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Daft Punk on my new 232!!!!¡!!!
Is Burmester 232 worth the price?
Just bought a Burmester 232 integrated amplifier for a hefty price tag. Similar priced models like Accuphase E800 are available for half off on eBay.
Did I make a good decision or should I have gone with Accuphase or Esoteric? Pointers are greatly appreciated. Why is Burmester considered ultra high end?
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@madhusudan_ramaswamy Break in the 232 for at least 200 to 300 hours. The treble will mellow, the timbre will present with more complexity, and the stage presence become more dense like a good 15 to 20 year old bourbon. Did you purchase the onboard DAC option? I have never auditioned a Burmester digital product (CD or Music Player). However, I have read only exceptional reviews of them. I may be incorrect, but I believe the DAC option is based on the 151 Mk 2 MusicCenter that is considered in the upper echelon of digital players. I would love to know your impressions on the DAC option if you purchased it. @kerrybh I have been a bourbon lover since freshman year of college where Jack had a permanent location on my dorm bookshelf above my desk. Jack and I had many philosophical discussions and heated debates on the state of being, and the core philosophy/theology requirement for a Fordham BS. The backstory to the bottle of Pappy pictured is that I had read a whiskey review published in the Wine Spectator many years ago that rated Pappy 15yo the best before it was popular. Serendipitously, a few weeks later, I saw the complete collection of 12, 15, and 20yo on the shelf of a large chain store. I picked up multiple bottles of the 15yo at $65 each, cleaning their shelf. It then became popular, astronomically priced, and impossible to get. I just finished the last bottle for my 70th with relatives that have an equal love as I. I am willing to spend the current price but I am ambivalent due to reports of counterfeits.
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That’s a good story. Nothing better to smooth out the highs during a listening session than some good Kentucky bourbon. I remember, I did a friend a pretty good favor, probably 35 years ago, and he returned it by giving me a case of van winkle whiskey. as you said, it wasn’t considered anything special since then. Well, I discovered several years ago. I had one bottle left and just on a whim got it priced by some of our experts here -worth about $1500 a bottle. Broke my heart, I could’ve saved All that Van winkle and been drinking Kentucky gentleman instead. Nothing wrong with that angels envy either. Wellers is my go to. enjoy! |
@kerrybh thanks for all the support. |
@jsalerno277 Did not purchase DAC option. Love my current setup. Sorry can’t advise you. |
@kerrybh someone on this post commented their build quality. Never seen anything like it. Studio quality. Phenomenal. |
@kerrybh my Luxman 509z is also fantastic but the 232 build is next level |
@jsalerno277 at the rate at which I'm going, break in will occur in mo time. Haven't budged since I turned on my 232 |
@jsalerno277 nothing too fancy. Wiim ultra. Still in the process of perfecting my setup |
@kerrybh wiim ultra. Looking to upgrade. Any suggestions? Don't wanna spend too much. |
There are literally dozens of decent choices in low cost DACs From what I can tell, but I would take a look at the DAC module for your new integrated amp. Burmester doesn’t sell anything cheap, but there is something to the old saying buy once cry once You would undoubtedly get the best synergy going that route, save a pair of cables And up your game while simplifying in the process. Otherwise, if you like warm, maybe something like a Lampizator? Again, they’re going to be people on this thread that will have better advice than me, so hopefully they’ll jump in. I can tell you from experience that once you start the upward progression, as you have, it’s going to bug you that you may have a component that’s a bottleneck. |
Just to add to the point, if you can stomach the cost, I don't think you can go wrong with the Burmester DAC module- I think thats a mortal lock. If you don't go in that direction, you might want to wait a while, let your 232 settle in, and make a decision down the road a bit. This will give you time to acclimate to your new (great) sound and determine what sonic improvements you want to pursue. Or, even better, that you are totally satisfied with the Wiim, but I'll wager you'll want something more at the level of the rest of your system. If you are in Houston, you have access to some good stores for auditions, although with a DAC you really need to hear it in your system to make a good judgment. Some folks think all decent quality DACs sound the same since its all 1s and 0s. I don't think that but its a point of view. |
@kerrybh great input. My system sounds phenomenal as is. The important components are top motch. DAC is not critical in my opinion but I will definitely keep keep your words in mind. |
The 232 integrated has an internal Dac I assume that's what @madhusudan_ramaswamy is using. |
@soix Yes |
@jond Don't think it has internal DAC |
Strange I took a look at the 232 product page and this is what it said, I guess the Dac is an option then.
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So, if I’ve got this right you’re using a $330 Wiim streamer/DAC with an amp and speakers worth upwards of $40k. I know you said you don’t think DACs are all that important and assume you’re of a similar mind about streamers, so all I’ll say is you’re not getting near the performance your other equipment is capable of. As an analogy, what you’ve got here is like having budget all-season tires on a Ferrari — sure it’ll work, but you won’t get nearly the performance out of it that you paid dearly for. |
@soix Theoretically what you say is true. But the fact is my ears are pleased without compare. Keep in mind I have not fully completed my upward progression yet. Am getting new high quality RCA cables tomorrow. If there is a mid end DAC/streamer you can recommend, I will be happy to look into it. |
@soix Actually I did audition a more expensive Cambridge audio unit but the wiim sounded better so I kept it. Like I said, I trust my ears first and foremost. |
It’s fine to trust your ears, but your Wiim is far beneath your system and although you may like the sound now you won’t know how much better it can be until you try something better, and there is far, far better out there. I’d suggest trying a better DAC with the Wiim first to start to hear what’s possible. For perspective, if I had your amp/speakers I’d have a streamer and DAC totaling in the $10k range so they’d be more inline with the sound/quality of your other components. In audio, the chain is only as strong as the weakest link and everything matters, and in your system the Wiim is a glaring weak link and is significantly holding back the performance of your system whether you recognize it or not. But I’ve only been at this for 40+ years so what the hell do I know? I’m just trying to help you here and pretty sure others will largely echo what I’m saying, but do with this what you will. |
@soix is, in my humble opinion, giving you good advice. Obviously, entirely up to you and I’m happy you are pleased with your purchase. I think it’s true that to get the full value from the very fine component you purchased, your other primary components need to be at least close to the same tier. I think for a DAC That would do your rig justice you likely need to Cross the $5000 threshold. As I suggested in a previous post, I think the Burmester DAC Module might be the optimum solution. When I bought my 808 Marc five preamplifier, I already had a very competent phono stage- not ultra level, but pretty good. The burmester module for my preamp ran circles around it in ways that I would not have expected. Something about the synergy, shorter signal path, etc. unfortunately, this stuff is painfully expensive, and there is also a school of thought h it doesn’t matter, but I’m guessing you could get a home audition of some comparable equipment and judge for yourself. At any rate, congratulations on a great purchase and good luck. |
@soix Actually I don't disagree with you. My setup is still in the works. Can you recommend a DAC model? I can start researching it. |
I really don’t think that’s an issue if a dealer does the job. I think your unit is like my pre-amplifier, it’s made to be modular so adding the DAC Will not be an issue. Some of the other smart people here may think that a separate component would be better, but I’d at least consider the Burmester because I think there are obvious advantages
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@kerrybh thank you. Let me start a new thread re what DAC to get |
Aero DAC by Linear Tube Audio, located in Maryland. If you upgrade the tubes, this DAC comes out to $4,500. It would sound great with your integrated. 30 days to try; small restock fee if you decide to send it back. (Not affiliated with LTA in any way). https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/aero-dac-digital-analog-converter |
@goodlistening64 Thanks. Talked to LTA. Will buy if they can ship it today |
@goodlistening64 Did my research and pulled the trigger on a new Aero DAC from LTA. Will be shipped out today. |
@goodlistening64 Sure thing. I will upload a video this weekend when it arrives so you will know how it sounds with my 232. Thanks for suggesting. |
I have installed 3WIIM products for friends and family. Including an ultra. While everyone is very pleased with the product, they all without exception, tell me how much more pleasing the sound of my system is. I am a fan boy of this company and will happily tell anybody who is interested about them. Hopefully, when you get around to it, that you’ll research these guys. Getting streaming right is sublime. Hopefully, you will find some Nirvana. |
Strictly and practically speaking I’d say wait until your amp has broken in over at least 200 hours so you can see which direction you might want to go sonically with a new DAC once the sound settles because it could change significantly and there’s really no rush. That said, I have some thoughts for you to research in the meantime… I’m a fan of LTA and own one of their preamps, but their DAC is tubed and in your situation I’m not sure you want to start messing with tubes, and it doesn’t offer balanced connections that personally I’d prefer to use with your fully-balanced amp. I’d strongly consider looking into the Denafrips Terminator 15th DAC for its combination of sound quality and price… https://www.denafrips.com/product-page/denafrips-terminator-15th-r-2r-dac https://soundnews.net/reviews/sources/denafrips-venus-15th-r2r-dac-review-a-feast-for-your-ears/ That said, if you can’t help yourself there’s a lightly used Terminator 15th available now, so at least if it doesn’t work out you can likely turn around and sell it for little loss. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650241770-denafrips-terminator-15th-dac/ |
@soix I love warm sound and should get warmer sound with the aero DAC from LTA. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. |
@soix The aero DAC does have balanced outs |
While the Aero isn’t necessarily a warm DAC per se, it should certainly be warmer/fuller sounding than your Wiim and a significant improvement across the board. The nice thing about tubes is if you find you want even more warmth you can swap tubes to tailor the sound more to your liking. And my bad, you’re correct the Aero has XLR outputs but does not have a balanced input, which was a curious omission to me unless of course it’s not a fully-balanced design that my guess is it’s not. Anyway, don’t neglect the digital cable between the Wiim and Aero because it can make a huge difference. I’d check with LTA as to which input they prefer but would think it’d be USB. Here are a few solid recommendations that won’t break the bank… https://www.lavricables.com/cables/ultimate-silver-dual-usb-a-b-interconnect-cable/ |
@soix i did check with LTA and yes, USB is most suitable. They are shipping a USB cable with the DAC and reassured me it’s good quality. I don’t know the brand but should I take their word for it? |
@soix this weekend. Will upload a video with the complete setup |
@soix also, I got the upgraded tubes for a little extra. I assume this was a good move? |
