The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true.
James Branch Cabell |
When you put yourself out in the public, either by designs, or your acting, or sports activities, you are subject to speculation, derision, adulation, criticism, suggestions, and others human actions. Folks are passionate about their audio, for sure, and very, very, very concerned with minutia, it's the way it is. For some folks, that's the big part of the hobby! |
Some people have nothing constructive to do with their time but to bad mouth a company that deserves their success....in providing the high end audio community with value and support of the highest calibre. |
Kiddman: I don't know enough about manufacturing tolerances to determine if VPIs are good or not in this regard. They look like it to me, but I am not an engineer. I also can't tell you if Harry and Mat Weisfeld were lying to me when they said that they sourced their parts from mostly local machine shops. But what I saw and heard, I saw and heard first hand, and I stand by those observations. They did not claim that the parts were machined from US-mined metals and US-made plastics from US-produced oil from US-drilled oil wells. There is no end to the niggling one can do in this regard. But I would think that the "made in USA" label on a VPI 'table is more accurate than the same label on a Ford Focus, when you look at the parts sources. |
Zenblaster, much more evenly presented, a balanced post. |
Stevecham- I agree.
If you are going to accuse a company of something, at least bring something that resembles evidence. Otherwise your motivation is going to be questionable.
Do VPI turntables have problems, Yup. Do they screw up things, yup. But to question the "Made in America" slogan that they hang their hat on leads me to beleive that there may be an underlying motivation for the accusation.
Listen, I am not a lap dog for VPI but any company that does at least a good job of trying to put out good products for a reasonable price deserves "benefit of doubt" status until you bring some kind of supporting documentation. |
Now, if this is a fact: "I've been to the factory and seen VPI tables, including Travellers, in various stages of assembly. These are hand built from machined parts that are also made almost entirely in New Jersey by local machine shops"
then it would make me believe they were done in USA. |
Please, get off your high horse(s). I did not accuse VPI, re-read my post. I'm saying none of us can be sure, and that goes for any manufacturer, because many secretly have things done in the far east, and that is FACT. Admitted to me by several. Been in the industry 3 decades, I know a bit about how it runs, who is doing what. |
VPI is foundational as to what is still outstanding about US ingenuity, design and manufacturing, and to suggest otherwise, is, at the least in my opinion, in poor taste and judgement. |
Kidman- I can tell you with certainty there are manufacturers at higher quality and prestige levels than VPI that indeed use off-shore suppliers for the bulk of their parts yet claim everything is made in USA. I know some well. I hate to say this but in the end, does it matter? There are plenty of poor tolerance things, including turntables, made exclusively in the USA.
Like Bucenero, it is irresponsible to make these acusations without even a hint of proof or support. I think that VPI has earned the reputation of building quality products and nothing in my experiences has led me to believe that they would resort to false or deceptive advertising. Their products speak for themselves |
Why bad rap a great American tunable!! |
Just as every athlete guilty of using steroids will deny, deny, deny, so that there is no way of telling them from the clean athletes, so will a manufacturer deny, deny, deny using parts from China, whether they are or not. So nobody on this forum, including me, having been involved with manufacturing in industry for 30 years, has any idea whether what VPI says is true or not.
If the quality and finish levels were absolute top notch, insanely good like Boulder, then we could say they were probably done in USA as opposed to China. Obviously, that's not the case.
I can tell you with certainty there are manufacturers at higher quality and prestige levels than VPI that indeed use off-shore suppliers for the bulk of their parts yet claim everything is made in USA. I know some well. I hate to say this but in the end, does it matter? There are plenty of poor tolerance things, including turntables, made exclusively in the USA.
In the end, maybe the importance is more of a philosophical thing, and a concern for country thing, not wanting to keep exporting jobs. |
@Buconero117,
Why would you spout off about the VPI having 95% of it's parts made in China without backing those statistics up? Do you have proof of this? If not then keep quiet as you do a disservice to VPI and the audiophile community. |
Let me guess. I'll bet the retailer who told the OP that the Traveler is made in China is not a VPI dealer.
Worst way to sell a product. Slamming and lying to boot about the competition. Instead this guy ought to be talking about where the products he carries are made and their virtues.
It make me want to buy a Traveler. |
I've been to the factory and seen VPI tables, including Travellers, in various stages of assembly. These are hand built from machined parts that are also made almost entirely in New Jersey by local machine shops. This I heard from Harry's mouth directly. Your dealer is just too lazy to check this out for himself. Wolf - You may be right, but we're not all commies here in the Garden State! |
It would be very hard for anyone to know unless they saw boxes full of all parts coming from a local machine shop. While I don't think VPI is top of the heap in precision and while I cannot understand how this product is so cheap, this is not any sort of "hard evidence" they are made in China.
Lots of manufacturers lie about product being made in USA, implying parts are made here too. You would be surprised. Yet, that means nothing about VPI. He may be real clever about getting cheap prices from US machine shops based on quantity and long term relationships. |
The only part that is sourced offshore is the tonearm lift mechanism. The rest of the VPI table parts are sourced and produced in the USA. |
Made? Depends on what the meaning of 'made' is. Well 95% of the Traveler parts come from China, but it is assembled in Cliffwood. So, does that qualify to say 'made' in the USA?
I understood that VPI machined their tonearms and fittings in NJ. What parts come from China |
After all, many feel that New Jersey is the China of the USA. So it's win win. |
What would a retailer necessarily know about manufacturing? Volume alone can do wonders for managing the cost of goods. Perhaps the retailer doesn't realize how successful Harry and Seth have been with this design. |
Made? Depends on what the meaning of 'made' is. Well 95% of the Traveler parts come from China, but it is assembled in Cliffwood. So, does that qualify to say 'made' in the USA? |
It's made in Cliffwood, New Jersey. Pretty USA to me. |
VPI advertises the Traveler in both the press and on their website as The only entry level high end turntable that is made in America!!
Good enough for me. |
