The results I achieved listening to music through the Auromatic Auro 3D upmixer through the Marantz 7702 processor is as close to Nirvana as I have gotten and the results could not be achieved with two channel stereo, no matter how much I spent on my system.
I have heard and or have had long demonstrations in home of the most expensive gear in audio. Is the gear better the more expensive it gets. Yes most of the time but not all of the time. You can come up with great combinations for fractions of what some people pay. If it's worth it to you do it. If it's not then don't. Just figure out what your nirvana is then go for it! If not get you a jambox and put on your shoulder and live with it. Lol.
Everyone just be happy with whatever you do! I'm happy with what I have. If you can be happy with radio shack then do it. If you want top of the line then do it. If you are in the middle then do it! Don't criticize anyone because they don't do what you do!
There is no absolute sound. No use pretending that some arbitrary subjective thing like Audio Nirvana is real or can be obtained by anyone. It’s like trying to solve ten simultaneous equations in twenty unknowns. The sound of a very good system changes day to day, and hour to hour, so how can there be nirvana is such a fickle world? For those who have found their own nirvana or content or happy, whatever, I salute you! Now that we all agree to disagree how about a big group hug?
...I'll take my laugh track elsewhere, if the leaden hint is aimed my way. But it's either Nirvana or Purgatory, aka The Endless Hunt. Do whatcha do or need to...
I'm currently listening to my gato fm6 and a kr audio va 900 integrated tube amplifier with a Parasound cd1 CD player and clarity cable vortex power cords. I'm using a clarity cable organic interconnect and atlas Mavros speaker cables. I'm running a high fidelity mc6 power conditioner. I'm listening to the Amina Figueroa Sextext 12 album. I cranked it up and I'm in ear candy happiness. I give it my friend Charles he ran a system similar to mines. He found the speakers and integrated. God Bless his soul. I'm all about everyone enjoying their system. This has been a long 6 years for me. I went through 20 years of audio in 6 years. Lol. It was an expensive journey for me. However, I'm in a real good place. Thank you Bob Spence of Affirm Audio and Rick Schultz over at High Fidelity. My audio Super Friends. My friend Bill Smith found the Parasound Cd1. These are all great guys and audio nuts! Enjoy your music everyone. Happy ears right now!
To everyone else. There is some really good equipment and knowledgeable people out here. Some of the tweaks don't cost anything or cost very little. Get your system to,a,point where you are happy and enjoy!
calvinj OP 1,052 posts 09-04-2016 9:54pm Ask a question openly and I get some honest answers from real audiophiles. Then...... As usual we get the same people with the same comedy skits and negativity. Lol. I would tell you to go away but you don't have anywhere to go or do so enjoy it while you can.
And what question was that you're referring to, pray tell? And what honest answers are you referring to?
ct, IMHO there's the inherent limitation of headphones of any type (in ear or over, and the types of the latter) that your interview 'quote' addresses. All ears are not created equal from birth, and get subjected to all matter of 'inputs' through the course of one's life. We find ourselves with no 'common ground' short of sterile test equipment generating specs that unless those doing these tests exercise extraordinary care to match the situation of any other set of specs generated elsewhere, variations inevitably crop up.... And then there's the 'subjective listening commentary', performed by someone that's lucky enough to make a living listening to these wonderful objects that we're drawn to, who we take into account as we wade through the choices of said objects... So, short story long, one could surmise that I've developed a rather jaundiced opinion of our pursuit of the years. And since I've become 'officially old' recently (thank you, but I'm not terribly thrilled about it), I feel I'm entitled to do what I like to do and generally ignore the hubbub.
Headphones: I've owned them. I've used them primarily in the same way that you employed with the twins (How's the kids, BTW? *S*), an escape that allows enjoyment without annoying those about one. I own a wireless one now, used just for that purpose.
I prefer my music 'presented spatially', fully aware that the space effects the response, as does everything between the space and the format that renders it (LP, tape, CD, digital file). And the means by which I perceive it is pretty much SNAFU at this time, and is deteriorating incrementally as the daze go on....
Geo, you may be lucky as ct points out. If so, may the road rise with you and the wind be at your back...and 10 oz. will be a light load on the path to Nirvana. From what I read here at AV, few have gotten as close as you have. We should all be so blessed....
And I'm not joking/teasing/being facetious/trolling/or ?....seriously...
Heaven IS in your mind. Now between your ears. Ignore us...Enjoy. *S*
On a more serious note. During this chase of nirvana I have learned so much. I've learned from some great guys who are no longer with us. Charles Threat and Dave Baskin. They were great friends with each other and they were my friends. I will attending services for Charles this Saturday down in Texas. Enjoy your system while you are still alive. Tomorrow is not promised and if your system fringe you joy or the chase of equipment makes you happy do it like there is no tomorrow. Both of these guys did!
Ask a question openly and I get some honest answers from real audiophiles. Then...... As usual we get the same people with the same comedy skits and negativity. Lol. I would tell you to go away but you don't have anywhere to go or do so enjoy it while you can. I wish you would leave the forum but it's America! You are free to tell jokes that are not funny. Back to my my wires and worthless equipment. TGWR!
Should probably point out that all sound waves from speakers and live performances enter the ear and are processed as it were inside the head. The advantage of headphones of course compared to speakers is that the distortion and noise is significantly lower, you know, for the reasons I already outlined. Of course the will be those who swear that the sound should come from in front of you. It comes down to personal preference. The headphone set up has it’s advantages, including SQ, as I already outlined. And then there's cost. Shall we just sweep cost under the rug?
But....it’s not created that way. Music is not created between one’s ears. Or performed that way...well, not yet, anyway...
Music has a visceral quality that 10oz. of Anything ain’t gonna serve up. Nothing legal, anyway...
+1 Asvjerry
You know i tried to make it work with headphones. When our fraternal twins were born, I was faced with crying in stereo. They also never slept at the same time and I helped breast feed (I held one :^) ...a couple of footballs (picture an American football shape)
I needed music and I could not wake the babies. But I found to achieve the level of compression and equilibrium I enjoy in my rooms, I needed to raise the volume to where I feared for my hearing. Maybe it was my state of being at the time. Entry in personal log. Creation of my personal panic room. The year 1994.
Geoffkait’s personal portable nirvana and your comments reminded me of something I read many years ago. I think it is very fitting to post an excerpt of it here.
Interview with Peter Walker of Quad discussing the thread topic.
Interviewer : Is the path to that goal, then, with headphones perhaps?
PW: There is, I think, possibly a future in headphones if the material is recorded through an artificial pinna. (The shape of the outer ear.)
Interviewer: A dummy head?
PW: Yes. Then to do it properly I think you’ve got to use the pinna of an actual person there’s a lot of difference between the pinnas of people and according to Shroeder’s theories, if it was recorded on a dummy head with your own pinna, or with microphones in your own eardrums, then it can be very good. But if it’s somebody else’s pinna you lose these little decays from these little reflections. There’s a good article in America by Gardner. Even filling in a little gap in your ear with wax stops a lot of your up and down capabilities because you have lived with that shape for a long time.
TAA: You’d have to have a casting of your own ears, in other words, to make good "headphone" recordings.
PW: Well. it’s impossible to make records that way, because a variety of people have got to listen to them! There might be a future there, or there might be a future for sonic sort of close-up loudspeaker.
Ah, the Personal Music Delivery System. Given the 'right' choices of player and earbuds one can achieve Nirvana.... ...on an extremely personal level, all the nuance, tonality, attack, complexity, all those elements we love and strive to recreate.
But....it's not created that way. Music is not created between one's ears. Or performed that way...well, not yet, anyway...
Music has a visceral quality that 10oz. of Anything ain't gonna serve up. Nothing legal, anyway...
I will keep my collection of obscure metal and wooden boxes of wire and trace elements. Mine makes a joyful noise I can feel, and that's important to me. I suspect that's important to others
Its budget sensitive; if you spent all you can afford, you're much more likely to hear the good things in your system rather than the flaws. You can decide to be satisfied, and so to focus on the music.
I'm listening to Sgt. Peppers for the thousandth time and hearing things I never heard before. On a pretty modest system by agon standards. Nirvana for me.
mapman 13,663 posts 09-03-2016 2:37pm "You can get even simpler with tin cans and a string. Get with the program! 🎯"
Wasn’t it Einstein who was fond of saying, make it as simple as possible but not simpler?
"Actually I agree that smaller can be better. It all depends on the room and person. Headphones take the room out of the equation."
Exactly, headphones take the room out of the equation. That’s a pretty big, complex and expensive unknown to take out of the equation. The portable headphone system also takes the transformer out of the equation. And house AC power and it’s attendant woes. It takes power cords out of the equation. It also takes interconnects and fuses out of the equation. All of the things that, you know, produce distortion and noise.
"You aren’t driving any Magicos or Dynaudio speakers with the little 10 ouncer I Would assume. 😏"
The headphones are part of the 10 ounces, grasshopper. The Sony Ultralights, specifically. They come in at just under 1 ounce. Rare earth magnets even. Oh, and no crossovers. I abhor crossovers.
Dark Matter is a spray on thin film the active ingredient of which is an absorber of the invisible portion of the CD laser background scattered light. Everyone is of course familiar with the green pen for CDs that absorbs the red portion of the scattered CD laser light. As it turns out most of the scattered laser light is not in the visible red portion of the spectrum, since the wavelength of the CD laser is 780 nm, into the near infrared portion. Thus green cannot absorb much of the scattered light since the invisible infrared portion is not affected by color, green or any other color.
"And a tiny 10 ounce system can be tweaked to your heart’s content. Vibration Isolation, Dark Matter, Intelligent Chip, cryo’d CDs, cryo’d headphones, Morphic Message Labels, what have you."
I design vibration isolation and resonance control products, Dark Matter for CDs, the Super Intelligent Chip, Morphic Message Labels and a host of other things, many of which I use with my teeny tiny portable systems. Alas, there is no conflict between my tiny little 10 ounce portable system and my selling audio products as you suspect. Anybody can develop a big system if they wish. Big systems can be interesting, too. I have nothing against very big systems or very expensive systems. You do see the advantages inherent in a very small system, right?
Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica advanced audio concepts no goats no glory
mapman 13,661 posts 09-03-2016 12:57pm There is a lot to be said these days about IPhones and the lot. The newer ones sound pretty darn good. Could be nirvana. Better than a Sony Walkman even.
Good thimking, Moopman. Let me know when they come out with an iPhone that plays cassettes.
;-) ( the universal symbol for sarcasm and irony, just in case)
There is a lot to be said these days about IPhones and the lot. The newer ones sound pretty darn good. Could be nirvana. Better than a Sony Walkman even.
infection 406 posts 09-03-2016 11:38am I'm still thinking about the question.
On a business level...
mapman 13,660 posts 09-03-2016 12:04pm Geoffkait will give a simple yes or no answer one of these days maybe.
I hate to judge these things too hastily but it appears that listing one's affiliation in one's post here on Audiogon doesn't work as well as anticipated.
infection 405 posts 09-03-2016 7:39am Whether or not a 10 ounce portable system is my own private Audio Nirvana or not, as Mapman keeps nagging me to disclose, what I will say without fear of contradiction is that this tiny system is VERY cost effective. And as I said distortion and noise is inherently VERY LOW in the teeny tiny portable system, you know, what with the lack of transformer, fuses, house AC, etc. Audio cassettes sound VERY analog and CDs don't sound too bad, either. Hel-loo! Audiophiles tend to go about things the wrong way sometimes - they get enamored with the idea of spending more and more when they could have gotten better results by spending less and less. No more aftermarket fuses, no more super fancy interconnects, no more uber pricey power cords, no monster speakers and their attendant cables. No more teacher’s dirty looks. And a tiny 10 ounce system can be tweaked to your heart’s content. Vibration Isolation, Dark Matter, Intelligent Chip, cryo’d CDs, cryo’d headphones, Morphic Message Labels, what have you.
Whether or not a 10 ounce portable system is my own private Audio Nirvana or not, as Mapman keeps nagging me to disclose, what I will say without fear of contradiction is that this tiny system is VERY cost effective. And as I said distortion and noise is inherently VERY LOW in the teeny tiny portable system, you know, what with the lack of transformer, fuses, house AC, etc. Audio cassettes sound VERY analog and CDs don't sound too bad, either. Hel-loo! Audiophiles tend to go about things the wrong way sometimes - they get enamored with the idea of spending more and more when they could have gotten better results by spending less and less. No more aftermarket fuses, no more super fancy interconnects, no more uber pricey power cords, no monster speakers and their attendant cables. No more teacher’s dirty looks. And a tiny 10 ounce system can be tweaked to your heart’s content. Vibration Isolation, Dark Matter, Intelligent Chip, cryo’d CDs, cryo’d headphones, Morphic Message Labels, what have you.
Whether or not a 10 ounce portable system is my own private Audio Nirvana or not, as Mapman keeps nagging me to disclose, what I will say without fear of contradiction is that this TINY system (could it really be the smallest system in the world?) is VERY cost effective. The objective of this teeny system is not to be some uber audio nirvana system. Nothing like that, nor would I be so presumptuous. And as I said distortion and noise is inherently VERY LOW in the teeny tiny portable system, you know, what with the lack of transformer, fuses, house AC, etc. Audio cassettes sound VERY analog and CDs don’t sound too bad, either. Hel-loo! Audiophiles tend to go about things the wrong way sometimes - they get enamored with the idea of spending more and more when they could have gotten better results by spending less and less. No more aftermarket fuses, no more super fancy interconnects, no more uber pricey power cords, no monster speakers and their attendant cables. No more teacher’s dirty looks. And a tiny 10 ounce system can be tweaked to your heart’s content. Vibration Isolation, Dark Matter, Intelligent Chip, cryo’d CDs, cryo’d headphones, Morphic Message Labels, what have you.
Yes, it is real. But to get there, don't focus on getting systems that are accurate, have great imaging, or the various other characteristics that audiophools strive for. Search for a system that is MUSICAL above all else. Only then will you reach that nirvana. This is a discovery I've made after many years of searching without not knowing what to look for.
I'll vote Yes, map, geo....it's all very personal, after all is said 'n done....
Likely the only improvement would be for it to be surgically implanted and run from body heat. Control would be an issue for awhile, but given the pace of tech some format would win the day. Upgrades might be a bitch, but one must suffer Something in some way to 'improve' on Nirvana.
Besides, it couldn't be any worse than what some suffer now, what with cables, power cords, equipment types and designs, speakers and their inherent room placement/treatment, turntables, carts, DACs, on and on, anon....
mapman 13,658 posts 09-02-2016 5:41pm Is your 10 ounce system your audio nirvana? Yes or no?
By eliminating power cords, ICs, speaker cables, crossovers, house AC, ground, transformers, fuses, etc. one realizes significant reductions in distortion and noise. In terms of sound quality as I’ve mentioned previously my portable cassette player outperforms my portable CD player in certain important areas, especially Musicality.
mapman 13,657 posts 09-02-2016 10:10am "OK, my entire system weighs 10 ounces. No power cords, no interconnects, no tubes, no fuses, no house AC, no AC ground, no transformer, no speaker cables, no speakers. I barely have any equipment to speak of
OK, my entire system weighs 10 ounces. No power cords, no interconnects, no tubes, no fuses, no house AC, no AC ground, no transformer, no speaker cables, no speakers. I barely have any equipment to speak of
OK, my entire system weighs 10 ounces. No power cords, no interconnects, no tubes, no fuses, no house AC, no AC ground, no transformer, no speaker cables, no speakers. I barely have any equipment to speak of. So, suddenly I’m the bad guy? What’s up with that?
Ok thanks! I get what you are saying. All those factors are so important. Sometimes more important than equipment. The best sound I heard was at Dave Baskin's place at Designaudiovibeo before he past away. He had Soulutions and raidho gear but more importantly he had a perfectly acoustically treated listening room along with the equipment synergy. I do understand all that matters greatly. Im using clarity cable power cords and interconnects in my system it has really good synergy with the rest of my gear. Enjoy.
calvinj OP 1,049 posts 09-01-2016 9:19am Ah duh. I didn't know room acoustics, Equipment matching, synergy and other things mattered. I'm glad a got smart people like you to tell me. Laughing. Thanks for the basic information. Lol.
No. I'm saying forget the equipment. Equipment is a dead end. Equipment synergy, equipment matching, all that stuff.
Ah duh. I didn't know room acoustics, Equipment matching, synergy and other things mattered. I'm glad a got smart people like you to tell me. Laughing. Thanks for the basic information. Lol.
calvinj OP 1,048 posts 08-31-2016 8:53pm Finally. A combination that I can live with for a long time. 7 years changing gear at a pace that was dizzying at times. I have have enjoyed the chase now back to the music. Nirvana is real if you want it to be.
At the risk of beating a dead horse can I suggest audio nirvana has very little to do with the equipment per se and everything to do with how the system is put together, how extensively and effectively the room is treated and how many tweaks are administered?
Finally. A combination that I can live with for a long time. 7 years changing gear at a pace that was dizzying at times. I have have enjoyed the chase now back to the music. Nirvana is real if you want it to be.
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