Now and as I said it in that thread: WIMA caps is the industry standard and for very good reasons.
You can see the MKP 10 in almost any single audio electronics with units in the 400 hundred dollars and in the over 50K units. It's the manufacturesr/designer best choice.
Now, are so inexpensive that you lost nothing testing in your electronics and in your speaker crossover too. It's worth to do it and as I said are really cheap caps so you can't lost nothing and can have a very nice surprice and don't be " intimidated " for the humble Wima price against the boutique ones that in my today experiences can't performs better than the MKP 10.
Does a capacitor quality in the 2nd order speakers LPF make a big difference? If yes, Which producer and type can you recommend (I need 8uF)?
Do you like Jupiter VT?
Dear @grannyring : I think that step by step I will go for caps that I already know are really good as the Teflon Cu and/or Sonicap Platinum, first with the speaker tweeter crossover after that with the midrange one.
Now, I need advice on what cap is the best for the woofer 100 uf cap and the value of the cap to by-pass it.
Dear @grannyring : Yes " heavy " moded, here about:
ADS L 2030: This is a Full Range Professional Monitor that I own for many years.
These L 2030 was designed by Mike Kelly ( Aerial speakers ) and till today it match all my priorities.
It is " heavy " tweaked to do that: first it has " three hands " ( internally ) of a insulation/antivibrational treatment ( like a white paint. I can't remember the ingredients. ) from Acoustical Magic Company ( it works marvelous ) inside all the box ( a big one box: 58-5/8" ( H ) x 27-1/4" (W) x 13-1/8" (D) ).
It is internally hard wired with Silver Oval by Analysis Plus cable and KCAG by Kimber Kable.
I take out the crossover ( now is external ) and change all the parts: resistors ( Duelum. ), silver air core solid ribbon ( 5.5 cms. of pure silver. Almost 2kg. of silver in the biguest one. ) inductors , by-pass teflon caps, etc, etc, the speakers cables goes soldered directly to the crossover parts. This speaker crossover is hard-wired.
In reality are three separate/stand alone crossovers: one for the tweeter, one for the midrange and the other for the woofer, all these hard-wired directly to the amps ( no connectors. )
I'm only not biamp my system ( with the subs. ) but these ADS main/satellite speakers are true tri-wired in hard-wire directly to each crossover parts in the three way speaker design all the way down to the amplifier output.
I change the internal damping glass fiber by 10kg ( each one ) of long hair 100% virgin wool and change the fabric cloth of the grille for a " transparent one ".
These L 2030 have: One acoustic suspension 1" silk dome tweeter, one main acoustic suspension 2" silk dome midrange, three auxiliar acoustic suspension 2" silk dome midranges ( similar to the main midrange but with a less powerful magnet. ) and two long-excursion acoustic suspension ( sealed. ) paper 14" woofers.
These are exceptional drivers especially the tweeter/main midrange ones.
These ones was a spare tweeters from a Dalquihst DQM-9 that I owned and already sold.
These tweeters are 1" silk dome ( same efficiency that the front ones ) and are connected in phase with the front ones and works with his own crossover ( with by-pass Teflon cap. ) at around 7k and up and have, too, an off/on switch.
As I told you the high pass filter is made it inside each 20.6 ML monobloks.
Probably I can use the Sonicaps Platinum or perhaps Jupiter or something else but because I'm restricted on money I need your advise about.
I really don’t know that speaker at all. Looked st some online stuff on them, but not much available. Did you already mod them? Placed the crossover outboard?
Dear @grannyring : Do you need additional information for I can get your expert advise?
Because I'm not a whealty person I can't go with Duelund or teflon V-caps but to something else you already know works really fine in that speaker crossover aplication.
Dear @grannyring : My overall audio system/room target is to stay nearer/truer to the recording and my reference is live music but I’m far away from live music.
My speakers are a pair of old heavy tweaked ADS L2030 ( Silk dome tweeter/midrange and paper woofer. ) paired with two self powered Velodyne HGS-15 subwoofers wired in true stereo fashion. Crossover at around 80hz . The ADS crossover filter is made it directly at the 20.6 amps input due that these amps are coupled by input cap and here is where I’m using Teflon Cu V-caps along Vishay naked resistors.
I’m satisfied with what I have but you know I think that I can have even better quality level performance if I invest in better caps in the speakers crossover where everything is hard wired and seats externally to the speakers. I use pure silver ribbon inductors .
I’m not looking for a very specific atribute but " only " that puts me nearer to the recording.
Even that my system is full SS electronics does not sounds as traditional SS electronics none as tubes but more as music, recorded music with neutral tone and rhiytm along that " power/dynamics " that only live music can has. Truly emotional.
Love to help, but need more info. Please tell us the speaker in question and what you want to gain from the upgrade? What sound quality attributes are you wanting more of or less of? Thanks!
Dear friends: I'm looking for advise on caps for speaker's crossover.
I use or used V-caps ( not the Teflon ones. ) and Sonic Craft by-passed with Teflon V-caps.
In my all SS electronics I'm using Teflon V-caps and Teflon Cu V-caps and Sonic Craft Platinum too. All these works great.
Due that Teflon V-caps are expensive and that I need 16.8uf and 4.7uf plus 100uf I would like to know which one could be the best combination for a lower price and with quality performance nearer to the Teflon V-caps.
I tried both and prefer the silver foil bypass caps. Combined with the Jupiter copper foil they are magic. Never thin or bright, but full bodied with amazing clarity and tone. This combo is my favorite on tweeters in crossovers also.
I instaled Duelund Cu-Sn bypass capacitors into my phonostege, bypassing Jupiter 1uF output capacitors. Before that I did 3 days burn-in of Duelund Cu-Sn bypass capacitors in FryBaby2, Yes I got what I expected. Vivid guitar and piano strings and much more real cymbals. But I lost violins main tone. It was sound like an upper-midange dominated over a lower-midrange. I run FryBaby2 during 8 hours connected to phonostage input directly, bypassing SUT. FryBaby2 was working in lowest voltage MC mode. Phonostage was on, and amplifier was off. It gave a very significant improvement. It make sound better, more musical all-around and the lower-midrange become more rich in tone too. But still violin sounded a little too thin. Than I tried to change interconnect between phonostage and integrated amplifier from Acrotec 8n 2080 to Duelund DCA20 (with Duelund Cu RCA connectors) and DCA16 (Switchcraft RCA). Both Duelund interconnects made violin sound natural. So, pure Cu-Sn Duelund solution works the best!
I have Bypass Tinned Copper. They sound very tonal reach, vivid and musical. I never tried Bypass Silver. But most of people like them a lot.
According Jeff: http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=12323 "
Now comparing the 0.01uF caps in context: The Sn-Cu sounds more vivid and colorful, with more emphasis on the first attack of a note in the upper mid-range (which aids things like melody & beat), the timbral textures sound a little more “real” to me, and more nuanced. They also “open up” the music in an intriguing way, and seem to amplify the “acoustic roughness” of music a little, which provides more emotional engagement. The Ag bypass caps sound smoother and less dramatic, are more elegant and softly nuanced, with a more laid back and distant presentation, a little bit like you’re listening from mid-hall instead of the front-hall like with the Sn-Cu."
Yes, Audin is good, but he’s a bit boring for me. OK I’ll try to start a Duelund bypass capacitor. Bypass Silver (Ag) or bypass Tinned Copper (Cu) which one is better?
Hi
alexberger Thank you for your opinion. I want to choose a capacitor for crossover that will give the best results for playing vocals. According to some people, Jupiter
Cu is very realistically reproduces vocals.
I don't have experience with Jupiter in crossovers. But I have experience with Jupiter Cu in electronics and with Duelund Cu-Sn Bypass in crossovers. It is just my IMHO. If you like sound of your system with Audyn True Copper Max, you can just add Duelund Cu-Sn Bypass. It will make sound more vivid and testy with more 3D soundstage. If you don't like your current sound OR you want more smooth sound with more polite upper midrange and more detailed lower midrange go for
Jupiter Cu upgrade.
I will try to replace in passive crossover
my Audyn True Copper Max with Jupiter Cu. And I’ll look at the result. In this test, Jupiter Cu scored 1 more than Audyn Copper Max. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
I use Jupiter capacitor in phonostage built by EAR 834p schematics (with some upgrades). The first pair
(left and right channel) of Jupiter
capacitors
I use between 1st and 2nd stages. The second pair I use between 3rd stage and output.
grannyring Do you use Jupiter copper in a passive crossover acoustics or in an amplifier? Sorry for my bad English, I could not understand this by reading your discus discussion.
After adding the second pair of Jupiter Cu into my phonostage output, sound became more smooth and transparent by too polite and a little boring. So, I decided I have to add more bite, more hot pepper to the sound of my phonostage. I just ordered Duelund CAST Cu-Sn bypass capacitors...
Actually you can to try Duelund 16 AVG Cu-Sn wire for hook-up inside your speakers and as a speakers cable. In my system it works very good as speakers cable.
Hi Grannyring, Thank you for advice. You are single person on Audiogon who answered my questions. Sorry. My English is not perfect. But I'm a new comer in Canada and English is my 4th language. Audio is my hobby during last 20 years. Jupiter capacitors in my phonostage are continuing to break in. The sound is still changing. It was a little bit thin. After that, it was too lush. Now it becoming slowly more neutral. When it settle done, I will decide if I need to add bypass capacitors or Jupiters without bypass are good enough. In any case I afraid to bypass 0.1uF capacitor (because it is before RIAA correction) and results can be unpredictable. If I need, I will bypass 1uF output capacitor.
You can use the Duelund .01 uf bypass caps on smaller value high voltage caps in electronics coupling and output positions as well as speaker tweeter and midrange caps as large as 15uf etc.... I have used them in both with good results.
I have not tried the small Juputer caps in bypass positions.
Hi Grannyring,
Did you try to use Duelund bypass capacitors for bypassing powers supply capacitors in electronic (amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, phono-stages)? Regards, Alex.
Jupiter goes south in sound quality right around 50 hours. Music sounds thin and just not right. They sound much better from 0-50 hours. Strange, but true. At around 100 hours thry just start getting more open, natural, relaxed and bloom. This all gets slowly better past 300 hours and at 400-500 they are set.
The Duelund bypass gives them more of the Duelund CAST realism and organic mids and highs. The combo is very special. More of a inner glow.
Yes, I'm agreed. Cooker works different compared to
break in with music. Very long
break in with music always makes sound better and long
break in with cooker sometimes makes sound too dull or bright. But in this case with Jupiter capacitors, cooker helped me to pass quickly the most annoying first stage of the break in. I ordered a pair of 1uF Jupiter Cu capacitors for my phono-stage (build based on EAR834 schematics) output stage. The thing that impressed me most in Jupiter Cu is exceptional micro-dynamic that makes classical music sound very emotional.
They do need more time to break in with music. 500 hours with music. Pretty sure your cooker time fell short of that. These do take all of 500 hours to sound their best. Not sure what the cooker equivalent of 500 hours is? Not sure if it even gives the same result?
I burned
Jupiter Copper
3 days in Frybaby2. I soldered capacitors into my phono-stage and listened. After that I connected Frybaby2 to phono-stage and run it about one hours. This extra hour didn’t do any difference. The tonal balance after installing new capacitors was even. It looks like capacitors path about 90% of break-in. Compared to Audio Note Copper capacitors that where before in phono-stage, Jupiter capacitors have more high frequency extension and bigger base. They have much more resolution in all frequencies spectrum included lower midrange. All violins, saxophones, trumpets have more body and midrange tones. Soundstage became more 3d and further. Arensky trio with Heifetz- Piatigorsky sound more energetic and emotional. Most of jazz music sound more real. But on rock music Jupiter capacitors show more records flaws too. I can compare Jupiter Coper to Duelund Custom Cu capacitors directly. But I changed Audio Note to Duelund Custom Cu in my integrated amplifier, so I can compare Jupiter Copper to Duelund Custom Cu capacitors indirectly. This comparison is based on my memory and not too accurate. Duelund Custom Cu capacitors have bigger, deeper and slower base. Jupiter Copper capacitors sound faster and very energetic. Duelund Custom Cu capacitors have lusher, richer low midrange on vocals. Duelund Custom Cu maybe a little better in term of tone.
I did burn in
speed up
for 4uF Duelund RS using Frybaby2 cable burner. It helps. But in any case, it needs some number of hours of natural burn-in after a harsh Frybaby2 burn-in.
Yes these well damped, large and dense caps all take a good 300-500 hours to fully burn in. They will sound good after 100 or so and just continue to open up a get better. The larger the cap value the longer....closer to 500 hours. Many don’t wait long enough and change things far too early. They will sound good right away and up to 50 hours. At 50 hours or so things go worse unexpectedly. Yes, frustrating but true. However at 100 hours or so they start sounding good again and just keep getting better with time. This has been my experience and trust me when I say I have been through this cycle many, many times and know from experience.
I wish this were were not true as some think. However, it is the case and real on these caps.
Jupiter is far from thin sounding as an FYI. It is lush, sweet, and has full bodied tone. Still my favorite! Better bass than Duelund in electronics also. That has been my experience.
Now I’m using Audio Note Copper capacitor in EAR834 phonostage between first and second tube. This capacitor works in the circuit without feedback. So the quality of this capacitor should make a big difference. The problem is AN Copper are very lush and sweet in a mid-range like Duelund Custom-CU, or even more! And I like the tonal balance of my phonostage. I just want to make it more transparent. I afraid that Jupiter Comer can make vocal sound a little bit thin.
I have compared Jupiter copper foil to the RS and CAST. I just prefer the Jupiter by a wide margin over the RS. The RS sounds dark compared to the Jupiter. The Jupiter is more open, airy and better micro details. It does this always with a natural richness and smooth presentation. The CAST as very good and I find the Jupiter a little better in the micro details and airy top end while the CAST is a tad more organic and midrange resolving.
The Jupiter’s are far more affordable than the CAST however. My all time favorite is combining a Jupiter copper foil with a Duelund Silver foil bypass cap. Pure heaven and better than the CAST for less money still. All my opinion😁.
The JAM are not at the same level as the Jupiter copper foil just by where they are in the Duelund Line and how Jupiter compares to the CAST higher up in the line.
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