"Pepper Adams Plays Mingus", this is really boss. As you would expect, you won't get anything radically different from the original Mingus, but you will get something much "deeper" into the original Mingus; I know that sounds incredible, maybe even unbelievable, but true according to my ears. Alto Saxophone [Alto Sax] – Charles McPherson (tracks: 5, 7, 8) Baritone Saxophone [Baritone Sax] – Pepper Adams Bass – Bob Cranshaw (tracks: 5, 7, 8), Paul Chambers (3) (tracks: 1 to 4, 6, 9) Composed By [All Compositions By] – Charlie Mingus* Drums – Danny Richmond* Other [Essay By] – Alston Anderson, Mike Baillie Performer – Pepper Adams Octet (tracks: 5, 7, 8), Pepper Adams Quintet (tracks: 1 to 4, 6, 9) Piano – Hank Jones Reissue Producer – Jordi Pujol Tenor Saxophone [Tenor Sax] – Zoot Sims (tracks: 5, 7, 8) Trombone – Bennie Powell* (tracks: 5, 7, 8) Trumpet – Thad Jones When all of these musicians who have played with and been close to Mingus, go into his mind on these composition we get something that's "deeper" than the original. As a fan from the beginning, and someone whose heard the originals a "gozillion" times, I feel qualified to say this. "Haitian Fight Song" has "Pithecanthropus Erectus" morphed into it. I'm going to put them both on display for your comparison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIu87qCZnJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkcHSgfDdkIWhen you compare the two, you'll see where I'm coming from. Those musicians were unaware of the elements of "Pithecanthropus Erectus" they had incorporated into "Haitian Fight Song". Enjoy the music. |
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UT 24 --- OU 17
how bout them horns!!!!!!
hook'em
Cheers |
Bdp24:
I remember the first time I saw/heard a CD being played. It was in the mid-80's at the PX in Nuremberg, Germany. The Sony Representative was demonstrating the player. The remote control functions blew me away. I remember saying quietly, "thank You Lord".
No more clicks and pops. No more ritual to 'prepare' a record for play. It was amazing how much STUFF you needed just to play and maintain a record.
All now in my garage. Along with my once loved/prized Thorens.
Sometimes progress is actually better.
Cheers |
"Calcutta Blues"
Proto --Take Five.
Cheers |
It don't take much of Da Blues for me to git Da Blues, and when that happens I have to git back to jazz. By the way, I had a birthday in September, I am now two days older than black pepper; when you get my age you forget what you said two days ago, "So What"!
Enjoy the music.
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10-06-15: Orpheus10
*****Da Blues! "Let's cover Da Blues". *****
*****First and foremost, this thread is titled "Jazz For Aficionados"; it don't say nothing about "Blues For Aficionados". *****
You can't say our OP is not consistent.
Cheers. |
First and foremost, this thread is titled "Jazz For Aficionados"; it don't say nothing about "Blues For Aficionados". I'm putting this trolley back on the right track. We'll begin with "Jazz Impressions of Eurasia", this man was far ahead of time, "Mr. Dave Brubeck" I'm talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qNlHh4FiZoEnjoy the music. |
I too love the CD, Rok2id. Can you imagine having to suffer through listening to a long piece spread over multiple 78's?! When I was young and still living with the parents, I would fall asleep every night with Koss Pro-4AA phones on my head, waking up with the sound of the Shure M91e cartridge in my AR arm thump, thump, thumping away, bouncing off the LP's paper label. Now I put a CD in the drawer, and no worries. No more sweaty, sore ears, either! |
*****while his words capture the struggles of people living in the city on the lower economic level, and they do this with a delicate sensitivity. ****
The CD, THE LAST POETS, by a group of the same name, captures all one needs to know about lower economic people in the city. With delicate sensitivity??? That would a big fat NO!! ahahahaha
The Last Poets are not for the true believers or the PC crowd. Truth spoken there. The unvarnished kind!!
Cheers |
Bdp24:
I have read before about the playing time of the CD and LvB's 9th. Another reason I love the CD. No more change-overs during long classical pieces.
It's my understanding that the Japanese go gaga over the 9thSymphony. I can understand why, having about 20 performances of it myself.
Cheers |
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Born in Indonesia=not so much love of Bach? I can in no way relate to Asian music (it's scales sounding "foreign" to me is definitely a result of cultural, if not societal, conditioning), but the guys at Sony sure like Beethoven! Being able to fit the playing time of his 9th Symphony onto a single disc played a role in the development of the Redbook CD. |
Acman, Charenee Wade's offering the music of Gil Scott Heron, and Brian Jackson is a very sensitive work of art. When I consider the source of the comment that Gil Scott Herron sucks, that's a testament to the authenticity of this work. Gil Scott Heron is described as a "Jazz Poet", and Charenee Wade's vocals capture the musical aspects of his work, while his words capture the struggles of people living in the city on the lower economic level, and they do this with a delicate sensitivity. On "Peace Go With You Brother" it's about people who have been so close to him, that they feel the right to criticize. Instead of him saying, "get out of my face and my business" as he would have done in the past, he makes the soft statement "Peace Go With You Brother", there's no point in arguing. This album is a complete work of art, in other word each individual cut is a part of one unified work that makes a statement about trying to find peace, and at the same time survive in the inner city without violence, and continue the struggle for human rights; that's a tall order. Charenee and her musicians project a soft beauty that I could listen to all night long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ34PlV_K4UI chose this one to give an example of the soft beauty. Enjoy the music. |
*****Of course J.S.'s music was greatly influenced by his family environment, academic education, and faith, but are those considered "social conditions"? ******
Yes. There may have been other people with his 'genius', just born under the wrong Social Conditions. Wrong side of the tracks.
*****might as well say it springs from being alive! *****
Exactly. Being alive and being in the right time/place and conditions. If Elvis had been born in Montana instead of Mississippi, would we have ever known of him. I doubt it. Probably not too much Blues and Gospel on the Radio in Montana in the 50's. Or the 15's :)
*****It also minimizes and trivializes the role the individual plays in the creation of his music.******
We were speaking of an entire genre of music, not an individual. Some Blues players were considered great and they were successful, others were great and died in obscurity. Many more should not have quit their day jobs. We are speaking of the conditions that contributed to, or gave birth to the genre called Blues.
I wonder how far Bach's 'genius' reaches beyond the Western world. I love his music, but if I had been born in Indonesia, maybe not so much.
Cheers |
Of course J.S.'s music was greatly influenced by his family environment, academic education, and faith, but are those considered "social conditions"? That's a rather broad definition---might as well say it springs from being alive! It also minimizes and trivializes the role the individual plays in the creation of his music. There are instances of two different people having very similar backgrounds, having grown up in the same neighborhood, gone to the same school, church, etc, whose music's are very different from one another's. Sure environment influences a musician's creations, but his music springs from his need to create, above all. Perhaps it's just semantics, ay?
One artist who sang not only Jazz, but also Jump Blues and Rock n' Roll, was Big Joe Turner. He's my favorite Blues shouter of them all, whom I feel fortunate to have seen/heard live in the 90's, backed by The Blasters. In the band at the time was Lee Allen, sax player on many classic recordings by Little Richard, Fats Domino, and many other early Rock n' Rollers. Fantastic show! |
*****I learned a lot about the people of Mississippi from reading "Eudora Welty" and Faulkner******
I learned a lot about the people of Mississippi from being born and raised there.
I assume you are joking about Faulkner and Welty. Those people wrote fiction. Both had their own agenda.
Cheers |
*****While not wishing to be contrary, "all great music springs from social conditions" must be challenged! Bach's, for one, didn't. It sprung from his genius, and deep religious faith, neither of which do I consider a social condition.*****
Social condition does not have to mean anything negative. It can, but it does not have to. Bach sprang from a religious background. Maybe even an musical academic background. Those are social conditions. His environment.
Had Bach been born in a forest and raised by nomadic gypsies, hmmmmmmmm. no Brandenburg Concertos for sure.
Cheers |
Where have all the Bachs gone.....
I suspect they are out there but lost in the confusing swirl of modern social conditions.
Like most things social conditions were much simpler back in Bach's day. Progress, I suppose? |
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Mapman, you are a wise man. One of the worst things about Jazz and blues, is that the early recordings are so bad. Some people can listen thru the noise, I am not one of them. :( I have a lot of the early guys, Robert Johnson, Bessie Smith etc..., but seldom listen to them.
Question is, can there be Blues, other than the originals. Folks can play / cover blues songs, but that don't make it the Blues.
Cheers |
Beside "Albert King", who is my favorite, I like da wolfman, "Howlin Wolf", and my favorite tune by him is "Howlin For My Darlin". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dkdtmQ9cxQRok, gals at the Juke Joint could really shake it up off "Killing Floor". (Juke Joints in Chicago were bigger than the one's in the Delta) I didn't know we liked the same "Wolfman" until I posted. Enjoy the music. |
While not wishing to be contrary, "all great music springs from social conditions" must be challenged! Bach's, for one, didn't. It sprung from his genius, and deep religious faith, neither of which do I consider a social condition. |
One last thing: Poverty is an important part of our economic system. It's the motivator. It's what makes Capitalism work. If no one had to fear being poor, I think the morning rush hour, would be a lot less rushed. Some European Countries are trying to eliminate poverty by Government action. The people of those countries are paying through the nose, and they still can't do it. In the U.K., that entire country depends on the Government to an amazing degree. Unbelievable !! The Bible says there will always be poor people. They trick is, to not be one of them. Make smart moves in life. Cheers good for your southern soul https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tm6QEN7ABg |
*****"The women are all married to Uncle Sam". This statement is lower than whale feces; it blames the victim for the crime.*****
It's also, sadly, often true.
When the Government fulfills the role and esp the responsibilities normally reserved for the Male in a family unit, then that woman is married to the Government.
Not sure what 'crime' you are speaking of.
Cheers |
Its telling that there have been so many great blues singers over the years but its hard to say any are any greater or better than an original like Robert Johnson. If it happens, then its likely that what is being done is blues based but no longer purely the blues. The blues happens to be the great common denominator of a lot of music that has transpired since. |
"The Blues is the Truth"
Willie Dixon
Cheers |
Everyone has the right to sing the blues. But it would be nice if nobody ever had the inkling to actually do it. Will never happen in this world though I suppose. |
Classical and other forms of "higher" music can nourish the spirit, but even to a larger extent than otherwise possible thanks to the blues.
Its quite a synergistic relationship really. |
The blues transcends politics and demographics.
its a universal language. That's largely what makes it such a force of nature. |
Frogman, you might as well jump on in, but whatever it is were talking about, let us "quantify", How big is it? How much does it weigh? What caused it?. To suggest that people not working are lazy and want welfare is "Hogwash". You can not get a new car, new house, clothes and furniture on welfare. The best a person can do on welfare is get a bottle of wine to drown his sorrow.
If we are going to debate anything, let us be honest about it, and that's easy to do because we have instant information at our fingertips.
This foray into social aspects of the blues, is my doing, and I take full responsibility of anything adverse it causes. My thoughts and emotions, which are nothing new, have absolutely nothing to do with the music itself, but the social conditions of the creators of "The Delta Blues". Maybe it's best if we continue our regular scheduled broadcast, but I never fail to enjoy debating Rok, and maybe "the truth" has more than one side.
Enjoy the music.
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I may disagree (some times) with Rok about music, and certainly about communication style; but, truth be told, little else. |
Yes, I've heard of Appalachia; they seem to regard poverty as a minority disease they caught, and are ashamed of it, it's not politicians that hide non minority poverty, but the people themselves. Right now, non minority poverty is worse than it's ever been at any time other than the great depression. Non minorities make camps in the middle of nowhere, and live in busses, cars, trucks, and home made shacks; these are people who would be employed working a decent job if they had found one, but now they quit looking so no longer even count as unemployed.
Been to Detroit lately? Have you ever heard of the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement or the Trans Pacific Partnership? How about "Globalization"? All of those things stand for loss of jobs, and Mo money for the rich.
"The women are all married to Uncle Sam". This statement is lower than whale feces; it blames the victim for the crime.
"The Great Society" The political scam of the 20th century should go to conservatives for propagating as conventional wisdom that the Great Society programs of the 1960's were a misguided and failed social experiment that wasted taxpayers money. Nothing could be farther from the truth. (I'll discuss this at lenth if you like)
Detroit looked like the gleaming city of "Oz" in the 60's; remember "Motown". It looked that way because of all those assembly lines: Cadillac, Pontiac, Gray Hound Bus, and those are just the ones I remember; were paying top wages and going full blast. I saw more new cars on the streets of Detroit than I ever saw anywhere before or since. I also went to Mississippi, this was about the time "Ode To Billy Joe" came out. I thought I must have passed through some kind of time warp without knowing it; the service stations were even old fashioned, everything seemed to be from a different era.
I learned a lot about the people of Mississippi from reading "Eudora Welty" and Faulkner, the people got a kind of backwardness that's passed down from generation to generation; for example when things are going real bad, they say "It could be worse, you could have been born black".
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*****The most deprived people in the United States of America came out of the Mississippi Delta.*****
Ever heard of Appalachia? Probably not. No one had, until LBJ went there in 1960, while running for office. Of course, poverty in this country HAS to be Minority. Otherwise it's invisible to the politicians..
BTW, Black people in Mississippi were at the bottom of society legally, but not necessarily on the bottom socially. You had to be there to understand.
*****I saw some of those people after they caught that jet to Detroit and went to work on somebody's assembly line making top wages in the middle 60's to early 70's. People I visited lived in nice homes, drove new cars, and dressed elegantly. All people need is an opportunity, they'll do the rest.******
Been to Detroit lately? Better be able to speak Arabic. Many of those nice homes are now abandoned, and used as crack dens. No one works anymore. The women are all married to Uncle Sam. You would be amazed at the number of children fathered by the Government. I applied for a job in that department(baby making) once, but never received a reply.
So, what happened?? The Great Society happened. People sold their families and their souls for a welfare check. Ain't progress grand!!
Many people in Mississippi were poor in material wealth. They were not poor in spirit or Character. That would come later, in the Northern Inner-Cities.
Who left the South for the North, and who did not, is a fascinating discussion.
Cheers
Gil Scott-Heron still sucks. |
Rok, the slides on my first clip told us a lot about the Delta; those juke joints weren't as big as a lot of folks living rooms, and judging by the coats worn, they were only suitable when it was cool. The most deprived people in the United States of America came out of the Mississippi Delta. "I see a resilient people that contributed great things under trying conditions." Crap! Even when Black people were "resilient" enough, and worked hard enough to buy their own land, politicians made laws to to take it from them. Other people hear the music, I hear the denial of an education; that's probably the most authentic thing about "Delta Blues"; but the best thing about the Delta is all that deprivation made them leave in droves. Here's Albert KIng's "Cadillac Assembly Line", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfO1MhbJqsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOQE41oeHaYOne of the clips is for you to see Albert King, the other is for you to hear Albert King. I saw him so many times in the late 50's and early 60's, that I can close my eyes, see and hear him now. I saw some of those people after they caught that jet to Detroit and went to work on somebody's assembly line making top wages in the middle 60's to early 70's. People I visited lived in nice homes, drove new cars, and dressed elegantly. All people need is an opportunity, they'll do the rest. Today it's not just the people from the Delta who don't have the opportunity to earn an "honest living". Enjoy the music. |
Charenee Wade --
Not Blues, and the 'social commentary' escaped me. Nice tune and very good band. The music of Gil Scott-Heron??? I didn't think he or his work would rate someone 'doing' his music.
Cheers |
Acman, this is the very fist time I've heard this lady; she's as good as the great jazz divas of the past. What I like is no exaggerated scatin, everything just flows naturally.
I'll have to get this album.
Gil Scott Heron was a man who always had something heavy to say, he was no lightweight; I'm sure he would be proud of her interpretation and presentation of his words. It's good to hear there is new stuff out that I need to add to my collection.
"Peace Go With You Brother"
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Rok, your post was so beautifully accurate, that I'm not going to spoil the spell it cast by my ugly social comments.
Enjoy the music.
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There is only one Blues, and it's name is Delta. Not literally true, but close enough.
BTW, I think DELTA refers to the land bordering the river, and flatten by eons of flooding by the river, so we are speaking of Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. BTW, The richest soil on the planet.
The Blues does not travel well outside of it's time and place. It was taken to places like Memphis and Chicago by people from the Delta. There is a mild country-tinged version native to the Carolinas., called, Piedmont blues. All else is bogus.
The first step in understanding and appreciating the Blues, is to understand the language of the music. Double entendre is the norm.
You tend to look at the social conditions and see nothing but the bad, I see a resilient people that contributed great things under trying conditions. Blues, Spirituals, Gospel, Jazz, R&B and Rock & Roll. As Cannonball said, "It's not all the same thing, but it's all from the same thing".
Not bad for a bunch of share croppers.
BTW, all great music springs from social conditions, quite often, bad ones.
Cheers |
Correction! I should never post early in the morning; although I read this post twice, I didn't see a glaring error, "One set of tracks for the music, and another set of tracks for the music", That should of course read "One set of tracks for the music, and another set of tracks for the social factors surrounding the music".
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Da Blues! "Let's cover Da Blues". As some may know, I have an aversion to certain kinds of blues; it's not the music, but social factors surrounding the music that bother me. I don't hear the music, but see and hear all the social factors surrounding the music, I'm talking about "The Delta Blues". Let's follow this music down two parallel sets of tracks; one set of tracks for the music, and another for the music. As an aficionado, I want you to feel free to focus exclusively on the social factors or the music; maybe you are unaware of the social factors, and find them disturbing, that's when it's best to focus exclusively on the music. To move this vehicle forward, I've chosen "Juke Joint Blues", this is over an hour of music and slides that depict some aspects of the social factors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRZmqFxUaEEnjoy the music. |
O-10, I hope that you are correct about the future of Cuban music and that I am wrong. I would like to see nothing more than the preservation of the beautiful music or honest and interesting evolution. What I can say with certainty is that you are not correct about is the politics of it all. The Cuban government has been and continues to be one of the most corrupt and ruthless dictatorships. Perhaps it is the proximity to the U.S. and the beauty of the country, it's people and its music that has made it easy to romanticize, as has often been done, the reality of life in Cuba. Life in Cuba is replete with unjust laws and oppression and it is easy to assume that the people would prevail in a revolt against it until one is looking down the barrel of a gun or the prospect of jail (or worse) as countless have done. I am not sure this is the forum for more in-depth discussion of this topic, but if you would like to learn more about it based on personal experience feel free to pm me. Saludos. |
Frogman, I was unaware of government corruption in Cuba. I don't believe the kind of control the government exerts over the Chinese would be tolerated by the Cuban People; there is a limit, and if a united people say "NO", that's the limit. The government in China uses the military and the police to enforce their law. I'm not sure the police and military in Cuba would enforce unjust law. Another question is how does stuff that exploits the people become law?
Cuban music will compete with what exists in Miami now, and Cuban Music will win.
In regard to who is right, and who is wrong, only time will tell.
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This is an interesting subject, but easy to lose focus and not start discussing apples and oranges; at least as I interpret the comments, so please correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretations.
I thought that the original comments about Cuba's future had to do with the future of its music and the impact of Americanization on the music. I think there is little doubt that once there is real freedom in Cuba, not the kind of government controlled "freedom" that Communist countries like China flirt with, that we will see a real economic explosion in Cuba. What exists now, and what we will probably continue to see in the foreseeable future, is the kind of government control over every experiment in capitalism (freedom) that allows very little actual trickle down benefit to the masses while the corrupt government elite continue to take the lion's share of the influx of American $'s. Factoid: cost to an expat of renewing a Cuban passport $475 (!!!) (with additional "fees" every couple of years). Says it all in my opinion. But, I digress; back to the music. I think the point being made re the future of the music was that once there is true free exchange between Cuba and the U.S. (a mere 90 miles away) most of what we will see as Cuban culture and music will be indistinguishable from what exists in Miami now. |
****I'm sure you're both wrong about Cuba*****
Once I thought I was wrong, turned out I was not, so that is the only time I have been wrong. You don't get to be one of the world's foremost authorities, by being wrong on anything.
****While economically it looks like a third world country, the fact that it has an educational foundation plus unified people who have been around the block will make all the difference in the world going forward.****
I am not sure there are any more third world countries. Once we had first world Countires,(The West), and second world countries(communist Bloc) and then the un-aligned countries(third World).
In any event you are correct about the Cuban education system. They even export Medical Doctors and other science teachers to the rest of Central and South America. Having said that, when the Yanqui Dollar shows up, and travel restrictions are eased, those poor people will not stand a chance.
After a while, all those doctors will be practicing in large American cities. The "Brain Drain" will also impact the people.
I don't think, THAT, Eddie Fisher ever made it to East ST. Louis. :)
Cheers |
Rok and Frogman, I'm sure you're both wrong about Cuba, it's not a third world country. While economically it looks like a third world country, the fact that it has an educational foundation plus unified people who have been around the block will make all the difference in the world going forward.
Enjoy the music.
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