Wait a minute Audiolabyrinth, you said in a previous post that you do not have experience with Analysis Plus cable? LOL! Will the Tara Labs Air 1 really "blow the doors off" of the solo crystal oval??
Well...I plan to find out!! I have a Tara Labs Air 1 ic on the way! Audiolabyrinth, should I put the Air 1 between my amp and preamp OR from source to preamp? What do you think??
BTW, the AP solo crystal oval interconnect needs 250-300hrs of burn-in before it really does it's thing. My experience with the ic is more like what Geoffkait has experienced in his system. On the other hand, my experience with the solo crystal oval speaker cable (after about 4 months), is similar to Jmcgrogan2's description.
Gotta say, I'm exited to hear the Tara interconnect cable after all talk on the forum here! |
@Audiolabyrnith, I would recommend the The Two for $600 over the two pairs of the Air 1 Series 2 that you mentioned. The Two in that ad comes with the Isolated Floating Ground Station, and since that ad has been running for a month and a half, he could probably get them for $500. |
Hi Grey9hound,another gentleman in another thread has me being his cable broker LOL!,so I will be yours too,The very wise jmcgrogan2 brought to my attention xlr to rca adapters,there are some well made gold plated adapters in the i/c section of the gon for $30.00!,then at the same time this is your golden chance to be in the tara family,the air 1 series 2 1.5 meters i/c for $480.00, a deal!these are $1,700.00 new!,then there is another air 1 series 2 on the gon for $650.00,if you can find the means you better jump on the awsome deal of $480.00,the i/c called the one is 2 times better than the air 1!,but I believe it is alot better than most cables costing the same retail vs retail!,this air 1 would blow the doors off the analysis plus cable you are not happy with!remember, 300 hrs of break-in before you make your evaluations of this cable!,grey9hound,this is a great opportunity to save alot of money and get some decent bass and slam you are seeking!goodluck on buying this cable,with the adapters,I would! cheers! |
@ Grey9hound,dude!,those are some pretty good speakers!,92 sensetivity! 6ohms!,man-o-man!it is defiantly not the speakers that are the problem!,you need to know what two speaker post are the primary two of the four,you could not have had directional jumpers!on most bi-amp speakers,the post that drive the woofers are the bottom primary post,then you turn the signal going from there, directing to the top post,if they drive the mids and highs,with directional jumpers,if the top post drive the woofers?,reverse the whole scenerio.there is no way that directional jumpers will not work!If I were there i would fix till it was fixed!,LOL!the post that drive the woofers should be the primary post.,you should of heard my system when I turned the jumpers the wrong way!screwed!the sound was terrible,like the description you gave with the way you used the jumpers,or they were not quality jumpers!,oh,jumpers take as long to break-in as speaker cables,mmmmyep!300 hrs should do!cheers! |
@ grey9hound,what are you talking about?,waite a minute,I'm not that dumb!LOL!Ok,I will take a look,thanks grey9hound. |
Audiolabyrinth
Click on me "Grey9hound"
its in My System |
03-12-13: Geoffkait
Sound in my system is open, dynamic with exquisite detail and terrific soundstaging. Hey enjoy them, that's why they make so many different flavors. I know many audiophiles who love that immediacy, that feeling of being transported to the front row, however, that's not my cup 'o tea. I bought the Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval after doing much research through various websites. Most talked about it's tonal qualities, which I concur are very good. No one seems to mention it's soundstage perspective though. I like that mid-hall, laid back presentation that cables like Purist Audio, Tara Labs, Jade Audio and Stealth Audio present. I understand that what I like, others may not. I just feel that it is fair to mention, to save others in the future, from having to buy and then turn around and sell these cables like I did. You can't just say terrific soundstaging, that's like saying sounds great. It's too vague. It doesn't tell me if the cable is musical or transparent. I understand that you love the soundstaging capabilities of the Analysis Plus cables, and that's great. What that says to me is that you enjoy the immediacy of their soundstage presentation as opposed to the laid back soundstage that I am looking for. I'm not saying that my way is the only way, I'm just trying to help others understand different directions of sound in cables. Warm vs. Transparent tone, or somewhere in between. Soundstage is either deep or forward or somewhere in between. |
I have both the Analysis Plus Micro Oval In Interconnects and Analysis Plus Pro Oval Power Cord. Both have been cryo'd and broken in on the latest model AudioDharma Cable Cooker. They have also been broken in for at least three days of the XLO Test CD Break-In Track no. 9. Sound in my system is open, dynamic with exquisite detail and terrific soundstaging. |
@Waxwaves, I gave them a month or so, but I bought them used, so I don't know how much more time they might have needed. In my experiences, burn in may help a cable sound better, but it has never changed a sound that I didn't like into a sound that I did like. A good sound may get better, and a bad sound may get more tolerable, but that's about it. Not that the AP was bad, it had many good attributes, but soundstaging was not one of them.
@Audiolabyrinth, I think you are confusing bi-amping with bi-wiring. There is quite a difference. |
@ grey9hound,I understand what bi-amping is,At this point,like I said,what are your speakers and the specifications?,120 watts per channel should have no problem with a 8ohm speaker,unless the sensitivity of the said speaker is very low!this matters!,tell me what speakers you have and the model and I will do my own research to help you ,if you want my help?cheers! |
well, i did not give them a full 200 hours , but about 100 hours.
Audiolabyrinth, i am not using any jumpers ??? i don't know if you do not understand what bi-amping is or not ??
you keep talking about jumpers vs bi-amping ???
Any sopeaker that has more than one set of terminals will require jumpers ,and that is the way most people run them.
My amp only puts out 120 watts per channel into 8 ohms .???? |
Tls49
I have used identical cables with the Q10 and with some previous 12gauge cheap stuff.
Thw Q10 is setup for bi-amping(4 terminals on each end ).I had been doubling up the four connections into two when they were on top and the Synergistics on the bottom. originally i was running the q10s top and bottom |
@ Tls49 Hi,Thankyou for agreeing that jumpers sound better than bi-amping cables,another major reason I failed to admit to all here,Is the fact I cannot afford another pair of Taralabs omega gold speaker cables as well,for bi-amping?LOL! I do not think so, even if I had the money!,$24,000.00 a 8'ft pair retail!,like I said, you do not need another whole cable,jumpers,if you get a really good one is good enough for sound and the wallet!,grey9hound,something does not seem right?,gee,what are the specifications of the speakers you are useing?,if you have the jumpers turned the wrong way,what you described for sound useing the jumpers is what happens,I turned my jumpers around,LOL!,the wife come running in the audio room,she said,what happened!,the sound difference was really obvious!,and what brand and model of jumpers were you useing?,I had the oppisite effect!,useing the jumpers versus bi-amping speaker cables the sound with the jumpers yielded a better sound in every way possible,useing directional jumpers matter alot!,grey9hound,I like you,I hope I can help!cheers! |
Hey Grey9hound and Jmcgrogan2, did you give the Solo Crystal Oval time to break in? This "forward" soundstage may be a result of the cable not being broken in? |
02-28-13: Jmcgrogan2
Grey9hound, enjoy the new cables. :)
I just sold a pair of Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval 8 speaker cables, they had many good tonal qualities, but their forward soundstage just wasn't my cup of tea. 03-11-13: Grey9hound
#4 I tried the Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval interconnect from CD player to pre-amp ans they are too forward to my liking, Yeah, that's what I heard too. |
Audiolabyrinth , #1. My Amp is not powerful enough to drive these speakers to the level i want without bi-amping.
I tried running this way with jumpers and two amp channels instead of four . #2 The sound is more open sounding and dynamic when i am bi-amping. #3 My system is a little bright for music ,that is one reason for using the Golden Cross. #4 I tried the Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval interconnect from CD player to pre-amp ans they are too forward to my liking, also less bass than the Golden Cross ICs and a little bright sounding on some stuff, not bad mind you, I am sure that is more attributed to my sytem more than anything. I would say the AP solo crystal are probably more accurate but also very revealing .
SOOOOO . I'll keep on the lookout for some Tara the one ICs to try. Before i make a final decision on whether too keep the Golden Cross Speaker cables, I will try the Q10 speaker cables back in place of the Golden Cross.
Thanks for the Recommendations.
I Think the Taralabs the one speaker cables out out of my price range . |
Audiolabyrinth, I believe you are confused about Grey9hounds amp. His Emotiva LPA-1 is a multichannel amp that he is using 4 separate channels of the 6 or 7(configurable) to bi-amp his speakers. Also, you are actually single wire with jumpers on you speakers, and the other scenario you make reference to is bi-wire. Glad youre happy with your setup, and I do agree using single wire/jumpers as oppose to bi-wire, although a lot of people do like bi-wire. Dont want to open that can of worms.
Grey9hound, have you ever used identical speaker cables? Just curious. |
Hi Grey9hound, I know there is opinions out there,I will base mine on facts!,1.I have bi-amp speakers my self,2.I use to run two sets of cables,3.I use jumper cables that are directional,they have arrow signs to show the way to use the cables for the signal,4.speaker cables are larger in diameter on the most part,5.jumpers need to have a fair size diameter around themselfs,6.all speaker cables for bi-amping need to run to the bottom post,thats most likely where the main connection is for the cross-over inside the speakers,7.most bi-amp speakers come with a little cheap plate of some sorts to connect all 4 binding post of the speakers to get all the drivers to work,8.a signal looses its intergrity the further it has to travel!even inside componets!,9.based on the last previous fact,It makes since that a quality jumper that is 8" to 10" will loose less signal purity!10.never use a cable that is one cable with 4 cable ends!,for example,a nordost vahalla regular speaker cable that is made for two inputs of course, has two ends with all of its conductors,when nordost makes a bi-amp speaker cable,they do not double the conductors!,most cable brands do not!mmmm,why?the cable would be twice the price on the most part!,and most of the science of the cables inductace and capcitence would be out the window!,in other words,the cable was not designed that way to begin with!,11.It makes good scientific since to run jumpers,they do not need to be the same in diameter around as the speaker cables do!,since they are a whole lot shorter and loose alot less signal intergrity and you are not splitting the mass of the conductors versus bi-amping cables..fially 12.jumpers sound even better than running 4 complete seperate speaker cables as well!,,now!,I do not want to sound like a Taralabs cable pusher,I am a consumer,you can buy what ever brand you want,unfortunally they will not have the same sound!,,I have the Taralabs omega gold speaker cables that are crazy exspensive,are out of reach for most audiophiles!,the Taralabs omega jumpers I have are only $800.00 10" and come with bannanas and spades,In the reach of most audiophiles!,I even put them with the speaker cable called the one,to see what that sounded like recently!,these jumpers are not on the tara web site,call tara and ask for devon,and tell him keith henry, down in mobile,ala told you to call,tell him to get the omega jumpers made and sent to your addresse,,the conductors are wound in a helix configeration the same as the omega speaker cables themselfs with air tubes inside like the omega series cables have,only the omega speaker cables are made this way,the rest of the tara line up is not!now thats if you want them!now for the bomb!,these tara omega jumpers are the most profound improvement to bi-amp speakers I have ever heard!I have listened to alot of other jumpers,not remotely close in transparency or in eany other way possible!,,man-o-man,to tell you the truth,honestly,I would scrap the fricken cardas cables,and use tara the one speaker cables on the bottom speaker post and run the omega jumpers signal from bottom to the top post!I will literally Kiss your axx if you do not believe this is the best sound for the money,I would even get the jumper and use it with the cardas untill you get the tara the one speaker cables,,the tara set-up I am recommending the one speaker cables,the omega jumper cables,is fricken to die for!If you want such a realistic sound that it becomes emotional and tears fly about,this is it!,you also will have bass debpth and incredible slam!,you will have happy listening,cheers! |
one amp with four channles for two speakers |
@ grey9hound,are you useing one amp with 4 speaker outputs for bi-amping,or two amps? |
@ dave_b,I believe you are talking about tubes,I agree!the nos 6h30p-Dr supper tubes is exactly what I am talking about,man-o-man,,you said super or better,ok,tell me what is better,I was not aware of that tube!,thankyou,I welcome all knowledge of audio,no one knows it all!,defiantly not me!cheers! |
@ dave_b,I believe you are talking about tubes,I agree!the nos 6h30p-Dr supper tubes is exactly what I am talking about,man-o-man,,you said super or better,ok,tell me what is better,I was not aware of that tube!,thankyou,I welcome all knowledge of audio,no one knows it all!,defiantly not me!cheers! |
My last question here was asking which interconnect should i use for the pre-amp to amp on the bass cahhels . I am bi-amping . This is for the pre-amp to amp ( the bass channels to the speaker) .they are crossed over @ 150 hz . So the signal from the amp to the speaker will only be 150 hz and below .
What i am using now is Golden Cross ICs. That seems a waste for 150hz and below .i was asking for some suggested ICs That are good for Bass (Tight and defined is what i am looking for ). The speaker cables for the bass are DH Labs Q10s put together with Synergistic Research #2s. Both are used together , right now |
Well i am bi-amping. When i say that i am using Golden Cross ICs from pre-amp to amp on both channels for each speaker . The way i said it makes it sound like i am talking about speaker cables because i said that i am using GC ics on the top and the bottom of each speaker .
I should have said that i am using the Golden crocc ICs for the input channels from pre-amp to amp channels . I am using one amp channel for the top of each speaker (L/R)and an amp channel for the Bottom odf each speaker (L/R)
I total of four amp channels for Front Left and Right speakers . I am using Golden Cross ICs on all four channels fromj pre-amp to amp.
Sorry for the confusion |
Jmcgrogan thanks for the other sites, I am about done with agon, can't even get a new thread posted... |
@ grey9hound,Hi,are you tring to improve the sound of a pair of bi-ampable speakers?,I know you said bass,thats not the question,bass will come with my two cents worth,run the speaker set-up by me again to clarify my thoughts,cheers! |
@ jmcgrogan2,Hi,My response to your 3-8-13 post would be that I want a little of that liquid sound,so I will use nos 6h30p-DR tubes and maybe nos 6c4p tubes in the power supply of the ayon player,interesting you know alot about tubes,I look forward to your opinions and recommendations,you have my respect.,happy listening! |
@ jmcgrogan2,Hi,My response to your 3-8-13 post would be that I want a little of that liquid sound,so I will use nos 6h30p-DR tubes and maybe nos 6c4p tubes in the power supply of the ayon player,interesting you know alot about tubes,I look forward to your opinions and recommendations,you have my respect.,happy listening! |
No, the M1 is a speaker cable, sorry. I would imagine any inexpensive interconnect should drive the bass frequencies. |
I was asking about Interconnects from the pre to amp.
Is the M1 an iterconnect ? ...cause it comes up as speaker cable . |
Hi grey9hound,I am confused?,you have bi-amp speakers,I see you are asking about interconnects,why?,unless I am wrong,I have never heard of useing i/c on speakers with the exception of sub-woofers that require an i/c,if you can clarify my confusion I may put my two cents worth in.cheers! |
Yea, you can just throw a pair of Monster M1 on the bass. There's a pair for sale now, I have no relation with the seller. |
The absolute best is Transparent....preferrably Super or higher:) You will be astounded!! |
Ok Everybody, I need your expertise on one more thing. I am Bi-amping my speakers . Currently I am using Golden Cross ICs from pre-amp to amp. I am using them on the top
(8" Midrange woofer and Vifa DX25-TG05 tweeter ) and also on the bottom (one 8 " Woofer) .
It seems to me that it is quite a waste to use Golden Cross on the bottom. Is there an IC that is Great on bass alone .
I know some of the monster cables , that are relatively cheap, do bass very well.
Also would it be wise to use a sub specific cable . Keep in mind that the Woofer is crossed over at 150 HZ
Here is the Specs
http://www.sourcespeaker.com/8211CWC-2.html |
|
@ jmcgrogan2,I have already thought about what you just posted about the tubes,My answer would be 6h30p-DR and 6c4p in the power supply,I would still gain the dynamics you described,I will also benefit more transparency than the stock tubes and gain the liquid sound you mentioned,the krell 700cx alone to me has some of the best sounding mid-range I have heard from solid state,the dr-tubes will be pre 1986 Russian tubes of course,I'm told the earlier tubes are made to military specs and sound way better than 2013 tubes,very exspensive,I suppose you get what you pay for!,interesting,you seem to know alot about tubes!,I will look forward to your opinions and recommendations,you have my respect!cheers! |
@Audiolabryinth, I hope the Ayon works out for you. I have no experience with the Ayon line, but I do have experience with the 6H30 tube, with BAT and ARC gear. IMHO, the 6H30 has many fine qualities, dynamics and power come to mind.
In the long run, I tend to prefer the 6SN7 or 12AX7 tube types for small signal amplification. They are not quite as dynamic and powerful as the 6H30's, but they have a more liquid, or sweeter midrange. Just like ice cream, that's why they make so many different flavors. ;) |
@ jmcgrogan2,again, If the componet does not sound very real with the cables I have that componet is history, thats why I am doing The Ayon 2s player first,Its better to make A $6,350.00 mistake versus a $12,500 mistake,thou up-on research,none of this should result in a mistake,as I said before,I make damm sure the possibility that the player will sound good before I purchase it,with crazy obsessive research and user feedbacks of the componet in question.cheers! |
@ jmcgrogan2,I had to add that I love vinyl as well,It seems that I got myself into such high cost of cables, that I can only run a cd-player direct to amp,as I said,If I like the sound of Ayon 2s, I will get the 5s,then I can work toward vinyl,since the 5s has a real analogue pre, versus a very well made,one of the best digital volume controls out there, very close to an analogue pre-amp volume control 2s,the 5s has all the pre-amp connections to make vinyl possible,I plan to modify the hell out of the 2s thou,from the a/c cord, to changeing the stock tubes, to changeing all the stock fuses,to changeing out the a/c cord iec connection on the player its self to a furtech,maybe some tube resonators,I do not know about that decision yet,there is drawbacks to that scenerio.cheers! |
@ jmcgrogan2, I am a tube lover myself,I am waiting for a Ayon cd-2s digital player that has 4 6h30 tubes,I wanted to try out Ayon,and If I like the sound of this player,it will land on my second system,I will get the Ayon cd-5s that has a real analogue pre-amp in side of it,this will keep cable cost down,since I can only aford one Taralabs zero gold 1-meter I/c,I love the realistic presatation of tubes,but love the accurate sound signature of a good solid state amp,to me,tubes and solid state combo is awsome!,I also love the full sound of Krell amps,I guess I like deep defined accurate bass with a sound stage to die for with the tube combo.happy listening! |
Well, I'm also a vinyl guy too. Black licorice and some valves make music to me. To each their own. Enjoy. |
Boy, I sure would love to own something like that(VAC Phi 300.1a) too. I have often wanted tubes just for Music .
The biggest reason that i haven't looked into a better two channel sytem is two fold . First of , I like full range speakers better than Monitors with a sub. 2nd ,I also can't give up my Home Theater for a 2 channel setup. So.. I tried to find a reasonable trade off.
I play all of my music, whether it be Cds or even Pandora from Directv,(Which really doesn't sound too bad) , in Souce Direct or Direct mode , without any processing. This way there is only ONE Digital to analog conversion.
If i use a sub for music then I would have to have the signal processed because of the Inherent delay that all subs have. Most processors nowadays can take care of this (Audyssey). But to me it usually sounds better without all of the additional processing to sync with the delay of the sub.
Also , if i use analog out from the Source then there is one Analog to Digital conversion , and then a Digital back to Analog.
I always have found that the less processing of the signal the better the sound .
I also think my Cd Players Dac (Sony CDP-M555ES) is better than the DAC in my processor Marantz SR5003) . I believe most Cd player dacs are usually better than Most Processor dacs . In my case I know it is . I have tried .
I hope this makes a liitle sense .
I know it is difficult to explain clearly and concisley . |
LOL Grey9hound!! On another cable thread, Audiolabyrinth had me selling a kidney to buy some cables!! LOL!!
I may envy Audiolabryinth's cables, but he can keep his Krell, I'm more of a tube guy. If I'm selling body parts, I'm gonna get me a VAC Phi 300.1a. hahaha |
@ Audiolabyrinth
I would be willing to sell body parts or organs for a Krell FPB700cx. That amp is at the top of my list should I win the lottery, or somehow come into some money. |
Wow, What a cool story !! |
Thank You Tls49
I appreciate that . I will keep an eye open for those and try them.
I completely understand about being cantankerous old man.
I will be 51 this April ,and i sometimes have to hold off on posting or replying quickly to someone that i do not agree with.(I have to bite my tongue).
Now in my old age I have learned to wait a while and try to be diplomatic about it , although I am not always.
Well the Solo Crystal Ovals will not deliver until tomorrow. (Weather delays ).
I harbor no hard feelings on your comments prior. |
@ grey9hound, you did not offend me with the repost I posted on another thread,I am flattered,and feel you gave me alot of respect,thankyou very much,It is a true story that happened at progressive audio in 1997,before they sold the store to a new owner,back then they had a licensed room with thousands of dollars of sound room treatment and the system was avalon edilon speakers,mit cables,spectral equipment thru out,the very best of these brands,hell,after I did that test,I went down stairs and grabbed a Krell fpb 600 stereo amp and took off the mit cables and put taralabs the one cables on that system and it sounded way better than before,so good,we turned the volume up and blew the mid-range driver in one of the avalon speakers,I was horrified!the speakers at the time were $25,000.00 and I did not have the money to fix them!,avalon is located in colorado,I was there in columbus,ohio for a week,I drove from mobile,alabama,,the next day flipped me out!avalon flew in on a private plane and fixed the avalons in front of me!,at the store,they explained it was the only licensed room in the country at the time,and the store was not suppose to allow me to change out componets or cables!,the reason the store allowed me to do what I did was I had a great relationship with the dealer and the store,after that I bought a krell fpb 200 stereo amp!,and been useing krell amps ever since!,I now have the krell 700cx stereo amp that I love!,A toast to all,cheers! |
Grey9hound, I totally agree and apologize for being out of line trying to evaluate your entire system. I should have just answered your specific question. Guess Im turning into a cantankerous old man. For what its worth, and you care to give me a 2nd chance, heres a cable you should investigate, ZU Audio Varial. Sorry, but you rarely see them for sale, although they come up occasionally, that should tell you people keep them. They have been compared to cables costing more than 10 times their price. One of these is the Stealth Indra, currently $7000 for a 1M pair. I have personally compared the Varial with Stealth Metacarbon, a step below the Indra, and they are very close. I also compared Varial to Audience Au24 and Nordost Valkyrja. I preferred the Varial, just better overall, and since you asked, definitely better bass. Check out the links below for the reviews. On this one pay close attention to the paragraph below the 2nd picture of the Varials(XLR), and the last paragraph. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zu13/cables.htmlVarials are about a quarter of the way down the list on this one. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/awards_2005.htm |
I agree with Audiolabyrinth.
here is his post in a different thread.
Sorry ,I didn't mean to call you out . I was just trying to add to my disagreement of Tls49s comments
"02-14-13: Audiolabyrinth
this is an interesting forum!I do not know what systems Hifinut604 did test on,I will say I have done the same test with complete oppisite outcome!I even went further with the test than hifinut604 did,$.50cent i/c and $1.00 a foot speaker cable. I can here a huge diference between a $4,000.00 speaker cable and the cheap one,and the same effect with the cheap i/c and a $2,800.00,It was like going from a bycycle to a ferrai!LoL! with all the years I have done test, I believe the cables should cost way more than most eanything in your system,if you know what your doing!,one of my test was a $300.00 yamaha cd-player with resonance control on top and bottom with a $4,000.00 I/C,, woh and behold this out performed a spectral amp,cd-player,and pre-amp with lesser quality cables,,A whole lot of people were laughing! then there was the silence,I thought I about made them cry when they heard the yamaha player with better cables!,very true story!" |
I do not and did not think anyone here was a pusher of a certain cable.
I do believe everyone was trying to be helpful and honest , except Tls49
. I do not understand why he made the comments that he did.
I do realize that the cables are costly compared to the components, but i truly believe great cables can help a budget sytem like mine. i am hearing it with the Cardas Golden Cross speaker cables . i do believe and hv e experienced that even used cables, especially some of the Cardas take a long time of Running in to sound there best. i experienced that first hand when i initially installed the Golde Cross ICs. I really had a hard time believing that used cables needed quite a bit of run time . But i experienced it first hand and know that it is true .
the Golden Cross are sounded more and more clear everyday .
I thought initially there were muddy and kind of setback in the mids and highs... Not so much anymore.
The Analysis Plus should be here tomorrow. The seller created a shipping label , initially on the 1st , but they never got shipped.
They were Re-Sent yesterday and show that they will deliver tomorrow.
Thanks agian to all for the help.
i will post the results of the Solo Crystal Ovals... Soon |
