Jazz for aficionados


Jazz for aficionados

I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.

Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.

The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".

"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.

While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.

Enjoy the music.
orpheus10
I hear you pjw.
I often throw off  that line because nature seems to follow that route .Of course there are many exceptions .
Brm, brrm, yep, I’m still on a bike.

Checking on new postings. It seems that nothing is new...

Okie - dokie, keep on driving...


Nothing new mary jo? I guess you didn't like the Roy Buchanan song. What about the beautiful ballad by Hank Mobley? 
pjw, nothing new after schubert’ s last post.

Hank Mobley is great.

For Roy, can’t say that I adore it. You guessed that right.


Slow guitar...couple of songs from two famous guitar players,albums are from 70’s.

Tal Farlow, from ’A sign of times’ from 1976

https://youtu.be/q5VLW5gho6A

Kenny Burrell from ’Round midnight’ from 1972

https://youtu.be/EHcaNfy_ipo

https://youtu.be/FJgeqSxJnlE

....spaeaking of beautiful ballads on sax...how about this one?

Charlie Rouse
https://youtu.be/_I3WXYncRrA
Post removed 
I just read this rather scathing review of McCoy Tyner’s piano playing. I was shocked to put it mildly. Once again, the virtuosity vs. "soul/feeling/depth" is brought into play. I happen to think Tyner, although no Bill Evans, is a very good pianist. I enjoy his solos and his accompaniment and interplay on all of the Coltrane Impulse sessions are wonderful to me. How anyone can claim to know what musician has more heart and soul in his/her playing of any instrument or vocals is something I will never wrap my head around. Everyone listens and hears things differently and is entitled to their opinion. A trained classical music professor, who claims to be this wizard of music, who can rightfully review which singer/player exhibits more heart and soul then others is, to me, like the great Oz behind the curtain. A bigot and absorbed in his/her own opinions that disregards anything else. I pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!


Here is the review. I would appreciate any input on this from all the contributors here. And a few by those with experience in the musical field are welcome as well HINT - frogman!


The following is quoted from the review of the McCoy Tyner live at the Village Vanguard LP:


Among all my Jazz-CD’s - and there are many of them - this is by far the worst and disappointing one. And yet it is quite revealing. Many Jazz fans and critical reviewers celebrate Tyner as the best Jazz pianist alive. Although I have a huge respect for the musical quality of most Jazz, this shows me that the classic listeners and reviewers are musically just more educated and sophisticated than those in Jazz. Yes, there might be no Jazz pianist in history which has been more virtous than Tyner, and none which is technically better.

But as any classical educated piano professor will tell you, virtuosity makes no good pianist. And thats totally the case for Tyner. If I listen to his recordings, its always the same - huge accord clusterings, incredible fast playing, but no feel for the music, no elegance whatsoever and no interesting development or experimenting. His solos are really boring.

Just listen to Naima, one of the greatest pieces in Jazz. Start with the original Coltrane recording, the wonderful piano in it (NOT Tyner!), the feel for the music. Then listen to Breckers solo on the 2003 Directions in Music recording, playing an incredible interpretation of it, and then go to Tyners interpretation. Imagine how Bill Evans would play it. Then you have to stop this CD after 2 minutes. Its just terrible. Large parts he plays in fortissimo, with his usual style. I can’t believe how bad it is. The same is true for Crescent and all the other pieces.

Or listen to "After the rain". That is pure pop-kitsch at worst, with accords and harmonics I would expect on a MTV-music award show, but not on a Jazz-CD. Even Norah Jones is pure experimentation against it!

The question then remains: Why was he part of one of the greatest Jazz-quartets? I went back to all Coltrane CD’s including him. I can only say he was at the right place at the right time. His playing really does fit to Coltrane, all the fury, the virtuosity, the aggresive improvisation over one scale, but without Coltrane, he is just bad and totally lost. And indeed, the worst Coltrane pieces are those where Tyner has an extended solo, such as in "Afro-Blue" on "One up, one down". There you hear all his strict limitations in terms of harmony and developing an interesting solo.

The only way I could make it thru the  latter dense Coltrane records was to listen to Tyner as the centerpiece. A kind of an anchor.


pjw, some thoughts later when I have more time.  Until then, who was this “professor” and where did you read this? 
acman3 thanks for the links. Very informative and the concert was is fantastic.

frogman here is where I found the review. Scroll down its the first review by F. Hoffmann :

https://www.amazon.com/Mccoy-Tyner-Coltrane-Village-Vanguard/dp/B00005NRWZ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=mccoy...

This guy trashes Tyner then gives 5 star reviews to DJ mix electro dance music.
Well, I was trying really hard to come up with a tactful way of pointing out that there are qwacks in every profession, but after re-reading the McCoy “review” and it’s source I am breathing a sigh of relief. I have known many music professors over the years and while some were better than others, none have been qwacks; although, I’m sure they are out there. I am relieved because the “reviewer” is not a professor at all; he is simply an idiot. The first hint was his misuse of the term “accords”. Huh?! While he tries real hard, the way he writes about music and musicians is not the way a knowledgeable music professor would. Sealing the deal is the simple fact that he never says he is a professor. He only comments about what he thinks music professors would think about McCoy’s playing and he is dead wrong with his assumptions.

His comments about McCoy are ill-informed and mostly ridiculous; so, not much more to say about it. If he can’t hear the beauty and elegance (to use his term) in McCoy’s playing he is worse than an idiot:

https://youtu.be/7toKjKtbeeI

https://youtu.be/zu3aSjIOSyw
Thanks for your opinion and for the links frogman.


McCoy is one of my favorites right up there with Bill Evans and Oscar Peterson. Do you have the Oscar Peterson 8cd box set here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01018T3VC/?coliid=I2M5AESQHUS64N&colid=2MJEFFF7AFXNS&psc=0&re...

The price is steep and I wanted opinions on the sonics.


pjw and acman, thank you for the valuable links. Pjw, I like your attitude in this matter and I agree with it. You already said pretty much all at the very beginning. Fro, your answer is of great value. It shows us on what we should pay attention on, when reading anything related to the skill of the professional and highly rated musician. Thank you for that.

If the musician has the required technical skill (this is essential condition, so called sine qua non), that what remains to be noted is related to the pure personal taste of the listener.
The first user review for this clip. Love it:

“A sweet Jobim then fed through the Tyner mangle. Goes in as “Wave; comes out as “Tsunami”.

https://youtu.be/JF6KV2v4pqM

With another tsunami:

https://youtu.be/pG9UZwczSVg
Schubert, I had a friend say that once when I played Armstrong's "Hot 5's and Hot 7's". Had to laugh.
Well , Sidney was a mentor of Mr. Armstrong .Also the only Musician I've heard whose tone reminds me of a M-60 machine gun .
Anyone interested in McCoy Tyner's early sessions as a leader on the Impulse label here is a fantastic bargain. 6 albums for 12 dollars.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLCRVNT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just ordered mine!
Pjw8156, Let us know if you like the Impulse set and if it’s recorded decently. If so, I’ll order it. Great bargain for $12. Thanks for the link.

Mike
If McCoy is a tsunami, Bill Evans was a cool breeze at dawn.  Both originals.

https://youtu.be/QMyM6_Ygq60

Interesting about ”cartoon music”. We hear it now as quaint and humorous. It was the hip stuff back then. The new groundbreaking sound.


When I see or hear Lady Day I see and hear only profound sadness .
The love she needed was tough love , 5 years in a NY state prison if that was all that could be done .
In the 1940’s the very word jazz meant one thing to the American public at large , DRUGS .
pjw
thanks for the D Byrd cuts . I really liked Fancy Free and would buy it but only after I get his earlier Blue Note 60's stuff. Didn't care for Electric Byrd and the echo device used by him.
 Byrd was into the funky rhythms and extended vamps about the same time as Herbie Hancock  but I prefer Hancock's work in this genre a bit more.
With respect to that review you found on Amazon that guy is an idiot who found it necessary to trash Tyner because he doesn't like his style.
So much of this goes on in today's twitter  world I basically ignore it
It's probably a  guy who never played a note of music in his life and has no idea how much effort goes into being a professional musician.
Tyner has earned his rightful place in jazz history by being in one of themost groundbreaking groups in the 1960's and today is an elder statesman who continues to entertain many fans and probably music critics also.

nsp,

As for Byrd's 60's output don't pass up this gem which, IMHO, has great music and since your an LP guy the cover is a bonus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l8Rssn5XT4

Two of my favorite Jazzmen , Eddie Gomez and Jim Hall, with a different take on another favorite, "Waltz for Debby " .
https://youtu.be/w7xTidDeVV8?t=34
///When I see or hear Lady Day I see and hear only profound sadness .
The love she needed was tough love , 5 years in a NY state prison if that was all that could be done .
In the 1940’s the very word jazz meant one thing to the American public at large , DRUGS.///

Her "I am fool to want you" is the saddest song I have ever heard in my entire life. And that’s not even sadness. That is pain. Pure pain.
Just so mary jo, just so .
I thought of saying pain but no one can really know another persons pain .
pjwYes great cover. "Slow Drag" is on my list but I couldn't find a vinyl source on Amazon . Will have to search other sites. I like Donald Byrs's solo , especially his use of space , bent notes and slow development of his solo. 
Perhaps this comparation could be called a ’stretch’ one but this composition came to mine mind, after listening to ’Slow drag’....

...perhaps sounding a tad bit sinister...

John Coltrane’s ’Equinox’ from ’Coltrane’s sound’ from 1964

https://youtu.be/w5QGBHavF0U

..speaking of ’sinister’ notes, this one has my favourite intro (posted before)...

https://youtu.be/3rSbbCxija0
    alexatpos, Thanks for that "House of Blue Lights " ! Gonna try and round that up on vinyl.  Who's that bass player ? Sure laid down a beautiful beat .
Schubert, the bass player on that album is Wendell Marshall.

Here are few words about him from 'all music com'
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/wendell-marshall-mn0000244351/biography

discography.... (I guess everyone has some album where he played)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Marshall

one more from Eddie Costa, with Bill Evans and Wendell Marshall

https://youtu.be/FLsgwhjhNpc



I listened to the 4 discs of that new release of early McCoy Tyner sessions. It is an import but the sonics are fine. Each of the first 3 discs contain 2 full albums totaling 6. The 4th disc was a surprise. Its and Eric Dolphy lead group with Tyner on piano playing live in Munich. I found the recording session here:

https://www.amazon.com/Eric-Dolphy-Munich-Session-Mainstream/dp/B00KNYXZIC

The above album is presented in its entirety on disc 4 but the sonics on this are pretty bad compared to the first 3 discs. Still worth the price and I would buy it asap before its out of print and the price gouging starts. Here is the original link for the box set:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLCRVNT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


alex 

Thanks for the Eddie Costa links. On that last one he is listed as the Vibraphonist. A very talented musician.


Here is a cool trio session with Walter Bishop Jr. on piano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2R34reoQI

 I believe the first person that introduced McCoy Turner to me was the Principal Violinist of a prominent German Symphony Orchestra . He was also a major fan of Oscar Peterson as well .
Alan Broadbent “You, the Night and the Music,” Antonio Forcione “Sketches of Africa,” Duke Ellington “Far East Suite.”