I have a lack of depth in "soundstage".

Question for you Flickkit:

How close are your speakers to the back wall?

What type of room conditioning are you using?
How about brands of after market power cords, and methods of power conditioning?

SPeaker placement my friend...at least 3-4 ft. from back wall....

I go to the symphony regularly and sit 8th row center. Live music actually has very little depth. It is mostly an audiophile thing (that I like.)

That said, not changing your equipment, I agree with Lak that the room and speaker placement are where I would start.

Richard

Live music has very little depth? I don't understand that at all. At the symphony hall I hear the violins in front with woodwinds behind them and horns behind that, that is the way it sounds to me and that is how I would define depth. I do think it's very important in live music as well as on a stereo system. Something is wrong if you aren't gettting a sence of depth on your system or in concert. I would also agree that the speaker placement would be the first place to look. Also if you have a TV or large object between your speakers that can severely impare your systems ability to portray depth.

Do you have the means to place your speakers across a corner of the room, I heard a system configured in this manner(using Proac 1SC speakers) and it gave the impression of sounds 30-40 feet behind the speakers(no exaggeration!)
It also seemed to improve imaging and bass response!

Live music is very dependent on the venue. As you all know, some halls are better than others. Where you sit will have some influence as well.

Cabling can make a big difference in soundstaging I've found. Especially speaker cable. But more than that the speaker positioning as the folks above have pointed out. If you have your TV between your speakers as I do then try moving it a foot or two behind the front plane of you speakers as I have. Makes a big difference.

"Soundstage"...yeah, right...we all know what you're talking about. I got an email the other day that might help you:

Stop buying pumps and doing useless exercises!
These methods will not work in a million years..

Our pills or patches will do all the work for you. Plus to top it off, if you are not
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If you want more information you can contact Elizabeth Delgado....or Sandra Smart, or Deborah H. Potts, or maybe Son Vega...or if none of them get back to you Opal Ziegler might...or Ada Santiago, or even Imogene Page. They all sent the same email to me.....that was yesterday. If none of those work ping me off the list and I'll have about twenty or thirty more names for you by tommorrow!! I gotta stop buying stuff online!

Marco

your b&w's need more power. the audio note is a great amp, but is a better match with a more sensitive speaker. the b&w's would open up big time(front to back)with a tube integrated from arc or cj.....the audio note would match up better with speakers such as the meadowlarks,etc. this is a tough choice, but either way the improvements would be dramatic.

The biggest impact on soundstage is speaker placement. Speakers which are placed to close to the wall will possess increased bass, but they will surrender soundstage. Moving the speakers out from the wall will benefit soundstage depth but there will be give-and-take with your bass response.

A couple of things which might be of benefit are Robert Harley's book "The Complete Guide to Highend Audio," Laura Deerborn's book "Good Sound," or you might try http://www.rivesaudio.com

All three will deals with your questions from one angle or another.

1. speaker placement
2. amp/speaker match

The three most important factors in getting great sound:
1. speaker placement
2. speaker placement
3. speaker placement

How to make a $10,000 pair of speakers sound awful :
poor placement

How to make a $200 monitor sound OUTSTANDING :
excellent speaker placement

***You MUST pay your dues and exhaustively experiment with placement; every room is different, every system different.
Try to methodically change, and keep track of, speaker placement until you hit the "magic spot". When you hit it, you'll know it. It will all be there, all snap into place.
But it doesn't come free...you've gotta earn it.
You must be investigative, aware that small changes can
possibly make a big difference.
Other factors are important....but will do you little good
without to-a-quarter-of-an-inch precise placement. You can
change amps and cables forever and ever, and not get it right until you have your speakers placed correctly in YOUR
room. Hey, I learned the hard way...can you say Martin-Logans choked by poor room placement?
My two cents worth based on experience.
Good luck.

Distance to the back wall is part of the solution. You should also experiment - first start out by:

- Place the left and right speaker the same distance from the side walls

- Place the speakers from each other the same distance as your listening position to the speakers

- Make sure that the distance to the side walls are greater than the distance from the back wall, i.e. better to have the speakers 2 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from the sides rather than 3 feet back wall/3 feet side. This should determine the furthest distance out from the back wall

Bass sounds better closer to the back wall. As far as side distance because of a door my left speaker is 6 feet away from the side wall and the right is 3 feet from the side. Ive experimented a little with placement and have had some positive results. Unfortunatly the best so far dosnt sit well with my significant other. I ran a dedicated line from my breaker box to the wall socket, this made a big difference in all aspects. I am using no power conditioning of any kind. Allthough I did get rid of the $6.99 surge protector. again a big improvment. My speaker cables arent really cables but 12g "Monster" wire. Speakers are bi-wired. I tried some (forget the brand) bi-wire silver core wires. The biggest difference was symphony instruments appearing where they wernt before! These wires were on loan. So I'm in the market for some.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Flickkit-
I have the Cdm1 nt too, and I have had similar observations as yours. The Cdms offered better bass close to the back wall. At the same time, the soundstage seemed to disappear, at least in this room. Two things I tried helped considerably improve soundstage- placing the cdms out into the room, and getting better stands. A solid stand can make a big difference to the cdms. I think the cdms are finicky about placement, so I found that looking to the environment I placed the cdms in offered some clues about their behavior. I think they are wonderful speakers, and though I was occationally frustrated in my effort to place them in the most effective way I am very pleased with the result.

- Good stands and firm placement is crucial for soundstage depth and bass response.

- Speaker placement sometimes brings dramatic improvements: Try different distances from wall; between each loudspeaker; and (this sometimes does the trick on spacial image) close progressively the angle of the speakers, facing the tweeter to you. Height of stand is important too, so that the tweeter is at your ears height.

- Your amplifier/speaker match is not the best. If you hear mostly jazz, classic music, etc, you should get rid of the B&W. One possible magic combination is Oto SE with Monitor Audio Studio 6 monitors. In jazz beats systems costing 5 times more. These speakers are no longer sold - you must buy them used, and they should cost around $600. If you prefer mostly rock, you should sell both. If you hear all types of music, a good investment would be The B&W 805 Signature for now, and a Pathos Acoustics Twin Towers later.

Kind regards

General Question? If a speaker is "good" wont it reproduce all kinds of music? If a speaker (or any componant for that matter) works well playing jazz but not clasical doesnt that mean its somehow not doing its job well?

Thanks for the imput

Components are designed for certain functions, including speakers - thats why matching your needs to the components is so important. Things that effect choice of speakers: size of room, loudness required, amount of bass needed, amount of transparency required for imaging, tonal balance perferred, and the list goes on and on..............Thats why its a hobby, it isn't simply plug and play. There are speakers that do it all well - and they cost very, very, big bucks. The challenge is to find a compromise that works for you.

Room acoustics and speaker placement are huge. Acoustic treatment is a bargain for the sound improvement gained. No doubt about it. It's amazing room treatment almost seems like an obscure subject but if you want the best your system is capable of that's the way to get it. Do some research on room acoustics and you'll be glad you did.

Speaker placement!