Tyray, thanks for the Brazilian site. I'll check it out. I bought the Black Orpheus album when I was in high school in the early sixties. The film blew me away and then I went out and bought the album. I took it to college and played it all the time. That and Stravisnky's Firebird. I beat that album up pretty bad but I have a perfect copy in my collection now. I have a number of Elaine Elias CDs. But if you can, poke around, try to find Tania Maria. I think she'll blow you away. I heard her in L.A. a couple of times. You can't sit down and listen to her music. Another recording I'd recommend is Flora Purim's Encounter. I had that album for years and couldn't listen to it. It was too abstract for my ear. Then one day--boom--it hit me. I was totally into that s**t. I listen to her all the time when my wife isn't around. It's like nails scratching a blackboard to her. For Bossa Nova, the female voice that really gets to me is Maria Creuza. She's got this husky fragility that touches me. For the Salvador da Bahia music, try Maria Bethania. I have an album with her, Vinicius, and Toquinho in which they sing Samba Da Benacao which became famous in the French film A Man And A Woman, that famous samba you can't get out of your head once you've heard it.
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I don’t enjoy Rap for a variety of reasons. I haven’t listened to female rappers, so I don’t know whether they display a different perspective than the male rappers I’ve heard. To my ears, Rap sounds more like a spoken-word genre than music. Brazilian music is an area I’d like to explore more deeply. My favorite Brazilian recording is Milton Nascimento’s Clube Da Esquina , which is, of course, not jazz. You mentioned Flora Purim. I find much of her most popular work dated-sounding due to the Fusion influence that was dominant in the mid to late 70’s. However, I do enjoy her work in Chick Corea’s first, Latin-tinged Return to Forever group and her later "Perpetual Emotion’, which is in more of a mainstream Jazz vein.
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stuartk, yes you're right about the fusion aspect of Flora Purim. But I like it. I think Tania Maria might also have some of that. I like music you want to dance to. I can also listen to more cerebral jazz, though. With Flora Purim see if you can find the album Encounter. It is very abstract to my ear, but maybe some fusion in places. |
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Bobby Hutcherson - Happenings 1967 - ℗ 2006 Blue Note Records Remaster of Rudy Van Gelder Edition
’I just thought I’d share some vibes music today’
Associated Performer, Composer - Vibraphone (tracks 1-6), marimba, drums (track 7 only): Bobby Hutcherson Producer: Alfred Lion Mastering Engineer, Studio Personnel, Recording Engineer: Rudy Van Gelder Associated Performer - Piano, box full of rocks (track 7 only): Herbie Hancock Associated Performer - Bass (Vocal): Bob Cranshaw Associated Performer - Drums, marimba (track 7 only), triangle (tracks 2, 7), timpani (track 7 only): Joe Chambers Producer: Michael Cuscuna |
You might also enjoy this other Blue Note quartet with Hutcherson and Hancock: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bobby+hutcherson+Oblique |
Ah, OK. For me, rhythm is very important when it comes to listening in general,. When it comes to Jazz, I want the strong sense of rhythm that is one of the strengths of the genre present, but I want to be able to focus first and foremost upon the melodic/harmonic improvisational aspects. I wouldn't call this cerebral, though. Thinking is most definitely not what I want to be doing when listening to music!
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Stuartk, in the sense you're talking about it's a bit like listening to classical music. I am now listening to a Ravel string quartet. Ravel incorporated jazz into his later classical pieces. He came to America to hear jazz. He and Debussy had a heavy influence on modern classical music. Bartok, one of my favorite composers, said he was most influenced by Debussy. One of the problems I have with some of the jazz you're talking about is their lack of melody. They are often driven by rhythm, and there is a lack of what I would call a strong melodic hook. Perhaps I have not attuned my ear to their melodies. It took me years with many modern composers, like Shostakovitch whose piano concerto I'm now listening to. His melodies are a bit dissonent but they are there. I think a lot of the older jazz musicians based their music on themes that were standards, like "My Favorite Things." Then the melody is not a problem. Of course, Coltrane comes up with some heavy-duty melodies in "A Love Supreme" and Miles Davis in "Kinda Blue." A good melody is very hard to find, though, and I think some intricate jazz pieces eschew a strong melody and base their music on structural intricacy and rhythmic drive. Those are more difficult for me to listen to. |
Agreed -- no lack of melody when it comes to standards. Wayne Shorter is one of my favorite Jazz composers; although the chord changes can be fairly complex, the melodies can often be whistled. But perhaps "melodic" is in the mind of the listener. What sounds melodic to me might sound abstract to you.
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Stuartk, I listened to Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil. Love it. I went to see what it would cost used on vinyl. I don't want remastered because it has been digitized and Qobuz has it at 192khz, which is close to vinyl and probably as good as remastered. A 1967 release of the album in M- condition is in the hundreds of dollars. Too much. I'll enjoy streaming it. Thanks for the suggestion. |
In that case, check out Night Dreamer, Adam’s Apple and JuJu, as well. These are all pretty accessible. Etcetera is as personal favorite but may not be your cup of tea. Of course, Shorter was part of Miles’ "2nd Great Quintet". The All Seeing Eye is pretty out there, avant garde. Odyssey of Iska and Moto Grosso Feio are long, spacy, meandering jams. I haven’t heard Schizophrenia and The Soothsayer in a long time and don’t remember them much. I’ve never heard Supernova. As you strean, you should be able to check these out. I'd still start with the initial three I mentioned, though. RE: Hubbard, thanks. I’ve heard those. Have you heard Ready For Freddie, Breaking Point and Goin’ Up? |
Stuartk I’ve Qobuzzed all the Freddie Hubbard I can find. I like the two I have on album more than any others, which is a good thing. I’ve upgradded my rig lately and it sounds very good on vinyl. It’s difficult to listen to CDs and stream, although high sampling streaming does sound pretty good. I’ll check out your suggestions. Thanks. You’ve probably probably listened to Patricia Barber. Her album Clique sounds better streaming than anything else I’ve heard streaming. I like her singing but she’s damn good when she just plays jazz piano. |
stuartk, I think I'm getting an idea of what you might like. I thought of recommending Paul Desmond, but I have a feeling you've heard him and he doesn't have the complexity you're looking for. In that light, I might recommend Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders. Sometimes Pharoah Sanders screams with his horn. A friend of mine called it dinosaur music. When Pharoah and Coltrane would scream back and forth like dinosaurs communicating from miles away. He doesn't always, though, and a deep soul comes through his horn. Journey in Satchidananda would be the one album I would suggest. |
stuartk, BTW I don't think Patricia Barber and Diana Krall are equivalent, although I like them both. Diana Krall has some of the best recorded CDs I've ever heard. It doesn't sound as though you care that much about reproduction, but it makes a difference when it sounds like the music is live. If you listen to Clique (you need to stream it on something better than youtube) and you wait until Barber is done singing, you'll hear some damn good piano work. I turn on my turntable more and more because it sounds so much better than anything else. I am listening, however, to Wayne Shorter's Night Dreamer on Qobuz and it sounds very good. Better than a CD. Having a decent streamer is amazing. |
I only mentioned D. Krall because there seem to be many audiophiles whose "collection" of/familiarity with, Jazz singers is limited to these two artists. Please don’t interpret this as anything directed at you, personally. I’m familiar with "live music" being the preferred baseline for building systems but I haven’t heard such a system. What I’ve heard are systems that present recordings differently. The music has always sounded like recorded music, not live music. And that’s not an issue for me. This doesn’t mean that I don’t care about sonics. Sloppy bass, dry mids, fatiguing highs are examples of issues that distract me from focusing upon the music. If I’m emotionally and physically engaged, then I’m OK with "good enough". I don’t have a dedicated room, anyway, so from a practical point of view, it wouldn’t make much sense to strive for "you are at the venue" sonics. |
Fair enough about "live" music. I listened to music on a $100 Sears Silvertone stereo in college and enjoyed it well enough. I am sure there are faults I overlook in my system, although it sounds close to live to me and my friends, who aren't really audiophiles. It's taken me many years to cobble together a good system. A recent inheritance put me at a different level, but it was at best mid-fi most of my life. I enjoy both Krall and Barber, but I listen to many more female jazz vocalists than that. Cassandra Wilson is one of my favorites. Her album Traveling Miles is exceptional. I also like Morgana King from way back when. I have an album of Teresa Brewer singing with Stephan Grapelli. And then there are the Brazilian singers of which I have more than I can now name. I'm quite ecletic as you have probably figured out. I've liked the Wayne Shorter I've been playing for the last couple of days, but I broke it up with an interlude of Paul Simon's Rhythm of the Saints. I'm curious. What else do you listen to but jazz? Classical? Rock? I find elements of jazz in both. |
To clarify, if I had a dedicated room and the financial resources, I suspect my curiosity would most likely tempt me to explore the possibility of building a system whose presentation mimicked live music. I’m not fundamentally opposed to this but neither do I require such a presentation to be fully engrossed in music. Some Jazz vocalists I enjoy: Tina May, Betty Carter, Jackie Ryan, Anita O’ Day, Sarah Vaughan, Helen Merrill, Sheila Jordan. My listening tastes... Besides Jazz from 50’s to present day, I listen to a Classic Rock, Country, Blues, Old School Americana (The Band, G. Dead, etc. Classical solo piano (a new avenue of exploration for me) and a range of acoustic music from past and present that includes Newgrass, Celtic, singer-songwriter, Bluegrass, Folk (American and UK), and various blends of these genres. I tend to be album-focused rather than artist-focused and it’s not at all uncommon for me to own only one recording by a particular artist. An example is Aifoe O’ Donovan. I adore her "in the Magic Hour" but to me, everything else I’ve heard by her pales by comparison. |
In regards to your audio setup, I suggest your next purchase be a streamer that will both play through your stereo and offer a headphone jack. Then you can listen through a decent set of headphones. There are a number of reasonably priced streamers. My method of buying audio equipment has mostly been to read reviews and look for something used. Why the streamer? When I, or anyone else, suggests an album, it will 99% likely be on Qobuz or Tidal. You can also load Qobuz, which is now $10 a month, on a computer as an interface. People used to tell me about albums and I didn't want to lay out the cash to experiment. You suggested Wayne Shorter and I have probably found every album of consequence he's ever done on Qobuz. Too many for me to listen to. On to music. I went to see The Dead a number of times in the sixties when I was going to Berkeley. I have one of their albums which I don't play often. I do, however, really like David Grisman. I have a album with him and Stephan Grapelli, who I saw live many, many years ago. Stephan Grapelli died in 1997. He was a member of the famous Django Rheinhardt Hot Club, an early French jazz band. Rheinhardt had three finger of his left hand (on the fret board) blown off in WWI, yet he was still considered one of the greatest jazz guitarists. Hot Dawg is another of David Grisman's albums I really like. He played "Dawg music." There is a world of great young jazz singers. When somebody tells me about one, I jot down their name and head for Qobuz. That way I can listen to everything suggested to me. I absolutely do not want to get stuck in the past! Regarding classical piano, I love Debussy. At times, he is very close to the best jazz. Another piece that I think is wonderful is Schubert's Impomptus. They are absolutely beautiful. If you poke around for it on youtube, I think you can find Mitsuko Uchida. She has the most wonderful touch. I have heard the Impomptus by many pianists, but she is my absolute favorite. |
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stuartk, I don't know what a PM is. Sorry, although I worked in the computer industry for many years, I left it around 2,000, and I fall behind. Spotify is streaming and has a lot of music. Qobuz has more classical music and jazz, I think, but I don't know for sure. I don't know how good your audio rig is, so I don't know if you'd hear the higher quality of Qobuz. On my stereo it blows away CDs and anything else but vinyl. If you don't care about that, then see if you can find all the jazz and classical you want on spotify. I am now listening to Wayne Shorter's last album "Live at the Detroit Jazz Festival" at 96 khz, more than double the resolution of a CD. I chose that Wayne Shorter album because it has Esperanza Spaulding, a force of nature. It's quite abstract and I don't know how abstract you like music. I have a feeling you might like this. Does spotify have it? If you wanted to dabble in Qobuz, you can buy a D/A converter at Schiit (in California) for $119. Pick up an audio USB cable and hook it to your computer with Qobuz. A pair of interconnects to your receiver or preamp or whatever and you're in business. At $10 a month you can see if you like it. Listen to Mitsuko Uchida playing Schubert's Impromptus on youtube, and if you like it you can pick up the CD. I have heard so many pianists play it I can't count them all. To me, Uchida is the best. She can touch the keys with such a light, sparkling stroke it's amazing. See if you can find Bartok's String Quartets. The 5th and 6th are his best. If you can get into Bartok, you've found a whole new universe.
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Stuartk, try to find Debussy's Preludes and Images for piano. Many people think that Arturo Benedetti is the best pianist for this. He is brilliant and exacting. Pierre-Laurent Aimard has a bit more emotion. Phillipe Entremont leans into emotion. Perhaps the best interpreter is Walter Gieseking, but he died long ago before modern recordings, yet I find his CDs to be fine. You can even buy a CD of Debussy playing some of his own music which he recorded on piano roll. If you could find an inexpensive set of Gieseking playing Debussy's piano works (5 CDs), I'd go for it. I don't think anyone is considered to be better than him. He may have even studied with Debussy. I can't remember. |
stuartk, Cambridge Audio also makes a Dacmagic 200 for $399. It is both a headphone amp and will plug into your stereo. You can't do both at once, but who wants to? Again, you could use your computer as a front end interface for spotify, Tidal, or Qobuz. I don't know how many CDs you buy, but depending on how good your CD player is, you probably won't need to with this rig. |
I bought a Moon 280D recently for $4k. It's so good, I simply don't play any of my 1200 CDs anymore. If you wanted to splurge, I saw one used on eBay for $1500. It will literally make your CDs and your CD player something of the past. It has an interface on your phone or Ipad and you can pull up artists or albums or whatever really easily. My nextdoor neighbor is Greek and when he saw it he said it won't pull up world music. He couldn't come up with one Greek artist that wasn't on there. The abundance of music, however, is a function of Qobuz. |
Perhaps look under "my profile"? Perhaps it shows up differently on different devices. The Ken Burns video is, in my opinion, somewhat flawed in that he spent a disproportionate amount of time on early Jazz then rushed through subsequent eras/styles in much less detail. Still worth seeing but in my estimation, a rather lopsided presentation, as a whole. Briefly, on two other topics 1) for better or for worse, I prefer physical media and 2) I have a 5 cd set of Debussy solo piano works by Bavouzet and a single disc of Debussy Etudes by Uchida. |
PMs are entirely fine. Sharing contact info is the no no. We use private messaging all the time on this site. I’m mystified as to why you cannot access PMs, but I’m admittedly not very computer literate. I will respond to your question re: what I listen to, besides Jazz. Mostly acoustic genres: singer-songwriter, Americana, Folk, Celtic, Newgrass. These days, the lines between such genres are growing increasingly blurred. My current favorite relatively recent acquisition is Aoife O’Donovan’s "The Magic Hour". I’ll listen to Blues, Country (not the slick Nashville Pop with cowboy hats stuff) and classic Rock, as well. I’ve barely dipped my toe into Classical solo piano and would like to further explore the genre but it can be so time consuming comparing different versions of a particular Classical work in order to decide which to buy and I have to be in the right mood for Classical, which, admittedly, doesn’t occur very often. Another acoustic genre is the ECM sound, a more European take on Jazz with Classical, avant garde, European Folk and other ethnic influences. Similarly, I enjoy the group Oregon. I also like John McLaughlin’s acoustic work including My Goals Beyond, Extrapolation, Shakti and the trio with Al di Meola and Paco de Lucia. I could go on but I’ll call this enough for now.
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stuartk, I received your PM, but Audiogon says to me: You must have a verified phone number and payment method to send messages. I just went through an exercise to do confirm this, but apparently it didn't work. I'll look more deeply into this when I have time. @acman3 I first listened to Nancy Wilson when she first came out in the early sixties. I have many of her albums. I am not such a Cannonball Adderly fan, but I want to listen to him again now that must understanding of jazz is a bit deeper. Also, now that I'm streaming I can sample him. |
stuartk, yes I have heard him on "Kind of Blue," which is on my turntable as much as any other album. As I've read through the thread I saw the recording Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley mentioned. I found it in my record collection and am listening. It's in perfect shape! And I hear Cannonball flying high as I write. |
stuartk, I liked the album Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderly. I appreciate his playing, but the problem I have is that his riffs sound old to me. I've heard them before or something extremlely similar from other players of his period. I became more into jazz with the soul from Coltrane and Davis. I know they did bebop early on, but they both blossomed into something else. Jazz becomes more interesting to me with that soulful change. That's why I tend toward Pharoah Sanders, Alice Coltrane, and others who developed more into a soulful jazz sound. I have the same inclinations with classical music. I recognize that Haydn and Mozart were geniuses, but I become more involved with the Romantics, beginning with Beethoven. I do like the neo-classicists like Stravinksy, though. As someone said above, I like music that makes me feel like dancing, too. I have been playing an album by Lizz Wright called "Holding Space." Very soulful, but you can only get it through streaming. The more I hear modern jazz by living musicians the more I like it. I like the women sax players Melissa Aldana and Lakecia Benjamin. I feel as though they have something new to say that hasn't already been said by Coltrane or Wayne Shorter. |
Well, we all have our favorites. After your earlier comment about liking music that makes you dance, I was not expecting you to state a fondness for Alice Coltrane, J. Coltrane and P. Sanders! I like some of the recordings by these artists but not the more outside stuff. As I’ve aged, my enjoyment of atonality has subsided. Expressive techniques like overblowing are fine within an overall melodic context but the Free stuff is not for me, at this point. Here’s a tune from Kenny Garrett’s "songbook" album. I like the whole album but this is one of my favorite tracks that has a kind of trance-like effect. I guess you could dance to it, if you wanted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qkno-GGjms&list=OLAK5uy_nzRDhTQsYxrCuBNAomx-pAqToHlmWhfYg (I’m a sucker for modal grooves coupled with latin rhythms...) And here’s a live version, from an excellent show (the tune in question kicks off at about the 42 minute mark): :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrb2uaOXC0 RIP Kenny Kirkland
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stuartk, I appreciate their skill but probably wouldn't listen to them. Here is Coltrane at his best in my opinion. He takes off and flies above the band. His riffs are all his own. I'd know it was him even if I hadn't heard the song before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqpriUFsMQQ I don't listen to Coltrane when he screams with his horn. It's painful. I think it's supposed to be. But I love abstraction when it works. Here is an example of Flora Purim's abstractions when I think it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=watyACzR5n8 |
Yes; I’m familiar with both of those albums. I like Purim, too, but prefer her in this sort of setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0x0Tgf4ZHk&list=OLAK5uy_kCXtbLfAYXY8Rl-Mm8A43kVI5zu2XLd38&index=3 As Sly said "Diff’rent strokes..." ;o)
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