I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
*****"The whole reason for Jazz at the Philharmonic was to take it to places where I could break down segregation and discrimination." Norman Granz, founder of Verve records*****
This is one of the most disgusting lies ever told. This greedy man did the JATP thing for one reason, and that reason was MONEY. He was not alone in exploiting black folks and their talents for personal gain.
I can assure you he made a lot more money from JATP than any player ever did. He probably made more money than all the players combined.
And if he really wanted to break down segregation and discrimination, why didn't we have a JATP at Memphis? New Orleans? Miami? St Louis? You get the picture. He went to Seattle, Sweden, Japan, LA, NYC etc ...all the safe places.
I read, or at least tried to read his book. What a load of BS. I didn't know if I was reading about some greedy music 'promoter', or the life of MLK. I soon put it down. Weak stomach.
To profit off of people who are under total oppression, and at a severe disadvantage under which there could never be an equal relationship, is nothing to be proud of, even if it puts a few bucks in the pockets of the oppressed.
It’s my understanding that this band, WAR, is not in that absurdity called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Do you laugh or Cry? I think it’s a point in their favor.
rok, I'm not familiar with anything done by WAR for a couple of decades. Are you saying whatever may have been done recently pales in comparison to their early efforts? If so, I can believe it. There are many bands (jazz, rock, blues, whatever) that started with something creative and interesting but were never able to sustain that.
By the way, the ghetto was paradise when this song came out compared to what it is today. I know blame the victim, but since I'm a long time student of sociology, I know better.
This is also closely related to "The American Dream"; it's not all Black and White, but class as well; Oh, I forgot, it's forbidden to discuss "Class" in the USA, just ask FOX TV if you think I'm lying.
The American Class System is based on money, or lack thereof. I'm good with that, because it allows movement up and down. In England, where you are born, is where you stay.
Check the size of the star on the Mercedes at 1:27. WOW!! Miles was great. The French, as usual, act like over aged, over heated, teenagers. I noticed that when I was in Europe. The clubs and discos had an older crowd than you would find in the U.S.
Trying to make up for the years lost during the war?
rok, thanks for bringing that forward. It remains one of my all time favorite do-wop numbers.
Now, this conversation seems to continue to reach back to "Elevator to the Scaffold". When I started college there was a foreign film series run on campus every Friday night. Not only was it a cheap date, it exposed me to many classic French, Italian, Swedish, British, and Japanese films. That was a huge awakening for me since my experience had previously focused on American westerns and comedies. Still, I somehow missed "Elevator", although I suspect it could have been included sometime.
Acman, very nice, will get this one. I have only one album where he plays, with Chet Baker, its only trumpet and piano....I recommend that one too... https://youtu.be/skSx-ECpzmw
Rok, that must be my favorite "doo wop", and I have a doo wop collection on reel to reel.
I'm not sure about the effect R&R had on "doo wop"; I think doo wop morphed into "Motown", like jazz morphed into "fusion".
Out of all the genres of music, "Rock" is least understood by me, because when you done heard one rocker screaming and wailing on a guitar, plus a drummer pounding my ear drums out, you done heard em all.
*****because when you done heard one rocker screaming and wailing on a guitar, plus a drummer pounding my ear drums out, you done heard em all.*****
Absolutely!! I didn't mean to say R&R harmed Doo Wop, it was Rock and Rockers. It / they, ruined it for everyone.
All the loud noise, drugs, absurd dress and conduct, were required in order to cover up the lack of talent. In the end It didn't work. Most are forgotten already, but we are still talking about Mingus, Miles and Monk ertc.....
WAR: I don't know how to classify them, but I put them in the same box as EW&F. Since all popular music musicians seem to be put in the R&R HOF, as crazy as that is, WAR should have been there on day one.
I understand they were being considered in the same class with "Chic" WTF!!!!
I said back in 2013 when this thread started, "we must defend the music".Everyone sneered.
Interesting about Doo Wop. I never considered it a separate category from R&R, rather as a sub-set. But to me it was clearly a contributor to and influence on the development of R&R. This may be original to the style -
Now, "All the loud noise, drugs, absurd dress and conduct". For me, that was the description of the '60s. And while I certainly agree with rok that many times with music it covered up a lack of talent, I believe that is too much of an oversimplification.
The "loud noise" developed from a couple of things. First, the transition to more electronically amplified instruments. Second, as rock grew in popularity it commanded larger and larger venues for performance, which in turn demanded more electronics. That wasn't only rockers. Young folks were demanding to be heard. Consider the evolution of Dylan.
"Drugs" were certainly a contributor to the development of R&R during the '60s. That had been some part of musical development and presentation previously but not to such an extent. But was that not a "chicken and egg" situation of the culture of the times? Tune in and drop out was not a musical expression.
Similarly, "absurd dress" was part of the search for identity among young people in the '60s. So dress, speech, and hair (facial and otherwise) were simply outward manifestations of separating youth from their parents. Music and musicians went along with that, but they were far from exclusive.
And "conduct" of young people may be considered as an overall manifestation. Free speech, sit-ins, flower power, question authority, don't trust anyone over 30 did not evolve from R&R. Those attitudes utilized music as one other form of expression.
The fact that jazz partially evolved during that decade, but still survived intact decades later is a testament to its underlying worth.
rok, I only have a couple of their albums. Here is one, but I couldn't find a link to the entire record, so this self-explanatory number will have to do -
*****Somebody said that rock was the white version of rock and roll.*****
Then somebody would be wrong. Two many great white rock and roll artist for that to be true. Elvis, Early Beatles, Elton John etc....
Rock&Roll, as I have said before, was mainly about teenage life and love. Everything from fast cars to broken hearts to slow drag at the prom.
Rock was always political in nature. The anti music. Violent and cynical. Without Viet Nam and the civil rights violence, it’s possible there would have been no such thing as Rock. It was not a happy or uplifting music. All your clips show this.
Your Highness (bowing as I back away)
Cheers
BTW, *****Regarding rock, I strongly disagree with uncle*****
What more proof do I need to know that I am right about Rock.
Mary_jo, I'm glad you presented your side of this discussion in music. I only see 2 that I'm familiar with; "While My Guitar Weeps" and "The End". That opening intro with the helicopter blades whirring tells me it's "Nam"; being a vet who's considered a Nam vet, but never went to Nam, I found "Apocalypse Now" quite fascinating, and the same for The Doors.
"Two many great white rock and roll artist for that to
be true. Elvis, Early Beatles, Elton John etc...."
True but that was obviously just a phrase.
However, don't let the cover of their skin mislead you.
"Rock&Roll, as I have said before, was mainly about
teenage life and love. Everything from
fast cars to broken hearts to slow drag at the prom."
So what? That's life too. And when we grow old, we sometimes
act like kids again. So what? That's life again with it's ups and downs.
„Rock was always political in nature. The anti music. Violent and cynical. Without Viet Nam and the civil rights
violence, it's possible there would have been no such thing as Rock.“
I think pryso explained that.
„It was not a happy or uplifting music. All your clips show this.“
Nor Jazz is always happy music.
I see Rock in a way our lives are and Jazz in a way our lives should be. I cannot explain that. Let's just say that Rock is 'too rocky' and Jazz is exactly how it should be.
This music was recorded in the private home of a rich German Industrialist in the Black Forest area of Germany 1963-1968. This resulted in 6 individual CDs being released. All were combined onto 4CDs for this issue.
What pisses me off is that I paid serious money to get the CD 'Girl Talk' from Japan. I had to have that album cover. Should have done my research.
Interesting comments. The term "rock & roll" became common in the mid-'50s. Many attribute it to Alan Freed, a radio DJ in Cleveland (ever wonder why the Rock and Roll Museum was located there?). He used it in reference to the combination of blues, country, and rhythm and blues he played on air. Along the way over time it became abbreviated as R&R in print and simply "rock" when mentioned verbally as well as in print media. The term rockers referred to both musicians and youngsters who favored that music.
My point in breaking down rok's comments was to dispute that list of elements as the cause for bad music. I consider the music of the '60s (rock) to have evolved from society, not the other way around. A reflection as it were. Now if rok has strong dislike for music he/she labels rock, fine. Personal opinions should always be welcomed. But I take issue with those elements as being a cause for bad music. Like all musical categories, I would hope we can agree there are both good and bad examples.
As I said, it is personal. Reviewing mary jo's list, for me it offers a good selection of rock. The main exception was the second Deep Purple song. That borders on heavy metal which is not my favorite. In fact for me heavy metal and acid rock are two sub-categories which could fit rok's list of elements. But someone else might choose to defend those. ;^)
Least we forget that o10 began this post with the subject being jazz, I'll offer this example of jazz-influenced rock to tie this together.
That too precedes Freed, which was why I said "many attribute", rather than suggest absolute authorship.
But hey, this is all for fun anyway. Now, back to your favorite jazz programming. ;^) Music for a Sunday, a different version that what I posted previously -
I never attempted to ascertain the different divisions in Rock, such as "Heavy Metal" or maybe "Rock a billy" or whatever; as a matter of fact, I have always liked Santana, but never considered him Rock.
Rok, you just messed up my thoughts; but in either case, as you know Rok, "Delta Blues" has never been my groove, but Ike Turner reminded me of one of my experiences.
I was walking past a club where Ike Turner played, and saw a pretty girl as I passed the window. She was sitting at a table with two other "grown women", and I could see she was a teenager dressed up to look older. I was 14, and determined to get a better look. This club was divided into two sections, and minors could come in the front part to buy potato chips or pop, but not the back part where the entertainment went on. All of a sudden I developed a taste for potato chips.
I went in and fortunately for me, the guy behind the bar was busy, that gave me the opportunity to walk down the bar to get a close look; she was one of the prettiest girls I had ever seen. The "Tina Turner" you have been accustomed to seeing is pretty, but she was even prettier when she was 16; I had sweet dreams that night.
While I enjoyed listening to your submissions Mary_jo,the only one I have is "The End", and that's for a rather strange reason.
When I was into fusion, I would have bought Jeff Beck's Pork Pie Hat, but not now. The records I bought then, I hardly play now; for example;
I don't know if it's apparent to everyone else, but when I listen to all this music, it's apparent to me, that I have been through many phases of music in life; when I was young and extremely active, I was more into music that reflected that; rock to some extent. Now that I'm more inactive, I want to be in a reflective groove;
There are two principles that I believe are really important to consider when discussing the relative merit of any music and that I have mentioned several times over the life of this thread. One is what I feel is the need for listeners who consider themselves true music lovers to have and to approach the listening experience with a certain amount of humility. What I mean by this is that we should never forget that the art form is bigger and more important that anyone one of us and our particular tastes and preferences. Our preferences and tastes in music will always color our judgment of the merit of any genre; and consequently, whether we like that genre or not is not what determines its ultimate merit. Nothing wrong with not liking any particular genre or style of music nor of having strong preferences, but to make grand statements about its merit as applicable on a universal scale is foolish and arrogant, imo. We all judge and like/dislike music according to what resonates with each of us. This is determined in great part by our age and what is familiar to us, among other things. Sure, we all like to think that we push the boundaries of the familiar and are open minded to the new, but I think that the reality is that we are all governed to some degree by what is comfortable (familiar) to us and tend to resist and resent what we perceive as challenging or perceive as destroying the familiar.
The second principle is something pryso alluded to, the idea that good art is a reflection of the time of its creation. I would add that what determines the merit of any art is how well it reflects that time. We may not like what any art says about the time of its creation, but our reaction is ultimately more of a statement about each of us than about the ultimate merit of the art. Moreover, this notion is not limited to the 60’s, it is applicable to any era. Every genre or style of music, from Early music to swing, to bebop, to fusion, etc. is a reflection of the times; just as R&R was and is. There are good and artistically valid examples of each of those genres just as there are bad examples. For me, many on mary_jo’s Rock list are on a higher artistic level than some of the second and third rate “jazz” that has been produced and recorded over the years and that gets automatic cred simply because it is “jazz”. I like good rock and roll and I see no point in comparing its merits to jazz or Classical or whatever. I may not love it the way I do great Jazz or Classical, but it is certainly valid and relevant and sometimes exactly what I want to listen to. ( Besides, it’s not quite the same working out to “Kind Of Blue” 😓). Do I wish that we still lived in the era when Jazz was the “popular” music genre? Sometimes I do; but then I wake up to reality. Rock and Roll did not destroy jazz; it is a product and reflection of the times. If you don’t like it, don’t kill the messenger!
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