If you still spin CD's their is a reference level Transport for reasonable money
It took all of one minute to find this review: https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/jaysaudio/ And there's more at the Jay's Audio website: https://www.jays-audio.com/reviews All the best, Nonoise |
Has anyone seen this new CDT? https://www.project-audio.com/de/produkt/cd-box-rs2-t/ It uses a new transport that's not commonly used. Also, here's the transport: https://www.suos-hifi.com/ All the best, Nonoise |
If you still spin CD's their is a reference level Transport for reasonable moneyYes the very good Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport, at $500aud. https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge_cxc_e.html Cheers George |
Just a heads-up. Jays products, sold as "new" on e-Bay, through Doukmall or Nobsound; DO NOT come with a manufactures warranty. You can read the disclaimer on the Jays website (for instance, if you look at the CDT-2 MK2 under "products"). Here is an answer direct from Jays: "No sir. Nobsound & Doukmal are parallel exporters. Product sold by them are considered gray-market item, doesn't cover with our warranty term. You may approach them for warranty & service matters. I hope they can support you further." Just providing this if warranty coverage is important to you. Tim |
I swapped out my DH Labs Silversonic BNC for a homebrew/DIY Furutech Rhodium + VH Audio Symmetry balanced AES/EBU cable and I am very much liking the changes, even after just a couple of discs on the new cable. Since I can switch back and forth on my DAC fairly easily, it's pretty simple to A/B the two. To me, the new cable feels less dark than the DH Labs. And Yggy's AES/EBU is purported to be "better" than its BNC, and just in general it seems AES/EBU is preferred to S/PDIF, but in any case, I'm happy I went the way I did. And I got to learn how to solder XLRs. Much easier than RCAs, IMO. |
@david_ten If I were financially in the position to buy it today, I would. Though I want a black one. I'm also really wanting to hear some reports on the quality of the Jay's Audio dac. Even though the price point is lowish, if we take into account the price of the CDT2 versus its performance.....I think the Jay's dac could be a giant killer. At least I'm hoping it is. |
What is going on? I know that in the review he was comparing the Formula with the Terminator. However you stated that in the review he says they were voiced similarly......which he didn't. Even in the portion you just quoted, he says they're not only not voiced differently, but voiced at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Aqua on the transparent end, the Terminator on the full bodied end. This is not in contradiction to anything I've said that reviewers have said. I'm not sure why you're framing it as such. Again, I think you've confused things I've said. Resolution is not the same as transparency. I have no doubt that the Terminator is extremely resolving. Almost everyone has said as much. However, if it's voiced to be lush, then it is embuing everything that passes through the DAC, with that lushness. Which takes away from transparency. Yes, nothing is completely transparent (my Tortuga preamp might be). I know this. But that's not the same as being purposely additive. Which the Terminator is. And that's not necessarily a bad thing if you aren't looking for extreme transparency. But I'm not looking for musical. I'm looking for something to pass along information untouched. That's just not what the Terminator does. I've read very few reviews that don't paint the Terminator as being an amazing DAC. In the next few months I might own one if I conclude that the Rockna is to far above my budget (it kinda is). I'm really wanting to spend much less than $16k. But at the same time, I don't want to be looking at DACs for a long time either. |
Denafrips Terminator 6Moons Blue Moon Award 2017: "A 'Budget-Priced' True Reference DAC" Perhaps the word 'Reference' isn't important.... BTW, the DAC in his stable for the comparison was the Formula and not the La Scala. Let's continue what you quoted above: "Right there, at ¼th the Formula's price but with added DSD, the hammer fell....Ultimate transparency opposes ultimate body. It's bone versus flesh. Our Formula sat closer to the transparency polarity. By definition, this meant a slightly leaner more lit-up lighter presentation. The Terminator moved over a bit to the opposite pole. This included more voluptuousness and weight. Quite by design, it mellowed whatever glare the Formula couldn't exorcise on poor productions. Audiophilia calls that more forgiving. It means that more of your bad recordings sound better. Only radicalized audiophiles call that irrelevant." Full page linked here for acknowledgement and reference: https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/denafrips/4.html They are opinions I'm repeating. Yup, Third Person works like a charm. First person be torpedoed. : ) Heck, one reviewer, whose opinion I respect was mightily confused by this DAC. These are points in time, with very specific systems during those periods, not necessarily optimized ones to a specific component. So my findings are different than Srajan's. This is coming from a guy who values Srajan's take on gear and has purchased based on his recommendations. I will be purchasing a speaker he loves, in a few days. I also find it interesting and curious that Srajan is searching for amplification that offers much of what he "found" the Terminator's strengths to be, in his system at that time, for his current fave system. I'm a high resolution listener and I'm saying I have been able to get the resolution you are likely looking for, at a fraction of what you are looking to spend. I can easily and inexpensively make this DAC lush, but I would not want to, nor have I. Over the past year, many warm and less resolved components, including speakers, components, cables, etc. have found their way out of my system. The Terminator has stayed. I can easily make it less musical and focus the spotlight on the details...but that's not what I want or am about. Far easier to get a resolved system than a highly resolved and highly musical system. The Terminator plays that way more difficult hand well. My proposition saves you around 12K or more new. The Terminator sells well on the used market and your loss will be minor. The Rockna, or the others,...well... : ) That 12K bought me a reference level 2A3 amp and preamplifier. And yes, I did actively consider both DACs on your list: the Rockna and Aqua; as well as the EMM Labs DA2. I believe the Rockna will be the better option, given what you have shared, than the Formula xHD, that is if my 2 cents hold value, for you. : ) All the best. |
@david_ten Alvin, from Vinshine Audio has said this "FPGA coding on Terminator is tuned to produce lush, dynamic and musical sound." And just enjoy every single review has said the exact same thing. You can have whatever problem with the statements you think I'm making that you like. But they aren't statements I'm making. They are opinions I'm repeating. You have your opinions on what you hear, and they are just as valid as everyone else's. When you hear the words lush and warm, repeatedly about a product, you tend to think it might be lush and warm. The 6Moons review did not say they were voiced similarly. He said this " and reseating a pair of XLR cables and the digital link. In no time and with no uncertainty, this showed how the Terminator was lusher in the midband; and had more general gravitas as though each of its steps left a slightly deeper imprint in wet sand. This moved color depth, tone body and dynamic impact into the foreground. In fact, this very much sounded like I imagine a combo of the Formula's power supply and resistor ladder would behave with the La Scala MkII's tube-buffered outputs;". If anything, he seems to be saying that it it voiced similarly to the La Scala, as opposed to the Formula. I've heard the Formula. It is not lush or warm, and I've not read it often as being characterized as such. I think you've misunderstood some things I've said. When I talked about something sounding bad, I was referring to recordings. As in, I want what's on the disc, even if it sounds bad. I imagine you have some dog in the fight that is clouding your judgement, and leading you to believe that because I don't want a warm or lush DAC, that I'm saying the Terminator is somehow bad. I've not said this at all. In fact I've repeatedly said I've considered purchasing it. But the fact remains that the DAC is lush in the eyes of many that have heard it, and the guy that distributes it. So I'm not sure why you're arguing with me about this, as though I'm just making things up. I'm not. |
I think that components like the Rockna, MSB Select DAC II, Aqua Formula, etc., try to be as transparent as possible, while the Terminator tries to impose a specific sound on the signal it receives. And how do you know this? You have said you would like to audition it, correct? The statements you have made are based on reading (as far as I can tell from your above posts). They are not accurate nor valid, like the one above and the one below: If the Terminator wasn't voiced downwards I have no problem at all with you choosing another DAC. At the end of the day it's your system, your money, your decisions. But I do have a problem with the statements you have been making. BTW and FYI, Srajan's 6Moons review of the Terminator compared it as being exceptionally close to the then Aqua Formula. The current xHD version is described as being ahead now, however at a price point of ~USD $17K. Per your own definitions, I don't believe the Aqua will meet your needs as both it and the Terminator are "voiced" similarly, per the reviewer who has extensive experience with the Aqua Formula and which remains his primary DAC. I think the Rockna is an excellent option. Your statement of what you are looking for is commendable in it's honesty, though I don't believe the Rockna will sound "bad" at all : ) I want as little of a component's sound as possible, and as much of the sound of the music as I can get. Even if that means it sounds really bad. I also want you to know that both the Rockna and the Aqua Formula xHD are DACs that are on my list, should I decide to bring in other DACs, at some point in the future. I'm letting the other readers know that the Terminator will deliver exceptional performance at a fraction of the cost of the other DACs mentioned. In my experience, since October of 2017, and with over 2000 hours of dedicated evaluative listening, I can state with confidence that it is a highly resolving and highly musical DAC. @teajay TJ, my apologies for my non Jay's Audio Transport posts... I felt the statements being made needed to be addressed...I hope you understand. |
While all equipment has a voice, I am not sure that all of it is voiced to sound a specific way. Yes, most is, but many also want to simply let as much information through as possible, while not sounding amusical. Price, experience, knowledge, materials used, etc. dictate how much of a voice a component has. I think that components like the Rockna, MSB Select DAC II, Aqua Formula, etc., try to be as transparent as possible, while the Terminator tries to impose a specific sound on the signal it receives. All components have a sound, but some are more overt than others. The Terminator seems to have a more overt sound, which almost everyone seems to love. I am just not sure if I will, as I want as little of a component's sound as possible, and as much of the sound of the music as I can get. Even if that means it sounds really bad. I believe a component can be extremely detailed while still being very colored. I want the detail, with very little color. |
@lordcloud All of our gear is 'voiced' as it is designed by humans, most of whom (one hopes all) listen to their products through development to commercial release. I have over a year of deep experience with this DAC. With multiple changes in amplification, server, player, power, cabling and isolation, it has stood the test of time and has kept pace with each system related change. In fact, as the system has been fine tuned and optimized it has scaled beautifully. This product walks that very fine line between timing+musicality coupled with an extraordinary ability to retrieve musical information and convey it with nuance and subtlety, all the while maintaining that 'elusive' balance. It took me awhile to realize just how resolving and detailed this DAC actually is. It's not something it shouts out, which says volumes. All the best in your decisions and choice. |
@toddrhodes I'm currently running my CDT2 into a modified MHDT Labd Balanced Pagoda, and I think it sounds outstanding. However I feel as though there is more musical information to be had, as well as me wanting to get tubes out of my source. The MHDT is good enough that I don't feel as though it is choking my system, but I do feel as though it may be a bottleneck, as every other component is pretty neutral. The Rockna seems to be the best bet for relatively sane dollars. If the Terminator wasn't voiced downwards, I'm sure it would be my choice. I'm also interested in reading opinions on the Jay's Audio DAC. If they can make their DAC as amazing as their transport......then maybe that's the one for me. Who knows. |
I think the Rockna can perform preamp duties as well, but it would probably come down to how many sources you have as to whether or not that helps justify or offset any of its cost. I’m following Mike Powell on YouTube and his comparisons between Vermeer, Rockna, and Terminator are a lot of fun to watch, even if the format limits its ultimate effectiveness. I wish they would settle on an i2s via HDMI standard, because as it stands I think there are some proprietary pinouts for sources and DACs so a custom cable may be necessary if the pinout on the CDT-2 isn’t exactly matching the DAC you end up with. That said, and realize a LOT of variables have changed since this time, but I ran i2s from an audio PC to an Aqua DAC several years ago and just IMO, the Jay’s --> DH Labs Silver Sonic BNC --> Yggdrasil, which at least costwise is very equivalent to my old setup, is not just on another plane, it’s in another dimension for resolution and musicality. I say that just to make the point that i2s while theoretically better, it has its own limitations. Cable length used to be absolutely critical for it to work well. I used a 6" Cat6 cable back then, with the DAC stacked on top of the audio PC. Maybe it’s different now but just some food for thought. |
@david_ten I imagine it is fairly transparent. However the designers have said they voiced it to be lush. Most reviews also say it is in the warm side. I'm sure it isn't syrupy warm or lush, but I'm trying to avoid as much voicing as possible, and listen to what in the disc as much as possible. Or at least as much as my limited funds can get me. I'm still not opposed to the Terminator, but if I can get more transparency and information retrieval, while not sounding bright or slow, I'll be happier. I really wish someone was in Austin and had a Terminator, so I could hear it for myself. |
I also love mine and see no reason to switch it out for anything else. It just sounds right. I had an April Music CDT100 that sounded great, but was weighted downwards. I also have a Musical Fidelity that sounds very very good, and doesn't do anything wrong, but it lacks the overall life and resolution of the Jay's Audio. I'm looking around at dacs to see what would be a great paring for it. I wish more dacs had the HDMI i2s output, as I have to be able to utilize the transport tot he fullest. I'm thinking about a Rockna Wavedream (expensive) and still haven't completely ruled out the Terminator (better price, but I don't love that it's voiced to be warm and lush, as opposed to simply being as transparent as possible). |
@whart Hey Bill, long time no chat! I am using the latest iteration of the Schiit Yggdrasil. They updated the analog output stage I think about a year ago, all updated units have a "B" to begin their serial number. While I would say it favors tone, texture, and musicality over imaging and spatial cues, it's really not a slouch at the latter either. |
I keep trying to find fault with this player but it's just magical. It's the kind of thing that, when combined with an equal-or-better caliber DAC it can cause you to question just about every audio preconception you've ever held. Like Redbook can't compete with vinyl or "hi-rez." I absolutely beg to differ and it has even further accelerated my CD purchases. What a problem to have :) |
I went with the DH Labs Silver Sonic 1M BNC cable. Found one on the ’bay for $70 and I did a really quick comparison to a Blue Jeans 110-ohm XLR (which is the preferred input on the Yggy) and I prefer the BNC connection slightly. Trust me, I have my eye on the Silverstar but it’s going to be a minute on that. Bought some new tubes for my preamp tonight and I want to address a few power cabling/outlet situations first. |
A quick follow-up. I've listened to another 4 or 5 CDs tonight with everything fully warmed up. This new transport is as shocking to me as my first foray into vinyl was. It is truly special and has caused me to question basically everything I've said over the past 3 years about analog vs digital. Now, don't mistake me - I'm not suggesting it is better than vinyl; I think the mastering decides that. But what I am saying is that on the right shiny plastic discs, this thing gives me absolutely no reason to want for more. Absolutely a good buy. |
I am seriously listening to mine for the first time right now. The first disc I put in was Jeff Beck - Truth, which I listened to from my old player (TASCAM 500b) just a couple of nights ago. The Jay's is a gamechanger. I paid $2000 shipped and I'm planning my next trip to wherever I can get to to pick up more CDs. Thrifts, music stores, don't care. I need to hear more. |
My Jays Audio CDT-2 mk2 arrived today and my initial impressions pretty much mirrors most everyone else here. As most have stated its a gorgeous unit that's built like a tank. Right out of the box it sounds much better than my CEC TLN-5. Bass is tighter, soundstage has opened up more, the air and high end detail is greatly improved with a very relaxed and real sound. It's at least as "analog" sounding as the CEC, probably even more so. It certainly is one heck of a bargain at $2,250. It looks and sounds like a unit costing much more. Thanks for the heads up on it teajay. |
I’ve only used the Theta Digital DSPro Basic IIIA as a DAC. It’s potential is greatly affected by whatever transport feeds it. My original CAL Delta Transport (having a <50 psec jitter output) sounded great with it. My Sonic Frontiers Ultra Jitterbug reclocker (having a reclocked digital stream with <40 psec jitter) or an AE Synchro Mesh OTL reclocker (having presumably 8psec jitter) didn’t really improve the SQ from the Theta DAC using the Delta transport. I tried a NuPrime CDT-8 Pro transport (having 120 psec jitter output) with the Theta DAC. The resultant SQ from the DAC wasn’t better (might have been worse in imaging) than with the Delta transport. I then obtained a Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport to mate with the Theta DAC. 💥BOOM!💥 The Jay’s Audio transport brought out the best SQ from the Theta DAC I’ve ever heard. As most here know, the Theta DAC is an R2R ladder design. I could easily live with the Theta forever. I’m going to try out the Benchmark DAC3 DAC-Pre for reasons partly unrelated to the DAC section. I’ll sort out the SQ of their DAC section when I audition it. But based on the Theta DAC design and its resultant SQ when mated with a high resolution transport, I might be biased towards R2R ladder DACs. |
Since I don't think I really made the point I was driving at when I set out on that post, my goal is to find my favorite recordings in their best form on physical media. And in cases where they are roughly equal, frankly I’d prefer to play the CD to keep wear off the stylus. To me it’s just gratifying to hear digital playback that has reminded me so much of what I love about vinyl. I had a very, very nice digital setup four years ago and it had its good points but it was more about "look what I can do" vs "how does this system make you feel?" If that makes sense. I actually feel some equivalence between the two formats now and that makes me happy because so much of what I’m after either doesn’t exist on vinyl, isn’t affordable on vinyl, or is honestly not so well-produced and translates poorly on vinyl. Hope that makes sense :) |
