Ideas to improve my system

I wrote this seller, his personal nearly (4 months old) new klipsch center

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124782709100?epid=10025586026&hash=item1d0da1096c:g:RLUAAOSwS35g0k9L

he said he did not register the warranty. I asked, and he said if disaster struck, he would cooperate to use the 5 yr warranty he gets

I bought the used Klipsch center and the two small speakers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203529373861?ul_noapp=true

He still has the pair of subs, if anyone is interested, 'contact seller'.

Not sure, perhaps ask him to find their model #.

look at this batch of used Klipsch HT Speakers

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203529373861?hash=item2f634bc8a5:g:BkYAAOSwCSBg9JIN

Sensitivity-Efficiency is volume/power. You get a sense of the PROBABLE amount of attenuation (less or more) you will need when you mix and match.

Frequency response is quite another thing, I suspect your Klipsch Mains will also ’blend’ both volume and frequency characteristics. You don’t want specific frequencies jumping ’out’ or ’in’ from l/c/r. I would try that change FIRST, then go from there.

My separate 2 channel system, ’other end of the room’

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9511

I use Two L-Pads in each speaker (vary attenuation of mid horn to woofer; vary attenuation of tweeter to mid horn. Hard enough, then VERY HARD: I have to very carefully match L to R

so Casandra Wilson’s Voice doesn’t move L or R of Center, or certain Piano/Violin frequencies shift this way or that, that’s a no no. Takes weeks of decisions playing all sorts of music. Ah, when done, awesome. Don’t forget, this is done IN MY LISTENING SPACE, not some factory average design for imagined unknown spaces.

I just made an offer for one of those Klipsch R-34C Center Speakers (used) for myself. It will be too efficient, my DBX Soundfield 100’s are ’only’ 91, so I will likely be cutting the center channel signal output in the AVR. Except, my Mains are near corners, and use special ’crossfire’ angles (like large toe-in), so who knows? Frequency Blend? I can return it, I’ll risk the return shipping cost.

Back to the old big CRT days, I’ve been happy with the little Bose VCS-10 which fits anywhere, including behind a CRT inside a wall unit with receding doors way back when.

I have more room now that I chopped my big wall unit down, put my Monitor on a Glass Shelf on a 7" Riser I built with some of it’s solid cherry wood, the Klipsch fits, right at seated ear height (no rear ports).

back to attenuation: My rear surround speakers are small directional speakers, Paradigm Micro v.3. I still remember the surprise when I first heard them at 6th Ave. Electronics.

https://edsgoodstuff.com/edscart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7559

laying on their backs, firing up, using the 6" wide space between the back of the sofa and wall behind like a horn, so their efficiency/output is what it is, then attenuated in the AVR. (I stuffed some foam in their tiny rear ports).

All these years I just do the volume adjustments in the AVR, done, good enough, no room correction like you do. I reset occasionally, do the basics, I forget all the damn options, just adjust vol then use either Direct; 5.1 or 2 channel. I occasionally find forced 2 channel sounds better, there's a lot of crap mixes out there, and who knows what studios/cable companies are 'thrilling' us with.

My Single Sub, 1,000 watt Velodyne, is adjacent to me (see photo), fires facing the front opposite, crossover and volume for my viewing spot. Off for Direct 2 channel or forced 2 channel, the DBX have 12" woofers, plenty except Jurrasic Park, Black Hawk Down.
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I hope you have discovered this movie, Domino, with an awesome kick-arse sound track.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0421054/

I’d get an SVS SB1000 Pro sub for $500 and a Yamaha RX-A780 AVR from Accessories4less.com for $600, and for only $1100 you’ll have a great sounding home theater.  The AVR has front L/R preouts so I’d spend all the rest to get the best integrated stereo amp you can that will improve your 2-channel experience exponentially and help you get the most out of your nice Hereseys.  Best of luck. 

Thanks elliottbnewcombjr2! Yea the AVR sets the non-Hersey speakers +6db. It definitely weird to have that much of a difference, but I’m a little unclear on exactly what issues that causes tho from an audio quality perspective. For correcting the sensitivity mismatch, could I get around that problem somewhat by having a separate power amp for the Hersey? Even if I replaced the center, my surrounds would still have the same problem. Right now they are a slightly bigger of a mismatch at 6.5db

Bass wise, things seem fine? I’d would love to try out a sub in the system and really experience the difference tho. It is likely that to knotscott’s point, it may just make the rest of the speakers sound a bit better.

TT/Phono/Cartridge. Last! Next Year!

Do you NEED more Bass? 

WANTING more bass seems obvious to all, but you know what you are getting now.

When you consider new AVR and New Integrated 'Front Music System', consider if 'more bass' will be for

AVR use only, i.e. single Sub adding Dinosaur Stomps,

OR,

Extended Front Stereo Bass (two front facing subs, near the mains, always on. 

I think your Klipsch and B&W center probably sound good together,

 however,

the sensitivity mismatch probably needs a somewhat large adjustment in the AVR.

for that reason, I would start by changing to a Klipsch Center with matching sensitivity, Klipsch can advise you, there seems to be a sale going on. 

I suggest this one, it's ports face forward

https://www.klipsch.com/products/r-34c-center-speaker

A powered sub would be a nice addition, especially for HT. Even a fairly modest sub can work well. Most have a high pass filter to relieve your main speakers from deep bass duties, which many claim will clean up the sound of mains.

Then I’d look to upgrade your main amp/preamp.  Further down the road after an amp, I'd consider a cartridge upgrade...especially if the new amp has an improved phono stage.  

Current direction I'm leaning:

Yamaha RX-A6A using the balanced front pre-out to connect to a Zen Decware  (https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKCS.html) powering the Hersey IV

I believe the pre-outs are still corrected with dirac but I'm not 100% sure. The downside of the Zen is that it would not automatically turn on when my tv turns on. Are there others that I am missing?

The total cost there is around 4k.

This discussion has been super helpful!

I’m generally leaning in the separates or ht bypass direction. I like that I could get an amp that matches well with the Hersey as well.

For the separates approach it seems like the Anthem AVM 70 + Anthem MCA 525 Gen 2 (total is about 7500) would be a dream setup. That is a little out of my budget and I just am not as comfortable with the used market right now. Other options seem to be roughly in that ballpark. It seems folks use the budget-ish 5-7 channel amps (like the Outlaw MODEL 5000X) just for surrounds and front…meaning I would need 3 total components (processor and 2 amps which would basically erase the cost savings).

The HT BYPASS approach, I would need to upgrade the AVR (you are correct elliottbnewcombjr) but I could do that relatively affordably - it looks like the Yamaha RX-A6A has a great DAC, is $2,100 and has HT BYPASS. I could then get a relatively low powered 2ch amp that would work with the Hersey IV for ~1000-2000.

If I wanted to have some room correction on the 2 channel setup (debatable I know), can you keep room correction from the AVR on while using HT BYPASS? I imagine I would create a 2 channel profile with the AVR based on powering 2 speakers via the HT BYPASS, but my understanding is the HT BYPASS…bypasses the room correction/equalization? Or would I need to get a 2 channel amp that has some built in room correction?

Thanks!

I agree, by all means keep an AVR and surround speakers for any Video based program.

Then improve it for everything: Movies; Video/Music Programs; or Music only (via Web, Cable, Media) via a separate ’FRONT STEREO SYSTEM’

You need

1. FSS. ’Front Stereo System’ with ’HT Bypass Input’ to receive the AVR’s line level Front Signals.

2. AVR with ’Pre-Out’ for the AVR’s Front Channel line level signals to be sent out to a separate ’Front Stereo System’.

FSS Always drives the Front Speakers. AVR always drives center and all surround channels.

I had it backwards, it became very clear here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/avr-internal-2-channel-audio-mode-or-ht-bypass-external-equip...

Critically: AVR ON, it controls the Volume including the Front Volume the FSS is amplifying.

Unfortunately, your Sony AVR does not have ’Pre-Out’, fortunately many do, and HT Bypass is gaining understanding.

There is some yap about any chosen AVR’s pre-out signal strength

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/receiver-brands-with-the-best-preouts.3045816/

Anyway, think LONG Now, think best 2 channel sound, then figure out how to use that for your HT Front.

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Bass, Subs: improved bass, make sure it is part of the Front Stereo System IF you want extended bass all the time, even when AVR is off, (large mains, or stereo pair of front firing subs adjacent to smaller mains)

or part of AVR Only, i.e. Single Sub movies only, Dinosaur Stomps ....

I would get the sub - it really does make for a huge improvement with movies. I have the KC62 and it's good, but it's part of a 2 channel rig with no tv - if i were doing a home theater setup i'd probably look for something that can move more air. the kc62's form factor is great but depending on the size of your room it might not do it for you. If you have the space, i'd try a Rel t/9 or something along those lines.

I agree with spenav, upgrade the receiver to separates, even if you stay with 5.1 - I long ago upgraded a highly rated Denon AVR with Mcintosh 5.1 separates and the difference was amazing (although I am now back to 2 channel). Going with a better/newer receiver would give a small lift, but probably not enough to wow you. Once you upgrade the electronics, then add the sub. Of course you could always replace and upgrade the girlfriend instead........

Upgrading the receiver with a pre/processor and separate amp would be a costly but worthy upgrade.  You could even select a good stereo amp just for the front speakers and multichannel amp for surround sound. If you are comfortable with the used market, you can do it with a little over 5k. Later, you can even add a separate DAC.  Good luck.