable, I didn't even know you could use a translator in audiogon. Thanks for the rip Stu.
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Thanks. I didn’t use a translator for that post -- I can still speak simply although I’ve forgotten most of my Spanish. When I need a translator I use BabelFish. I lived in Mexico 1970 - 1972 as an adolescent. I’d studied it in school before moving there but there’s nothing like immersing yourself in a culture when it comes to learning a language. And subsequently I lived in S. CA and worked in a restaurant with many Mexicanos. Durante esos anos, hablaba tan mucho Espanol como Ingles. Ahora, no hay mucha oportunidad para practicar -- solamente pedir comida en restaurantes o platicar con hombres que trabajan por PG&E cortando arboles cerca de lineas electricos. OK... my brain is getting tired !
Link for Feminina by Joyce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkmSIdeSGK8&list=PLy1Y3HHeUKJSpsbVNqaLGqnxFVIIs9GDW The more I listen to this, the more I like it. I'm going to continue exploring her music. |
@stuark, I don't listen much beyond 80db. Every now and then a song will push me into the mid 80s, but I watch it, too. I kind of blew my right ear sitting next to a speaker at a Delany and Bonnie concert many years ago. I now wear a hearing aid in that ear, which also tames tinitus. So, I listen with one ear analogue and one ear digital. Loud means different things to different people. Some people hear loud at 70db. A lot of music I listen to in the 60s or lower so it doesn't bother my wife. If I absolutely have to listen to something loud with her in the house, I resort to headphones. Although, I like the blast from speakers actually hitting my body. It can make a difference, even in some classical, like the 1812 Overture with its canons. I cued Joyce Moreno up on my streamer and will listen to Femina at my next listening session. |
I didn’t say you used a translator, I very simply said ’your Spanish is impeccable’. Can’t be more descriptive than that. I used the translator.
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Hope you like it! If not, there are certainly others to sample from her career. Did you already check out the one @tyray mentioned :"Natureza"? |
The word "nega" in Portuguese is a pejorative to black women not only in Brazil but in other countries as well so be very careful when singing it and speaking it. Just saying.
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I know you had no idea and no worries at all with you and I, we’re cool. But you say this is ’interesting’? Not in the least. About the song, lol! Hell no! I don’t and didn’t like it and it will not be played in my home. Although I wouldn’t call the word ’colloquial’ as colloquial to me anyway are words used in ’ordinary or familiar conversation’ with each other. Are the words Nega, Nego, Negão and Neguinho still being used in Brazil in conversation? Yes.
I probably wrote and put to much in my ’deatribe’ and didn’t mean to bring such a terse viceral conversation to this thread, but I was ’triggered’ as they say.
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@tyray, sorry if I had any part in triggering you. It is true that I had no idea what the word meant. I find all words interesting, especially ones that uncover hidden sentiments within a culture. But there are words that trigger me too, and I wouldn't be so objective about those words. I'm a writer and I have a thing for words, but I'm also a person who reacts strongly to certain words. Obviously, I wouldn't have posted the song or even mentioned it if I knew its meaning. Again, sorry if I triggered you. And you did hit the date right on target. I heard that song in 1975. I also heard Flora Purim being covered, and that's what got me into her. I've never really been a Wando fan. Don't know much about him, except what you've just told me. |
Glad you liked her! I have always had a affinity towards MPB, even more so than Bossa Nova. I like to call it, Brazilian FM! You, correction, I can listen to it all day, especially in Brazil.