Hello: I've read and heard the term "synergy" bandied about frequently since getting into audio. Just the other day, an audiophile friend of mine said in an email. "Regardless of gear brand, I feel synergy is the most important thing to try and achieve really." This term "synergy" gets thrown around often and very easily. Most often I've heard this term used in the phrase, "amplifier-speaker synergy is the most important element of an audio system." I've always felt that if you put together a system and it sounds good to you or sounds "right", you have a system with amp/speaker synergy. I also felt that if your amplifier works with your speakers as it is designed without straining, clipping, running too hot, remaining stable etc., and produces good sonics with your speakers, then you have achieved synergy between your amp and speakers. I do an awful lot of research on the internet for all things audio (much to my wife's chagrin) and I've read several articles that discuss synergy. None of the articles I've read give a definitive and in-depth explanation of what "synergy" between a power amplifier or integrated amplifier and the speakers connected to it actually entails. So, I'm asking other audiophiles: What does "synergy" between an amplifier and speakers actually entail? Does anyone really know, or is this just one of those generalities that audiophiles put out there? What elements are really involved when synergy exists between the amplifier and speakers? I've always been curious about this subject
Me doubts that Fuller 'invented' the concept of 'synergy', since synergy isn't a concept but a word with a definition. His definition, as used in math, is closer to the chaos and unpredictability ideas than synergy. At any rate, Fuller's use of 'synergy' certainly doesn't fit any audiophile's misuse of the word! Bob P.
"Synergy means behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken separately" from Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking by R. Buckminster Fuller
You just cannot argue with the man who "invented" the concept!
And to Mrtennis: It sounds more like Asimov's Laws of Robotics (but I like your thinking!). Maybe Mrtennis' Laws of Audio? :)
"synergy in audio system is cooperation among the components of an audio system" - since when did electro/mechanical objects develop the ability to cooperate (or not)? It seems to me that some people really like bringing a fantastical element to want is essentially applied engineering.
I thought that we were discussing what synergy means and how that applies to audio systems, not that people misuse the term 'synergism' to mean something else, such as 'perfect', 'I love it and it pleases me', 'great sound' or 'better sound than when I had other equipment combinations'! Perhaps I am being too literal or 'objective' in my use of terms. Respectfully, Bob P.
Tvad explains it exactly as I see it - and you can even go beyond great food and great stereos to great orchestras, great paintings, great speeches, great cars, great houses, great landscapes, great music, great etc. It is what differentiates the "great" from the "good."
It appears that indeed this is turning into a discussion of semantics. BTW, what does semantics mean? The answer to that question will explain why I say that the use of 'synergistic' to describe certain characteristics of an audio system is the wrong use of that word. With respect, Bob P.
It may be semantics, but I agree with inpepinnovations that a system cannot be more than the sum of its parts, but I would argue that many a system actually ends up being less than the sum of its parts. It's this "negative synergy" that experienced audiophiles are looking to minimize. There's nothing magical to it, it's the usual suspects of impedance/gain matching, attention paid to grouding, speaker/room loading, mechanical resonance elmination, etc. You try not to have the same problem in multiple components.
Yes Tvad, but is the meal considered to be a 'synergistic' accomplishment? Not usually, but usually defined or caracterised as 'cuisine' or just good chemistry. Again, I submit that 'synergy' does not exist in audio systems, i.e. there cannot be a system that is greater than the sum of its parts. There can exist, however, a system where the combination of parts adds up to a more satisfying system than any one of the parts would leave one to expect - sort of the 'zero-sum' concept, when one deficiency is cancelled out by another's deficiency. But that is not synergy. Bob P.
interesting thought bob p, but the issue of your example is your statement that the preamp and amp combination sound better than expected. that is subjective, since "better" is a matter of opinion.
my approach is objective. also if in most cases the whole does not exceed the sum of its parts, there is no synergy in most cases.
i suppose, if synergy means "i like the sound", then your idea makes a lot of sense. but if synergy occurs in those instances when the whole equals the sum of its parts, there needs to be another explanation.
i guess, after all, there is no definitive answer, because the concept itself is philosophical.
Mrtennis, that is not synergy, but again complementary or balanced. An example of synergy and also why I say that synergy is mostly misused in 'audiophilia' is, when a preamp boasts 0.01% H distortion and its mating amp boasts 0.01% distortion, but if we measure the total distortion of the preamp-amp system we come up with LESS THAN 0.01%, instead of the expected 0.02% distortion. This rarely happens (in fact it never happens). It is possible, however, that the preamp-amp combination sounds better than what we might expect from having tested each separately for sound. The whole exceeds the sum of the parts! Bob P.
1)components must perform within the limits of manufacturers specifications
2) a component cannot prevent another component from realizing its potential
3) a stereo system is in balance, i.e., no emphasis upon an part of the frequency spectrum
system synergy does not assure that you will like the sound of a stereo system.
here are 2 examples of the absence of synergy due to component interactions.
consider a tube preamp and solid state amp. if the output impedance of preamp is high and amplifier input impedance is less than say 50,000 ohms, there will be an imbalance in the stereo system.
consider a speaker producing a 2 ohm load driven by an amplifier which requires at least a 4 ohm load. again, the stereo system will be out of balance and the amplifier may not function properly because of the demand it is incapable of handling.
I love the ideal of synergy! It really was the single word that got me to read more about audio and investigate the properties of that. Still, I dont know. I do believe it is true that "complementary" is not the same as synergy as a complete enity. It is perhaps an element though, and perhaps as a result of synergy. To me- in my endless misunderstanding of everything, synergy is really about the strengths of the individual components in union to create a certain quality and capacity. In a sense, I suppose you would have to have the vision to see these qualities in order to create the relationships between components and the design that would best present them. It is not compensation, regardless, because synergy could result in very bad sonics, and does result even in careless hands and on many different levels. There are bones and flesh to this- a structure, and then there is you and your perception of it. Honestly, you could be very thoughtful and informed, could place components together that exulted each other strengths and produced this "sound"you have always dreamt about, and then you could change. An important element of synergy is lost when all the elements are not related anymore.
Bob, that really makes a lot of sense to me. Your statement, "Applied to audio, perhaps two (or more) components that do not reduce the potential of each component involved in the "system"," I believe nails a large part of what "synergy" entails. When you put it like that, my integrated is truly not synergistic with my speakers since I know the speakers are not producing anywhere near their potiential. And it's not my sources or cabling. Good perspective.
From dictionary.com, syn·er·gy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snr-j) n. pl. syn·er·gies 1. The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects. 2. Cooperative interaction among groups, especially among the acquired subsidiaries or merged parts of a corporation, that creates an enhanced combined effect.
Applied to audio, perhaps two (or more) components that do not reduce the potential of each component involved in the "system". Whether the sound of each component performing at full potential is the sound you are looking for is another matter entirely. Bob
What most are describing is 'Complementary' not synergy. One component complements the other by making up for its partner's weakness or characteristics with its own weakness or characteristic. Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, which in a sense, for good equipment is an oxymoron! Synergy is a very misused term in 'audiophilia' - most of the time people mean Complementary or 'compensates for'. Bob P.
synergy can be 'a happy accident', the result of consumer trial and error, or the result of years of research and developement. two hi fi examples ofthe later....naim and mcintosh. one of the best reasons to scan audiogon before you buy is to see the feedback(positive and negative)in regard to component matching.
A marriage of components that produce an exciting and involving listening experience with all the attributes that audiophiles seek. I agree with S7horton, not sure if a more indepth answer is necessary.
Ditto to what S7horton said. Only a couple of very general things to possibly elaborate on. The strengths and weaknesses should tend to compliment and cancel each other, to achieve meaningful synergy. For example, if you have an amplifier known to be slightly bright, it's probably best matched to speakers that are slightly warm, to get an overall semblance of neutrality to the sound, etc. Things like impedence matching, etc. also come into play. Several other Audiogon members are likely to be much more knowlegable about this than I am, but that's my very basic understanding of the term. -Bill
If you're looking for a long winded answer there may not be one. I think that everyone has their own definition. To me, it means nothing more than when I hear it system it sounds right. Like the components were meant to be together.
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