Norman I don't plan on selling the 8. They are hard to come by and built to the hilt. I doubt it will sound near as well as the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium integrated I have but I am going to have fun with it I can tell you that for sure. I have never seen in person a 9090db but would love to one day. Maybe I will also try a lower wattage Pioneer SX series as they are affordable. |
About 2 years ago I picked up a used pair of Ohm Walsh Two loudspeakers from a fellow member here, driving 250 miles to Massachusetts to pick them up. They were quite the elusive thing in my younger days, so were the Dahlquist DQ-10s.
Shortly after having the Ohms I discovered that they were still in business, in Brooklyn yet, still making new and offering upgrades/repairs for their older models. And not just a few older ones - virtually everything they ever made. And they still do.
John upgraded my Twos for $1200 - I bought them for $400 - and it was worth it. Every penny. My nephew now has them because I moved from that system...like the idiot I am! |
samzx12,
I would imagine that the Prima Luna is a very different presentation. Kinda like when I was running levinson ml2's. They could do a string quartet like knowing I've ever heard before. Jazz trios were wonderful. Complex classical and hard rock, well not so much.
Keep in in mind that I've never heard the Prima. I could be completely off base. |
Oblgny,
Great story on the Ohm Walsh. I heard them once when I was 16 or 17. They were amazing and could really take a lot of power. I think they were being driven by the Phase Linear 350. Those were the early models that didn't have any high end driver support. They were completely full range. They were also way out of my price range.
You mentioned the Dalquist Dq 10. That is still an excellent sounding speaker. I could live with a pair of those, but they are so hard to come by in good condition.
If if only we had 2020 hindsight. There are so many things that slipped through our hands. Thankfully we still have some of them.
Norman |
I'm currently using an Accuphase E-303 integrated amp and T-103 tuner. Both are outstanding, and easily stand up to many newer and even contemporary models. |
I just don't see how a receiver can compete with a separate amp and preamp of high quality. Receivers were meant to do everything well and pack so much into one box. They aren't going to have the drive and punch of a separate amp and preamp when driving difficult loads. I know we are talking about cream of the crop receivers but still in comparison to higher end separates that are able to really drive power hungry speakers I don't see how they can? However, I didn't buy my receivers to compete with higher end separates but I know they still sound awesome and will enjoy them for years (hopefully) :) |
whipsaw,
Kensonic! I love Accuphase gear. When it first became available they directly compared it the build quality of McIntosh when it was reviewed.
I agree with you 100%. They leave very little to improve upon.
Norman |
Thanks Norman.
Luxman was also considered to by high-class from that period in Japan, and I have owned one of their very good receivers from the '70s. But this Accuphase integrated amp is outstanding!
I also had it serviced and re-capped, which does makes an important difference with 40+ year-old gear.
What's interesting is that the '70s was a period in which Japan was out to prove itself on a world stage, and not only with audio. Seiko had begun to do so with watches in the '60s, and of course the major Japanese car companies were also beginning their ascent in foreign markets.
Tony
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I wonder if one of the reasons older gear can really shine today is due to the vast improvements in cables & interconnects. Those allow there true performance to come through. Thoughts? |
Boxer12,
Not a fan of $$$$$ interconnects and cables. I found that as once common features as 'tone controls' fell out of favor with the high end community (don't get me started), that there was a need to adjust tones on certain music playback. I readily here differences in cables, but to me they are silly. My audio buddies snap em up and explain how their is more air, more highs, or now they have a complete full bottom end. When I am playing a recording that needs more highs I walk over to my preamp and adjust the treble.
The late great genius James Bongiorno once said that he will design a preamp without tone controls when someone showed him a 'flat' room. I agree.
Having extensive studio experience I can say without question that 99% of all of our recorded music has had some type of equaliztion adjustment during the recording process. That and I don't know of any recording studios that use expensive esoteric cables in the recording loop. None.
To me cables are used as today's tone controls. I have a few expensive cables that I purchased over the years. They are in a drawer with my unused audio accessories. I keep them on hand to demonstrate how they emulate my preamps tone controls ( though no where as effectively). I know, I'm gonna hear it from everyone who has their favorite cable in use. My advise, use a preamp with tone controls and put your cable dollars into records, tapes or whatever.
Norman |
Norman,
I respect your opinion. In my case, I haven't changed cables to adjust treble or bass, but to add additional 3D realism & space between the instruments. They do that too. |
In my business we often taste wine in a blind format so as to remove the possibility of tainting our assessments beforehand by knowing which producer's are in the lineup. As often we do not disclose what country or region where the wines are from.
While adopting the same format for comparing receivers to separates is a bit more labor intensive given the size and weight of the equipment, I can relate that I have done so in the past - which is why this 40+ year old receiver will never leave my house.
I could tell the sonic differences between my separates and the receiver, but I could not find fault in either - nor could I swapping out current model stuff versus current model stuff.
Nostalgia plays a very large role in my attachment to the Pioneer; I worked and saved and forsook other earthly delights to attain it way back when, and I just can't let it go unappreciated. It still sounds good and I currently have "better" equipment to weigh my opinion against. Both th deserve a place in my home.
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Oblgny,
I agree with you. Nostalgia does play a role. Had some friends over a few weeks ago and one walked up to the 9090db and just stared at it. He had always wanted one when he was a teenager. When I look at it I remember very well having to save and save (layaway actually) to buy it.
The differnces that I hear in the vintage gear are just some how more pleasant to me. For some reason I love what I hear and I don't find myself analyzing the gear the way I do when I'm swapping out amps and preamps.
The bottom line is, that whatever draws you in, recreates that magic that makes listening so enjoyable is what you should be listening too regardless of others opinions.
Norman |
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Because we listen to our vintage stuff with younger ears! |
Does that mean we are OLD lol? |
I think so. =)
Remember. "old is the new young"
At least that's the way I figure it. |
While I don't exactly squander my current earnings on the good gear that I have, remembering how we got that first piece of "hifi" gear does prejudice our opinions when comparing old and new. I waited tables one summer, all summer long, extra shifts throughout to get into this stuff. I think my first speakers were Acoustic Research "bookshelves" - rather large for bookshelves, each with two 8" woofers with the tweeter centered between them? The woofers were paper, blue in color. I forget the model.
Somewhere down the line I purchased a Yamaha Natural Sound integrated along with a pair of Bozak bookshelves - all I remember about the Bozaks is that they had aluminum woofers. Anyone out there who might remember those give a shout!
Right now I've boxed up a less than one year old Macintosh Mc275 Mark VI amp for sale, pulling out my old Pioneer SX during the interim.
If I closed my eyes and listened I would be hard pressed to guess that its 40+ years old. Should I find a suitable amp to replace the MC275 I am going to look to have the SX receiver's cabinet redone. Anyone out there know of a place to get that accomplished? In or around NY? This receiver will outlive me and I want it to look its best!
Fun discussion!
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oblgny,
Your story sounds familiar. I think I lived it!
Now inserting my Sansui receivers back into my system has rewarded me with the most fun I've had listening in years!
My 9090DB is being tuned up, and it's going back into my main system.
I did have an SX 1050 and an SX 1250 for a while. You don't seem to be missing your Mac, and I am not surprised. I think the Pioneer build quality is first rate, they were nice to look at and sound wonderful.
Norman
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One of the most musical systems I've ever heard consisted of a Thorens TD160 table, Mac C22 preamp, Marantz 8B power amp and KEF Calinda loudspeakers. Absolutely wonderful! I think the KEF's were the most important part of it. If you can find 'em, they'll run you about $400/pair. |
Well there is another "kick me" moment. In the 70's (before I got into tubes) I could have picked up a sweet pair of Marantz mono blocks for $400 at a local stereo shop. I didn't. Fifteen years later when I got into tubes, they were way over my budget. Looks like they're even higher now :-(... |
russbutton,
I've owned quite a bit of Mac gear. Liked all of it, but somehow always ended up trading it in or selling it off. The marantz 8 is supposed to be a gem but I've ever heard one. The Mac C22 is very highly regarded. Thinking about it, all my Mac gear was solid state. Maybe there is more magic in tubes? =)
Norman
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boxer12,
Here locally this past summer, a neighbor sold his well worn marantz 8's for $5500.00 I think he has them listed for one day.
Not to feel bad though, as we have all lived through those "kick me" moments. =) |
I've had a Mc 2100 solid state, a Mc C28 solid state pre-amp, the newest receiver the MAC6700 solid state, and now the MC275 Mark 6 tube amp...which is now up for sale here.
McIntosh is probably THE most popular "high end" equipment sold here and elsewhere. I like their stuff, but I like other stuff better?
Norman - "maybe there is more magic in tubes?"
Esthetically a very big yes. Very cool to look at the tubes glowing whilst listening to music. In the same vein I offer that looking at the Sansui, the Marantz, or the Pioneers provide the same esthetic enjoyment. These pieces were built to last, look cool as hell, and sound great. |
Just received my Sansui 9090DB back from servicing (Deltronics). Guru of all things audio 'Mike', gave the old girl a clean bill of health. Repairs needed? Zero. All functions exceeding spec. Not bad for a 39 year old receiver. =)
He did have to clean the balance pot however.
Back in in the system and sounding wonderful.
Norman
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Awesome Norman. Now you know it's healthy and ready for some enjoyable listening sessions. |
Sam,
Yes, and I have really been enjoying it. I am going to keep two preamps and one power amp. Everything else is about gone now, but there are just certain pieces that you can't part with. =)
Norman |
