Seasons greetings..First off you will absolutely notice a difference with an amp upgrade...You’ll need something with a smooth,warmish sound for those speakers & a bit more than 25wpc...
IMO Simaudio has lost some of it’s magic since the i5..Haven’t heard Krell since the 400xi which I liked a lot..I don’t trust Sugden since my AmpMaster blew up..
I can ABSOLUTELY recommend the Pathos "Classic Remix Mk.II"(NOT InPol)hybrid which I am demo’ing in my system now...BEAUTIFUL build quality & aesthetics,made in Italy & a sublime tone(in my system)...Good luck...
PS:Talk to UpScale Audio & ask them if they can get you a discount,I got 20% off mine...
Integrated for Martin Login Motion 60’s?
I would appreciate recommendations for an Integrated Amp that would complement my speakers. Martin Login Motion 60’s supplemented with SVS SB-2000 Subwoofers. Cardas Crosslink cables. I would like to move away from class “D” to solid state class “A” or “A/B”. Amplifier must have pre-outs for the Subs. No DAC. Have read great things about Coda, Luxman, Krell, Rega, Simaudio, and Sugden. BIG room with 18’ ceilings. Sources are all digital. Listen to all types of rock and occasional blues/ jazz guitarist. $5k is budget new or used. My class “D” has detail and accuracy at lower volumes, but when I turn it up, it seems to lose depth and fullness. I’m hoping a Class “A” or “A/B” can help with that? If Luxman, 507 vs 550? Sugden A-21SE vs the IA-4 or ANV-50? Will I even notice a difference with these speakers? I realize the ML’s are not a reference level speaker, but I enjoy them. If you have heard these speakers with an amp you enjoyed, please let me know. I am not close to any brick and mortar to listen. Thank you.
Martin-Logan Motion 60XTi: Floorstanding, 35-25,000 Hz +/-3 dB, 80°x30°, 94 dB @ 2.83 v/m, 4 Ohms but compatible w/ 4,6,8 Ohm amplifiers, 400 & 2,200 Hz, 20-400 watts.
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Thank you for the tip on Pathos. Unknown to me until now for some reason. Yes, beautiful amp and much lighter than it looks. I forgot to mention I am limited to approximately 50 lbs by my rack and my aching back. The tubes make me a little nervous. You mention 25 wpc may not be enough. Being somewhat inexperienced with class "A", I don't know what I need. I do know I have class "A". guitar amps that will peel paint in 5 watt mode. |
hahahahahaha,I’m in the same boat as your back,it’s 31 lbs.so we should be good a few more years... |
When I was looking for an integrated amplifier, I heard the 60xti speakers paired with a Musical Fidelity M6si. they sounded really good together. I have different speakers, but purchased an M6si, and it sounds really good for the money. You should definitely audition one. Lots of power and can play as loud as you want. |
@freediver – Reviews I’ve read for the Pathos amps are very encouraging. No noise which was a concern. A Heated Inversion Table sounds awesome but will take a big junk of change out of my Integrated piggy bank. Thanks. @robert53 – Yes, MF is on my short list. The M6si is 220 wpc. Do you know if this is class “A/B”? Based on the heatsinks, I can assume that it is not class “D”. Reviews say it has plenty of low-end punch which is encouraging. Appears to be allot of bang/ buck. Thanks for feedback with the ML 60’s. The M6si looks tempting as well but is over my weight limit. @kevtekav22 – Thanks for bringing the XS3 to my attention. I had assumed that all Naim Integrateds had onboard DACs but the XS3 appears not to. Looks like binding posts are bananas only so I would have to replace my spade-ended speaker wire as well. Thanks. @pureclarity – I have seen this amp but have not read anything about it. I like that it’s made in US. The price looks very competitive. I see they offer a Signature model as well with 125 wpc. I will do some more research on these amps. Thank you. So many choices. I miss the good old days when I had 5-6 brick and mortar stores all within 35 miles from home. All I had to do back then was go and listen. |
@audiostick For what it's worth, several years ago, when I was auditioning speakers for my two-channel system, a friend and I spent approximately 3 hours of serious seat-time A/B'ing a pair of Martin Logan Motion 60XTi speakers and a pair of GoldenEar Triton 2+ in the same sound room of a high-end shop. According to the salesperson, the ML had approximately 40 hours of play time on them and the Golden Ear about 20. We used a Simaudio Moon Neo 340 IX integrated amp and a Marantz CD6005 that day. Both my friend and I were super impressed with the Simaudio! In fact, I was so impressed I came away from that experience feeling that If I had spent time with that amp before purchasing my McIntosh MA5200, I may very well have come home with it, instead of the MAC. I chose the MAC after many hours of serious seat time listening to it and a Luxman integrated (forget the model) in the same shop, same sound room, with a pair of Focal Aria 936, Rega P3 with Ortofon Blue and a Rega CD Player. The MAC and Luxman sounded virtually identical. About half an hour before this, in a different shop across town, I had spent a couple hours of serious seat-time with a Musical Fidelity M6si and a pair of Paradigm towers. As you probably already know, it is very difficult to make fair comparisons of high fidelity equipment in different shops, different sound rooms, using different equipment, etc. As such, suffice it to say that I was very, very favorably impressed with all of the products I've mentioned here. That being said, however, on the day my friend and I spent time with the Simaudio, the ML and the GoldenEar, both of us preferred the ML but only by half a hair. The ML Motion 60 XTi are great speakers, given the right sound room. Based upon personal experience with these speakers in different shops & sound rooms, I believe they, like any speakers with AMT tweeters, require a good amount of space behind the listening position (e.g. 6' or more). Otherwise, listening fatigue becomes a factor. |
@robert53 - Sorry, meant to say that the MF M6si500 was over my weight limit. Probably more amp than I need anyway. Thanks again for your input. |
@oldaudiophile - Lots of great input here. Simaudio is on my radar but would prefer not to pay for an onboard DAC. Interesting that it stood out to you. I would also like to know which Luxman you were listening to that you thought sounded virtually identical to the MAC as I have not heard that before. Yes, store-to-store comparisons are difficult but at least you got to listen and were left with an impression when you left the store. Good to know that you liked the MF M6si as well. It definitely checks allot of boxes for me. Now that you mention speaker placement, it rings a bell that they need to be out quite a way from the back wall. Yikes, 6’ is a big space even for my big room but I may have to give that a try. Thanks for all of this, greatly appreciated! |
@audiostick Amp shopping, for me, was about 3 or 4 years ago, now. So, I'm not sure which Luxman I spent time with. If I recall correctly, it had pale yellow VU meters. So, I guess that would have been either the L-550 or the L-590. My short list came down to either the MAC MA5200 or the MF6si. I would have loved to A/B both of them in the same sound room with the same equipment but, alas, that wasn't possible. It was a difficult decision. They are both great amps. The sound room I A/B'ed the Luxman and MAC in was more like my sound (living) room at home. The sound room I auditioned the MF in was much larger, had higher ceilings, hardwood floor, brick walls and was like and old refurbished factory building. With respect to the speaker placement issue, I do not believe the ML Motion 60XTi need to be placed that far away from the wall behind them. I think 2 or 3 feet would be sufficient in this regard. What I was referring to was the space behind the listening position (i.e. space behind your head). I've read reviews of speakers with AMT tweeters where the reviewers actually recommend a good amount of open space behind the listener so as to avoid listening fatigue. In other words, if your listening position is, for example, a couch up against a wall immediately behind it, this might not be a good thing. I actually did do some serious seat-time with the ML Motion 60XTi in two different shops. One listening room had a wall approximately 4 or 5 feet behind the listening position. After about 30 minutes of music at concert levels, my friend and I started to develop noticeable headaches (listening fatigue). After about 45 minutes, it was time to switch to a different pair of speakers. However, this shop used a 60 watt NAD integrated that I think may have been a Class D design. This might have been a factor, as well. The shop that my friend and I auditioned the ML Motion 60XTi in that used the Simaudio had a listening room with a good 9 to 10 feet behind our listening position. We were there a good 3 hours, if not more, listening to music at concert levels and had absolutely no problems with listening fatigue. We had a very similar experience in yet another shop where I auditioned a pair of Triangle Australe EZ speakers. That shop had a huge sound room with, easily, 20 feet of space behind the listening position, if not more. Amplifiers used there where all MACs. One was a big tube stack and the other was the MA5200. Hope this helps! |
@oldaudiophile - I’m kind of surprised more people have not recommended Luxman. I’m wondering if it is because they are not a good match for the Motion 60’s, or just because people have found Integrateds that they like better. I do realize that they are more money, and I would probably be looking at used vs new for the units we’ve all discussed here. Thanks for clarifying listening position vs speaker placement. Yes, I had mis-understood. Listening position for me is much easier to adjust! The 60’s are currently out about two feet, and chairs are out probably at the 6’ distance. I just need to actually take time to sit down and listen. When I do find time to sit, I am usually in the same chair. Now you’ve got me thinking about trying some different seating positions in the room. I’m using a Peachtree Nova 300 right now which is class “D”. The Nova is everything it was promised to be, but I’m really interested in hearing what class “A” or “A/B” will do for the my Motion 60’s. Thanks again for all of your input! |
@audiostick By all means, experiment with speaker placement and seated listening position in your room. Always good to determine optimum placement. Assuming you are using the proverbial standard triangle placement approach, I would suggest that your seated listening position be, al least 7 to 9 feet away from those ML, provided you can swing this and still keep a lot of open space behind you. I'm sure this will render better imaging & soundstage than 6', which I think is a tad too close for those or any great pair of towers. I also suggest that you try this: instead of immediately toeing the ML in, to the listening position, try pointing them straight out, first. Do some healthy listening there and, then, experiment with toe-in to see which position your ears prefer. I have a hunch you may very well prefer the straight-out positioning because those speakers have very good off-axis response. A final two cents worth regarding your amp shopping for the ML. Don't skimp on amp power (i.e. watts RMS but, more importantly, power/current supply). ML states the impedance as 4 Ohms and compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm rated amplifiers. I've read a few reviews indicating they are really a 6 Ohm nominal load speaker. Even though they are very efficient or sensitive (i.e. 94 dB/2.83 volts/meter), they'll play best with an amp that can feed them the current they need. This is why they sounded so wonderful with the Simaudio Moon Neo 340i IX, which has a huge power supply and doubles its 100 watt 8 Ohm output into 4 Ohm. I understand the reticence with regard to the options or add-ons (DAC; phono stage; etc.). However, if you shop around, for new or used, and do some good old fashion dickering, maybe you could get what you want for 5K or a little under. Good Luck! |
I recently did a pretty long audition / comparison between the $10K Luxman and Pass integrated and the Audio Research $6K integrated.
I found the Luxman to be very detailed, shy on midrange, with very little rhythm and pace… it sounded “high end” because of the preponderance of detail. The Pass in comparison was sooo much better balanced with good midrange bloom and really surprising rhythm and pace and nice punchy but accurate bass. The Audio Research was simply stunning to me with huge midrange bloom and rhythm and pace. The latter is my cup of tea… really musical. It may not be for everyone… but the Pass was probably great for nearly every system. It had no faults. The Luxman would work in a system that was overly warm and bass heavy. But I don’t think yours. Hence I think Luxman will work only under very specific situations and personal values. |
@ghdprentice - Great input on these three manufacturers. Interesting that an amp (Luxman) can possibly provide too much detail? I had not thought about that. I agree that the Motion 60’s are neither overly warm or bass heavy. I would love to try a Pass INT-25, but it does not have pre-outs for my subs, and I have grown found of them. The INT-60 has pre-outs but is an absolute beast. I don’t think that I could even get it inside the house by myself. I have admired Audio Research for many years and came close to buying a Preamp years ago but it was not a good match. Their Integrateds appear to be tube only or at least hybrids? Regardless, yes, great amps and I am envious of you. Enjoy, and thank you for your input. |