1. Connect directly to the PreMATE DAC as these are high quality & transparent.
2. If you get an M23 from another source, you will need to have the files converted - probably by Alan Langford at DEQX & my experience is that he may take quite a while to do this & there may be a cost. I would personally not recommend it. I asked the question before getting my own M23 but in the end bought it via the DEQX dealer with the correct DEQX file.
3. I always connect directly to a DEQX processor when using subs to achieve the most accurate time alignment. This feature is excellent, minimises other equipment in the chain & volume is locked in with the main speakers. The DEQX software allows you to adjust time delay (main speakers to subs), phase, relative volumes & equalisation anyway. If you want to offset any lacking bass from the source, you can set the four remote control presets to progressively higher levels of sub volume. This works really well & is what I do. |
Hi Steve,
As usual Andrew (Drewan77) provides great answers, with which I agree completely.
I too purchased the M23 as part of the $745 DEQX "Reference Calibration Kit." Mainly out of curiosity I subsequently requested a calibration file corresponding to the serial number of the particular mic from Earthworks, via their website, and it was in a plain text format rather than the proprietary DEQX format supplied with the kit that is necessary for importation into the DEQX cal software.
Regarding your questions about how to best configure the system, I would just add to Andrew’s comments that using a particularly long digital cable could conceivably increase susceptibility to ground loop issues between the CDP and the DEQX, which in turn might adversely affect timing jitter at the circuit point within the DEQX where D/A conversion is performed. So when the time comes it may be worthwhile to compare sonics with and without a cheater plug temporarily applied to the CDP’s power plug, to defeat its safety ground connection. That would break any ground loop that may exist between the CDP and the DEQX, and allow you to determine if this possibility is an issue.
BTW, for the benefit of others who may read your post and may wonder, I’ll mention that I assume the word "apron" was intended to be "approx."
Best of luck as you proceed. Regards,
-- Al
|
Hi- Just got the premate and want to run my external dac- I hooked up my server to the premate dig.in and then out from the premate to dig. in on my dac- according to the DEQX manual -I ran out from the dac to the amps- No sound- what am i doing wrong- thks for the help
|
fluffers - Your post suggests that your DAC had been able to feed your amplifiers directly prior to adding the PreMate. Is that so?
The PreMate is normally sequenced as a preamp in the chain immediately prior to power amps - or by ’amps’ do you mean integrated amps? & does your external DAC have the facility to feed power amps directly?
I’m guessing by ’according to the DEQX manual’ you refer to the Full digital output as on p20. If not, then refer to the image on p12 of the manual & either arrangement below will work :
- Server digital output->external DAC-> PreMate via analogue RCA inputs or balanced XLR if available->power amps (I use a similar setup but with two DEQX units master-slave). The DEQX unit will still digitally process speaker correction, sub integration etc.
- Server digital output->PreMate digital input (using inbuilt DEQX DAC but your external DAC is unnecessary)-> power amps.
The way you describe things I would have expected a further preamp or integrated amps after the DAC, using an analogue output from the DAC - this arrangement will of course work but I would personally minimise extra equipment in the chain.
|
thks- It seemed odd to me to run from output of dac to amps but here it is from page 24 of manual unless I am reading it wrong-
"The diagram above illustrates the use of the digital output of the PreMATE or PreMATE+. Connect the digital output, labeled Full L2/R2, to an external DAC via a BNC cable (or an RCA cable with a BNC-RCA adapter). The outputs of the DAC are connected to the power amplifier, which in turn drives the left and right speakers. Note that the external DAC must be capable of decoding a 24-bit 96 kHz signal "
|
thks- No never used the external dac outputs before- Just want to run server to external dac to DEQX( serving as pre) to mono block amps- thks |
I have emailed Alan Langford & Kim Ryrie at DEQX that the image on p24 is misleading & it would be better to say ’Integrated amplifiers’.
The illustration suggests a DAC that will have a variable volume output (?) to a power amp maybe taking a direct digital feed. As the DAC digital output is presumably a fixed volume then this arrangement wouldn’t work. If the connection between DAC & power amps is analogue then I don’t see the DEQX volume control/remote having any effect either.
|
From page 20 of the manual, referring to the single digital output of the PreMate and PreMate+: This is the same signal as provided on the Main Speakers analog output. It carries the corrected audio signal for the speakers, optionally with limit filters for subwoofer integration. It can be used to connect an external DAC instead of using the internal DAC of the DEQX. I would infer from this statement that the digital output is volume controlled, as well as being subjected to all of the corrections and other signal processing that are applied to the main analog outputs, other than D/A conversion. I’ve never used the digital outputs of my HDP-5. But what I’m wondering is **if** the PreMate was purchased used, and **if** the previous owner was just using it for subwoofer duties, he may have disabled the main analog outputs in the configuration he set up. Which presumably would have also disabled the digital output, given the paragraph I quoted from the manual. In that case a computer would have to be connected to the DEQX and the calibration software would have to be used to revise the configuration. Best regards, -- Al |
Good point Al, I think you must be correct (I was imagining a variable output digital signal might overload the inputs on an external DAC).
I use the digital pass-through from my HDP-5 to HDP-3 & of course it does control volume although all corrections & processing for the -3 in this case require a separate USB connection & a different .mzd file. Only one processor connected to the computer at a time of course!
|
guys thanks- Hooked it up the way I thought it should be and works fine- Thks again |
Hi guys
I am missing something here that fluffier just mentioned about connecting his external dac
OK I have a deqx premate
I have just bought a chord dac
As per the manual I have connected the bnc cable on the deqx to the bnc input on the Dave. I left my subs connected to the deqx and connected my xlr cords to the Dave to my amps. No sound.
The Dave doesn't say it's receiving any signal input. Is there a setting in my deqx I need to enable to allow the digital output to play? I have connected my server via usb to the Dave input. It used go work find when I had the Deqx connected to my amps. Now with tje Dave connected via bnc to the digital output and with the amps connected to the Dave dac I get no sound now. I only get minor bass frequency sound as I have kept my subs connected to the deqx. I am ck fjsed as to what I am doing wrong and if there is a setting in the deqx to allow the digital output to play?
|
@steveo888 - your post implies that you have two sets of digital inputs connected to the Dave:
1. BNC from PreMate to Dave
2. USB from server to Dave
Please check if the Dave input is defaulting to USB rather than BNC. This could be the reason why there is no sound.
If that is not the case then check the PreMate settings as below:
- On your DEQX - set the speaker configuration mode to “Single amp with optional mono subwoofer"
- On the IO manager make sure that ’Output Selection’ is set at the default: “Analog/Digital.” which enables analogue to the subs & digital to the DAC.
Also, as a separate issue - if your sever is bypassing the DEQX unit & linked directly to the DAC, then no DEQX correction will be applied & the Subs will not be connected to music from the server either. The server should be connected to the PreMate via the USB-B socket on the rear. |
Hi Drew an thanks for your response.
To confirm I have the server connected to the deqx via usb input. Then I have the Dave connected to the only bnc digital output from the deqx premate.
I can confirm the analog digital icon is checked. I can't find the section where it allows me to set "single amp with mono subwoofer" in my case I will need "single amp with stereo subwoofer" as I have two subs (they re built into my speakers)
Can you tell me where that option is so I can check? I have checked the Dave input and it is on the correct bnc input. Whatever I choose with Dave it says "no data" or something like that which tell me the deqx is holding something back.
I just hope that the Dave as a dac is compatible with the deqx as I wanted to get the mscaler as well. The deqx has been one of thole biggest uplift ls in my system and I don't think I can live without the room correction side even with Dave. |
Please excuse previous spelling errors.
I am looking at the manual where it discusses using two subs in the analog domain on page 23 and connecting an external dac on page 24. Since I was using two subwoofers already and running the amps from my deqx via analog xlr connections, I am fairly sure(without checking as I am out) that Alan would have set it up already as "single amp with stereo subwoofers" as thats what the manual says to do, so I am baffled as to why it’s not working.
Could it be an input issue on the Dave? It’s brand new and could be fault. It is saying that it isn’t receiving any input on any bnc signal even when I am playing music.
I confirm that when I select the usb on the deqx (as I have connected my server to the usb input) I can hear the corrected low bass sub frequencies in the song in the analog domain (since I am still running my subwoofers from the deqx sub analog out into my speakers.) I just can’t hear the digital out mid and high frequencies, since the Dave is connected via the deqx digital output (full l2/r2) into the Dave’s bnc input 1. (I did try bnc 3 as well) I can confirm I have tried changed the inputs on the Dave and it still wasn’t working.
Further to this I did try changing in the I/O the Analog/digital to digital only. As expected I lost the low frequencies as the subs are connected via analog, but still no sound to the dac. I’m baffled.
|
Strange, it’s possible that there is a fault with the Full Digital Output on the PreMate (I use it on my HDP-5, linking to a slave HDP-3 & have never had any issue).
On the Dave using the setup function, have you selected PCM rather than DSD (PCM is correct)? Also make sure it is not switched to DAC mode which disables volume control.
You could check that this DAC is working by connecting your server directly to its USB input, then connect one of its digital outputs to one of the appropriate digital inputs on the PreMate. The PreMate will then feed to amps & subs via analogue outputs. With this setup & the PreMate configured as "single amp with stereo subwoofers", everything should play & it will confirm that the Dave is working (but not necessarily its digital input).
As a final thought, I hope there isn’t some sort of conflict between the digital clocks in both units. |
Thanks Drewan
I think I have found the problem. Basically I bought an express hd 2 originally and over time took it back to deqx to get them to upgrade to the premate board as I wanted xlr for my new bel canto amps I bought.
I rang deqx and he told me there was a chance they didn't add the digital outputs even though my back unit has digital output. So basically the signal was going nowjere so it looks like a physical hardware issue.
Pretty funny when you think about it. So I will be looking to upgrade to the premate at least.
On another note as a fellow deqx user I was wondering something. At the moment I am running goldenear triton 1s which have an active subwoofer built in. Alan set it up so my subwoofers are seperate from the mods and highs and I send my sub channel out via the sub out channels.
I am concerned that adding the Dave dac will give me delay from the mids and highs to the lows. I assume we can set the deqx up to not include any subwoofer channel so my speakers naturally send lfe to the subswithout with rca input. I am worried when I upgrade to the chord mscaler that I will get timing delays. Not sure if you know much aBout chord products
|
Actually, you should have no issues if you use the PreMate to drive everything (once the mods are done).
A delay on low frequencies via the Chord DAC will not be an issue - just measure the subs at the listening position separately to the other channels & then delay mid/high by comparing impulse responses & subtracting the slowest (subs) from the fastest (others).
I used to have a Chord DAC64 which was very nice but sold it on a few years ago. Other than that I've not used their products (don't use the inbuilt DAC's on either of my DEQX processors either) |
Good to hear. Do you think it will work if I add an mscaler before the Dave as well? This device specifically has a video option because the signal is delayed up to about 1.4 seconds due to the processing power when listening to music. I don't want to use the video option with the deqx for music listening, as it doesn't upscale as much.
People who are familiar with the Dave but unfamiliar with the deqx are telling me to get rid of the deqx and go straight to mscaler and Dave. However they don't understand how much the deqx helps with timing and room correction so that isn't an option for me. I like the deqx tech that much and there is nothing really put there that can compare to it at the same level. So I need to figure it out and hoping the deqx can be flexible enough to do this.
Another option I guess I could remove the subs for my p1 profile? Do you know, if for example, I can set the p1 profile for no subs, so the deqx takes the full range of the speakers for music, so the digital signal has the bass frequencies? Then on p3 I have a sub present for the low lfe frequencies for movie watching? This is what I do at the moment p1 for music and p3 for movies.
I am hoping the deqx can be set up this way as well without adding another configuration and having to switch between them in the application. |
After you add the mscaler/Dave, then measure the speakers & subs and use these impulse responses to set delay. DEQX will measure what it hears from the speakers, irrespective of what is in between it/them.
Because I don't have details of your specific speaker wiring your previous posts infer that there are two sets of cables to each speaker - one for mid/high and another for the 'subs' (ie woofers - your post says ...."in my case I will need "single amp with stereo subwoofer" as I have two subs - they're built into my speakers")
If you set P1 with the subs disabled, then bass frequencies may not be present as the cabling feeding the subs will not have a signal. It all depends on the frequency range of your speakers without the 'subs'. |
Yes you are correct. I have my speaker cables connected and they Are doing the highs and mids. I have an rca connected to my subs taking care of the low frequencies. Deqx set it up with the rca doing sub duties but I can have full range through just a speaker cable.
My speakers are designed to go full range without an rca connection. They included an rca for home theatre and movies and having more options for Setup.
I am hoping the deqx can run p1 with no subs full range and then when I switch to p3 for movies it will include the subs for the bass section and the speaker cables for mids and highs,without having two sets of deqx configurations.
What speakers and dacs are you running with your hdp5 and hdp3? Sounds like an active Setup to me.
|
Yes you are correct. I have my speaker cables connected and they Are doing the highs and mids. I have an rca connected to my subs taking care of the low frequencies. Deqx set it up with the rca doing sub duties but I can have full range through just a speaker cable.
My speakers are designed to go full range without an rca connection. They included an rca for home theatre and movies and having more options for Setup.
I am hoping the deqx can run p1 with no subs full range and then when I switch to p3 for movies it will include the subs for the bass section and the speaker cables for mids and highs,without having two sets of deqx configurations.
What speakers and dacs are you running with your hdp5 and hdp3? Sounds like an active Setup to me.
|
Yes, I have an active setup with 3-way Open Baffle speakers on the HDP-5 (4 x 15" bass, 2 x 8" mids, 2 x Ribbon tweeters) & two Subs (2 x12", 2 x 10") on the slave HDP-3. All running as a 5-way stereo setup, 12 drivers in total - crossovers, time & phase alignment handled by the DEQX processors.
Whatever you do with P1 & P3, you can have one configuration (assuming your calibration for the main speakers is full range) but disable the subs on P1. However, your comment about the speaker cables doing highs and mids & subs taking care of low frequencies suggests they may not be calibrated as full range so P1 would have no bass frequencies without the subs. Was your initial measurement of these speakers as full range with subs disabled?
If that’s the case then make sure that the speaker calibration you use for P1 is based on a full range speaker measurement, not just highs and mids. |
Yes you're right they weren't calibrated as full range. It was only done for the mids and highs, and If I disconnect the subs I wont get any bass frequencies. Can the deqx be configured with full range for P1 (once we do this) and then for P3 using the subs as I am now on the fly? I assume that should be easy right? Or do we have to change Deqx profiles?
Nice setup btw. Wow, that bass must be out of this world.. I am thinking of getting the HDP5 to future proof myself in case I go active, instead of the premate. Plus the screen looks pretty cool
|
Yes...
P1 - configure as ’single amp with stereo subwoofers’ & use a (new) full range measurement & calibration without subs. Disable the subs in this config
P3 - configure as ’single amp with stereo subwoofer’ & use the calibration you already have. Enable subs in this config.
In my setup, bass goes down to 16hz -2dB which I’m happy with. You mention the screen - funnily enough I have it disabled, too much of a distraction when I’m listening in a darkened room.
If you go active, try Open Baffle because the transients they can produce give sense of realism I haven’t even experienced with horn speakers. At very high volume, drums ARE drums & it’s almost impossible to hear the difference between a well recorded acoustic guitar & the real thing.
DEQX measurements indoors can produce great results but done properly outside, the results really are in a different league. It is worth the effort.
|
So I got the hdp5 and installed the Dave. Sounds pretty good. I tested the Dave without the deqx in the chain and lteffered the deqx on its own. With the deqx and Dave it sounds very transparent. I'll need a bit more time with it together. It really showed me again how good the deqx is.
I still have the subs running seperately from the deqx. Do you think it will sound better as full range into the Dave? Alan from deqx seems to think I would get worse results going full rangez even though my speakers are designed to go full range without the subwoofer rca plugged in.
On a side note can the deqx delay the subs by a full 1.5seconds? I need to know because the mscaler delays music by about 1.5seconds and need to know if the deqx can do that if I keep my subwoofers in the chain? |
I agree with Alan, it gives the opportunity to place the subs in order to manage room nodes better than using just a pair of full range speakers.
However (I'm not at home to check this at the moment), I'm pretty sure you could not add as much as 1.5 seconds delay to the subs. I believe the max available is in milliseconds so this probably means you could not use them with music. |
Question.
Do you find the DEQX output level to be low without increasing the gain on the DEQX control panel?
ozzy
|
No, the only increased gain I've set via the control panel is volume matching for two subs to main speakers on an HDP-3 slave processor.
The master HDP-5 has no gain adjustment - most listening is within the 'blue' light range on the front display, or 'pink' for higher volume, only occasionally needing 'white' when using a lower output cartridge on a turntable or if I want extreme volume levels. |
drewan,
Interesting, perhaps it is my source (PS Direct Stream Dac) that feeds the DEQX.
ozzy
|
Hi Ozzy, I’ve never adjusted the gain on my HDP-5 via the Control Panel, and I believe that increasing the gain via the Control Panel would reduce the headroom that is available for frequency response boosts that may be introduced for purposes of speaker calibration, room correction, or equalizations that may be desired. In turn resulting in the possibility of clipping the output circuits of the DEQX. I believe that would apply to both the analog and digital outputs. My present amplifier (a Pass XA25) has relatively low gain (20 db), and what I have done to add some gain is to change the internal jumpers in the DEQX which control the voltage range of its analog outputs that I use to drive the amp. See page 166 of the manual. Relative to the default position of the jumpers that results in a 4.9 db gain increase on the single-ended outputs I use, and I’m pretty certain that is accomplished without any sacrifice in headroom. Those jumpers have no relevance to digital outputs, however. Best regards, -- Al |
Hi Drewan
I have the hdp5 now and have tried the chord Dave. I have to say it has made me like the deqx even more.
I tried the Dave on its own and the deqx sounded better due to the room treatment. I have tried the Dave as a dac after the deqx and feel it is ok. Maybe slightly wider soundstage maybe I can hear more in the music. However in some way it sounds more smeared if that makes sense. The deqx on its own without the Dave still holds its own and it may be my preference, considering the price difference
Do you think I need to recalibrate the deqx with the Dave to make it sound better? Is that what you did when you added dacs? |
Thanks Almarg for your post.
I have previously moved the input jumpers to the max position from the default position, but then I noticed that the input sometimes clips on the DEQX control panel screen. So that’s when I went to the DEQX control panel to add 10db gain to the output. The output does not seem to come close to clipping, maybe midway to 3/4 at max on the meter.
Since I own the Premate which does not have a traditional volume control setting, I have to rely on the color of the lights on the DEQX for output volume levels. I like to keep the volume in the "blue zone".
I wish you had the same unit so I could know if my output volume settings is typical with adding the 10db gain.
Merry Christmas!
ozzy
|
Hi steveo888, I hope you're having a good Christmas
I have only added DACs as source components upstream of DEQX & this has no impact on calibration so that would be unnecessary. I have an external DAC with various digital inputs & also analogue pass through (for a second turntable & SACD player) & this connects to my HDP-5 via the balanced XLR analogue inputs.
It's recommended to re-measure & re calibrate when components are added downstream of the processor. |
Anybody have any insight on the hdp-5 and how it compares with any of the following: Lyngdorf 3400 TDAI (DSP is done via microphone) Linn SELEKT (DSP is done using measurements) Anthem ARC2 (DSP is done via microphone) https://www.deqx.com/products/hdp-5/ (??) How does the DEQX stand in relation to the others? |
@yyzsantabarbara - Firstly I must remind you that my & any other replies here are likely to be rather biased towards DEQX - you might get more balanced responses elsewhere!
Having said that, the single feature that probably gives it an edge are the speaker measurement & correction algorithms which I don’t believe are available in any of the others mentioned above.
Lyngdorf 3400 TDAI
I’m not familiar with this - it handles room correction & crossovers & is Roon ready. This product does not appear to have speaker time-phase correction though.
Linn SELEKT
I’m very familiar with Linn Exakt which (as with Selekt) uses room dimension/material based ’space optimisation’ calculations. It can produce very good results although DEQX does have greater transparency, sharper imaging and a more realistic sense of the soundstage. Bass is also tighter and more defined via DEQX, no matter how much effort I put into improving this on the system I set up. Logic suggests to me that this results from actual measurement of the speakers being used (via DEQX) vs calculations (via Linn).
Linn Space Optimisation can get close to DEQX but the two systems I am comparing are ~$350k Linn vs ~$85k DEQX (which makes the latter somewhat of a bargain!) Calculations do not match the accuracy of a mic based processor & when we measured the Linn room separately using REW, some of the auto corrections were inaccurate by comparison - manual adjustment after using a mic improved things.
However one aspect that I prefer with Linn is the ability to set individual eq for each channel, as opposed to DEQXs combined eq approach.
Anthem ARC2
I have listened to a system using this processor & as with Lygdorf, it handles room correction & crossovers. Although ARC doesn’t work in the time domain (speaker time-phase correction), it does manage room correction better than Linn, especially if aesthetic considerations preclude acoustic treatment.
All of the above will be very good for room correction if that’s your main priority but if you are looking for measurement based speaker correction AND room eq then only the HDP-5 covers all bases (preamp, DAC, speaker correction, crossovers, sub integration, room eq, Roon). The clincher for me was the fact that the mic FIRST takes a clean measurement of the speaker, corrects each frequency for timing & phase across all drivers and THEN room eq is applied separately afterwards. As I said previously, this makes by far the most significant impact to the quality of music produced.
As far as room correction itself is concerned, my own opinion is that acoustic treatment is the most effective solution, backed up with eq to address only remaining bass peaks.
(...yyzsantabarbara your forum name implies where you live - we have family there & spend many months a year in town so if you do decide on any of the above I would be interested to listen)
|
Hi Drewan
I was talking to you recently about the chord dave with the deqx. I have just read some of your older comments and can see you are using a dac before the deqx via its analog input and I had some questions.
1. I was using the Dave after the deqx via the digital output, and wasn't overly impressed with it in that configuration. Do you think if I placed the Dave before the deqx via its analog inputs that it would yield better results than running it digitally out after the deqx? I felt the Dave sounded slightly different to the deqx on its own but not much better compared to the deqx. I have heard the Dave is supposed to be an amazing dac so I was confused with that.
2. The reason I was looking at the Dave was to get the chord mscaler which upsamples the file from say a 24/96 file to a 786k file which apparantly does wonders to the sound. Do you think if I placed a Dave and mscaler before the deqx via the analog inpit that the deqxs analog to digital Converter would ruin that up sampling? Or does the analog Converter maintain the nicer signal that is put into it? I heard you were running vinyl and dacs via the analog input and you were very happy. Not sure if you are still doing that.
Do you think based on what I done, the Dave would have sounded better before the deqx instead of after? I would check myself but have sent the Dave back interstate but I may be able to get it back.. |
@ drewan77 Sorry for the late response, I forgot to check this thread. Your response was very useful. When I get my small room sounding good you are welcome to hear it. |
@steveo888 Yes I continue to use both analogue inputs to the HDP-5 via: turntable->RCA & external DAC*->XLR (*including analogue pass through for a second turntable & SACD player)
The inbuilt DAC is extremely good but I have a preference to something that sounds very close to vinyl without a slight sense of brightness or glare (which I’m afraid I hear when directly inputting a digital transport, streamer or server).
These processors work at 24/96 so an upsampled input would be handled in the same way as any pure analogue signal (or indeed any digital input up to 24/192). Personally I’m sceptical about how audible these ultra high bit rates really are & to me ’upsampling’ is artificially adding something in that isn’t really there in the source. Not meaning to criticise those who do hear a difference or wanting to get into a debate!
The real benefits derived from a DEQX processor come from the work it does AFTER it receives an incoming signal, hence in my case the best possible analogue source. |
@Almarg:
Al: I should be receiving my Premate Plus, within the next week or so. I think I remember you said you built a small 'booth", around your calibration mic, when doing your calibration. Do you think this was a benefit and would it be worth my time?
Steve |
Hi Steve, For the speaker calibration measurements what I initially tried was placing large sound-absorbent panels behind and to the sides of the measurement mic, with each speaker having been moved to the center of the room for purposes of that measurement. The panels were placed something like one or two feet from the mic. That did NOT provide good results, because reflections from the panels themselves, while small in amplitude, were so close in arrival time time to the direct sound that the "booth" did more harm than good. I then placed the panels against the nearest reflective surfaces. One being a stone fireplace on the wall on one side, and the other being a large piece of furniture on the other side. That was definitely worthwhile in my case, as the room is only 13 feet wide and the piece of furniture (actually an antique radio/phono console) extends out about 2.5 feet from the wall on that side. In your case whether doing something similar would be worthwhile presumably depends on the distance to the nearest walls or other large surfaces, and their reflectivity. Perhaps consider trying it initially without any such measures, and see on the resulting impulse response/time-domain plots how many milliseconds from the direct sound arrivals you can "window" the measurements, before reflections become prominent. In my case, if I recall correctly the duration of the "window" I applied to the measurements was limited by reflections from the ceiling, occurring about 8 ms after the direct sound arrival. (Reflections from the floor were not significant because in addition to it being covered with a thick rug, when making the measurements I had placed a pillow on it, directly in front of the speakers). The panels I used were these: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/401266-REG/ClearSonic_S5_2_S5_2_Dark_Grey_SORBER.htmlGood luck! Regards, -- Al |
@almarg
Thanks Al. I have several panels like that mounted to my walls and under my TT platform. I also have some home made ASC tubes I considered using, placing two on each side, forming a triangular effect. I will have to raise them about a foot, to get them around my high frequency drivers. I'm excited and looking forward to hearing how the DEQX sounds. Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for getting back to me.
Steve |
DEQX turns out to be a no go
I returned the deqx premate plus today. It sounded good, but didn't improve my over all sound that much. Because I use two monoblocks, there was no alignment of time, concerning the different drivers, but it did do a great job of intergrating my subs. Larry Owens is a pleasure to work with and must recommend him to anyone entertaining the thought of acquiring a deqx unit.
Steve |
Thanks for the update, Steve. I’m curious, though, as to why the use of two monoblocks (I assume you meant per channel, in a biamp configuration) would make any difference with respect to the ability of the DEQX to improve the time coherence of the speakers.
Best regards,
-- Al
|
@Almarg:
Before my session with Larry, I was asked to put my speakers on castors, so we could take individual sound readings of each speaker placed in the middle of the room. Didn’t happen, Just took a reading of the listening position, with each speaker in their normal place in relation to the listening position. I was also led to believe I would have to gain access to each of the internal crossovers to achieve the time alignment. Didn’t happen. I should mention my best friend passed unexpectedly the day before my session and my head just wasn’t in it, Larry spent a lot of time setting up my deqx, but didn’t go through many of the steps I thought he would. |
Sincere condolences on the loss of your friend, Steve. Not moving the speakers to the center of the room for the speaker calibration measurements certainly figures to be a reason the PreMate didn’t provide much improvement. I had pointed out on 9-5-2018 in the DEQX thread you had started that might be an issue given the 410 pound weight of your speakers. Again, my condolences. Best regards, -- Al |
@almarg :
I'm not sure why he didn't want to take the time, to fully set up my Premate, but it definitely had a bearing on the outcome.
Steve |
handymann,
That experience is discouraging. I was considering a DEQX for a 2 channel area but don't have the time, patience or expertise to do it on my own.
I just installed a Lyngdorf MP-50 (with RoomPerfect) 16 channel processor in my dedicated and treated theater and am very happy with the improvement over my Marantz-8802A.
For a separate 2 channel system, I was thinking about the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 integrated for RoomPerfect and am intrigued by the HDP-5.
They are in the same ballpark cost-wise and I have amps to use
with the HDP-5.
Without (dedicated) support the HDP-5 is probably not a good option for me. |
@mlee I will concur regarding your sentiment with the time dedicated to interfacing with a DEQX product, but this is a very small price to pay, given the end result. I do not work for them, so I’ll do my best to avoid coming off as “salesee,” per se.
I don’t believe the devices are an apples to apples comparison. The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 is meant to be an all in one pre-pro, with additional external support capabilities for Roon and various other streaming capabilities. I believe it can be used with a dedicated 2-channel system, but you will have limitations. The primary one, you will have to decide whether you want to utilize the Lyngdorf internal amp and hook your speakers up to that or utilize the preouts to your amps. Per their manual, it doesn’t mention whether your able to utilize the 1 set of XLR preouts as a full-range signal, it references selecting “the design of the speakers for handling lower frequencies.” Nonetheless, that may make the choice for you, as you may not be able to utilize it in the fashion you’re intending.
I do own a DEQX, and it is involved, way more involved than the RoomPerfect configuration process. I owned a McIntosh MEN-220, which uses Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect algorithm and process. Fortunately, the DEQX community, support and “DEXperts” are available to make the configuration seamless, they remote into your desktop while you’re on the phone with them kicking back. Additionally, how much you want to be involved is entirely up to you, but very, very, very rewarding. You do have to take the measurements for them, while you’re on the phone, but you can leave if so desired...I had to, so I couldn’t stay for the entire process. I can all but guarantee you, you will learn about your room, your system configuration, how it’s interacting with your room, subtle things about sound and it’s interaction with the human ear, reflection points and all sorts of tiny variables which make this hobby so fun.
Larry was mentioned above, that is who I worked with. He was great. Once the process was completed, I called him back and we discussed what I was hearing, what I liked/didn’t like and we made some minor revisions. Not necessary, but we all hear and interpret sound differently, regardless of what a curve is showing us. I have 3 different settings, for 3 different sound profiles I gravitate towards, all switchable at the push of a button. In the two years that I’ve owned it, it has been bulletproof and has been, as far as I’m concerned, the single greatest 2-channel investment. Best of luck in your audio pursuits! |
Good advice from Todd.
I will also add, without meaning to be pushy or arrogant that I am an advanced user & have assisted a number of newcomers to get the best out of their DEQX units, answering questions by email, facetime or skype and reviewing/modifying .mzd files remotely. I am happy to do so for anyone that requires it - for free of course!. Likewise I am not affiliated, merely a very satisfied customer. |
ToddCowles,
Thanks for the input.
The Lyngdorf 3400 is an integrated amp, not a pre-pro in the home theater sense. It is roon ready as is the HDP-5. To me the HDP-5 would be a preamp, essentially used like the Lyngdorf but I'd use my own amps, as I have extra amps to use. If I had the Lyngdorf I would use its amp.
I understand you had a good experience with Larry but it seems there were 2 people in this thread that the speaker calibration part was skipped, thus not utilizing what seems to be one of its most attractive features. Thus, the DEXPert mentioned most in this thread seemed less than ideal. The poster handyman above ultimately returned his unit after his experience.
The DEQX technology is fascinating to me and I'm still considering it.
Drewan77,
I have read this whole thread and very impressed with your knowledge and generosity of your time and input. Your DEQX enthusiasm is one reason why I've looked into it.
Mike |
