I'm using pristine condition (9/10) 2Cs built in 1979. They sound wonderful using Krell and Oppo. I will definitely be purchasing current-model 2s or 3s when mine give up. Reading threads like these help tremendously. |
It has been 6 years now since the last post and I still have my 2CE Sig II |
The upgrade on the 2CE Sig II only happens with in the last Month, unfortunately I didn't make it, but you're right the audible change would be way less less huge. |
OP, does your 2CE Sig IIs incorporate these updates to the model? If so, I suspect the change would be even less huge, those sound like significant migrations up the VS food chain, making them an even greater bargain for the price - assuming it has stayed the same. |
A friend just spoke to Jason from Vandersteen and this is what he said "Yes, the 2Ce sig 2 has a new mid range driver. The woven composite cone of the Quarto Wood.
The tweeter is from the model 5. So, it's just the mid-range driver that's changed. Jason also mentioned that the speaker is also
more efficient, they can play louder. Vandersteen wanted to consolated the number of drivers in their growing inventory. Also,
Jason mentioned that they were not sure the new midrange driver would work but were able to use the same crossover with minor mods." |
From the groves in Hanford! |
Or, all from California.:-) |
That is a good comparison, and both from Florida:) |
Call Richard! I have! He will kindly explain that these two speakers took on a very different design approach in driver selection, set up, box volume, crossover configuration, etc. They also have different amplifier requirements. They may not be apples/oranges, but they are cetainly tangerines/oranges. |
Agree. A fun shop to visit. Even better if you can go when Richard is paying a visit on his occasional dealer tours. |
There is no better place to get advice about anything Vandersteen, or as a matter of fact...anything audiophile. John's the nicest most knowledgeable person I have ever dealt with. He sells nearly everything, and is the very best place to go. |
Anonymous or not, your comment was directed at him and put him in a non-
flattering light. Perhaps his comment was too flippant as stated, but it seems
having experienced both speakers, he does not feel there is much sonic
difference between them - true, a subjective conclusion - at least not as great
as the price difference would suggest.
I do have a bit of a problem with the question as originally framed - OP asks
if the differences are HUGE - well in my opinion the 3A is better, but not
HUGELY so, and even less so when OP already has a subwoofer which goes a
long way to bring the 2s closer to the level of the 3. Are their differences to
be had? Sure. Is the overall quality better? Probably. But both speakers are
clearly the work of the same designer, and if the differences were huge that
would not be so apparent. Doesn't mean it is not worth upgrading to the 3A,
that was my preference too, and still a good value, but not the killer value
offered by the 2s. If OP is anywhere near New Jersey, he should go visit John
at Audio Connection - a good place to hear the differences and get good
advice. |
Unsound....Why are you getting so upset.... No one knows who you are, where you live, what kind of car you drive, if you're married or single, etc. You live in anonimity. The way I saw it is that you were giving very wrong advice - an indication that you don't know what you are talking about - to a guy who has a serious question. Your answer was flippant, and just plain wrong. These pages are a learning experience for all of us, and now we just learned additional unflattering values of Unsound. |
Miketuason,
Give John a call and discuss your preferences on both setups. I can tell you first hand than John knows Vandersteens very well and will not mislead you in any way. |
John, the tweeter and midrange drivers are different? If so, I stand corrected. |
((I think the 2s and 3s may have the very same tweeters and midrange and I would expect very little difference in the range covered by these drivers.))
I strongly disagree
The 2CE Sigs are one hell of a speaker and simply outperform any box type speaker design at the same or double the price and most folks with solid value equipment should stay put and enjoy the music... but
If you have the front end equipment the 3A Sigs are a significant improvement.
There internal volume,postured height advantage more expensive drivers longer throw 10" inch woofer,better 8"inch mid bass,improved crossover allows for an even better transition.
The 3A Sig will image higher have a deeper more uniform in room response can Cruz through the music in a evan more graceful way.
Of course if you did a side by side with both 2ce Sigs and 3 A Sigs next to each other or any other speaker for that matter both will suffer by not having the best in room position and an extra carcass of a speaker next to the speaker not allowing either to perform optimally.
Cheers Johnnyr |
I do agree that the 3s are clearer with greater dynamics, but I also think that with the use of the Velodyne, the differences are much less than a straight up comparison. If money we not an issue, I would certainly choose the 3s over the 2s, but with subwoofer used with the 2s versus a straight 3 the choice would not be so clear. I have owned 2s and 3s and 2WQs so I have some knowledge of the Vandersteen line, but it is always a good idea to talk to Richard, and better yet, get yourself to a store and decide with you own ears, you should be a able to get a demo - in either case, both speakers will be better in the midrange with a subwoofer taking some of deep bass duties off the mains. If I am not mistaken, the current 2s and 3s use the very same tweeter and mid-range driver - no? |
Stringreen, don't tell me where to go, or presume to know what I use a foundation of truth. Sure, many of the differences you suggest are true, but, I still think they have more in common, and the biggest difference between them is price. I've heard all the Vandersteen's many different times, in many different places, and in many different systems. All of which has led me to conclude that the Vandersteen 2's are an incredible value, and the 3's start to encroach on diminishing returns in comparison. You might value them differently, but I don't go out of my way to publicly insult you. |
You guys (or girls) really are not that knowledgeable about Vandersteens, and yet you give advice to someone who's serious about his question. Unsound...the name is perfect. The Signatures are individually tested in a chamber and have to pass the design guidlines. Not only is the Sig bigger, but cleaner, clearer, greater dynamics...all that you would expect of a Signature designation. Get on Vandersteen's website and at least read if you can't listen to one....but stay off this site if you just like to see yourself in print with no foundation of truth. Mike....call Richard...he's a really nice guy and let him explain what the differences are himself. |
I think the biggest difference is price. |
With the Velodyne, I would expect the difference to be smaller than if you were simply moving from 2 to 3 without a subwoofer. Depending on the model you have, I think the 2s and 3s may have the very same tweeters and midrange and I would expect very little difference in the range covered by these drivers. Now if no subwoofers were involved I would say you would get a noticeable improvement in bass and dynamics - but never would the differences be huge - a huge difference would mean leaving the Vandersteen stable, which it does no sound like you are interested in doing that. If you have the cash, why not? If you would be pushing it financially I would stay put. |
Still hard to say the 2ce I was running quicksilver v4 on with kimber cable and a asethix pre amp and every change I made to the system herd the speakers where very transparent. As I said the 2wq made a big difference. The 3 will be a bit cleaner I think it is the sweet spot in the line.
Anyhow he is alwas improving little things. That does not mean an old set is bad. If it was a huge improvement it would dictate a model name change. |
Well, as I have learned recently, I've asked Richard Vandersteen if they made any changes on the 2CE Sig II since they started the production, and he said "absolutely" but didn't change the model name and this goes the same for for the 3A Sig. So, what he was saying is that the older 2CE Sig II is not the same as the 2CE Sig II NOW. I just thought I share this info with you. |
The 2CE signature is one of the best speakers when it comes to performance per dollar. It might get you around 80 to 85% of audio nirvana. The 3A sigs are superb but might get you an extra 5 to 10% of the elusive audio nirvana.
If it worth the extra money for the smaller increase in performance then go for it!
I would call Vandersteen regarding the used 3A question. |
If you have a choice, which would you get, a 6 years old 3A Sig. or a 2 years old 2CE Sig II? |
As far as any audio expenditure goes, yes. You'll get a much fuller sound, more impact. |
Thanks gents, as for preamp processor, temporarily I just bought the Integra DHC 40.2 and it works really well with the McIntosh/Vandersteen, and as for cd/DVD/and SACD player I have the Oppo bdp 95. I use my speaker for both Stereo/multichannel and home theater purposes. Also, I like to ask if the 3A Sig. is worth $2500 more than my 2CE Sig II?
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Everything improves a little and there is a big improvement in the low end. I feel the best bang for buck with vandersteen is the 3a sig with the 2wq it just taks room. I had the 2ce sigs for years and enjoyed them quite alot they are a great speaker but they needed the 2wq.
It is hard for me to tell you what difference in your system you will hear since you areonly stating your amps and I have not herd thoes ampes on vandersteen anyhow.
The Velodyne sub scares me a little I love velodyne subs but they woud be a bit slow I think paired with vandersteen for music and how are you crossing it over anyhow. Are you using a receiver? |
For one, you shouldn't need your sub. Same basic sound, in roughly the same footprint, just taller. But larger scale.
Can be fantastic in the right room with right gear. A bargain. |
