Every source I was ever able to locate suggested 1.5 to 2.0 gm for the Grace Ruby, and both of mine, one re-tipped by SS and the other still with its original elliptical, track best at about 1.6gm. So, I cannot imagine that this model would track well at 0.5gm, no matter what one may find on VE, which can at times be a cesspool of erroneous information. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But here we are lost in our own discussion of cartridges that the OP does not own and did not ask about. Such is the way of Analog, Grasshoppers.
24 responses Add your response
As i can see in the japanese brochure linked by Marin, the most advanced stylus profile in Grace F-8 series and later in Grace F-9 series is F-8F and F-9F stylus profile (Navy Color). Always the most expensive and hard to find nowadays. I wonder why nobody tried and reported about it in "MM thread". I have great result using Grace cartridges on Luxman TA-1 tonearm made by Misco Seiki for Luxman. The build quality of this arm is superb and much better that Black Widow tonearm. P.S. Raul, i have not tried 0,5g tracking force with my Grace carts, i think it's too low. I have never use less than 1g. The lowest tracking force i have ever used was between 1g - 1,25g with my Technics EPC 100Cmk3 and 205Cmk4 cartridges. |
The F9 is a great cartridge based on the F8 actually, improved and modified to work on a much wider variety of arms. That said, the F8 is a fantastic cartridge in its own right, and the better choice if installing on the above mentioned Black Widow or Grace arms due to its more suitable compliance. The F8-C especially so, and in attempting to procure one ended up with the L'10 instead and now a happy camper. There's something to be said for using the cartridge actually designed to go on the arm you're using, and both designed and manufactured by the same company. I can say it was a real ear opener lol. Martin |
The Grace f8-L’10 is also rated for .5 - 2.5g, along with other f8 carts. Below is a link to a Japanese sales brochure with the numbers clearly visible. This does not mean it’s the recommended VTF, only it’s possible range. In the owners manual it states the .5g is for perfectly flat discs, and the recommended setting is 1.5g. The f8-c is rated .5 - 1.5 with a recommended 1.2g These carts were of course designed for arms like the Grace G707 and Infinity Black Widow, and why I'm currently using one. Martin https://www.google.com/search?q=grace+f8-c&client=ms-android-metropcs-us&prmd=vsin&sourc... |
Hi Raul, You obviously have memory problems. This is called ''amnesia''. In the Lyra thread you agreed with stringreen statement: ''I always set my VTF to the manufacturer recommendation''. Your comment was: ''You are absolutely right'' and added that ''ignorance level is always the name of the game''. By those ''ignorant'' you mean those who desagree with this ''rule'' or dogma. However in this thread you changed the issue talking about VTF RANGE instead of recommended VTF. As we can see you skipped 0,25 g by Grace and probably started with 0,5; then 0,6; then 0, 7, etc . grams. But why? 0,25 is also recommended VTF. That is the problem with you. You have no idea what you stated in your previous post. I already addressed chakster's dilemma with ''0,5- 2 g'' by his Grace as well my own between 1,5-2.5 g. recommended VTF's which are in my opinion worthless. |
Dear @mofimadness : You are right, no one Grace series 9 is for 0.5grs. There is a cartridge where the manufacturer VTF range is: 0.25 to 1.25 grs and is the Empire 4000D3. I never tested at 0.25grs but I did it at 0.5grs and performs good. In the same Empire series the D2 starts at 0.5grs. Btw, @chakster , could you tell us how good performs your Grace at 0.5 grs. against higher VTF values? Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Recommended VTF again. It is not my intenion to cotradict eihter Stringreen nor Raul, but I think that the truth is more important than prejudice. When Keynes was asked by his colleagues what will happen on the long run with his recommendation to stimulate demand by the governement(s) his answer was ''on the long we all will be dead''. Well I am not sure if + 30 years imply ''long run'' but the most of us own (MM) carts which are older than 30 years. The most of us, except Raul, do believe that such carts as ''low riders exist''. Are the recommended VTF's still usable for those low riders? If one wants the body of his cart on the record instead of the stylus one can try . But the most will try such a VTF by which, if possible, the body will not touch the record. The reason why there are low riders is the softening of the so called ''rubber ring'' which determine compliance as well the VTF. The opposite also happens. This rubber ring can dry out as function of time while no VTF of any kind will help. To believe in recommended VTF is to believe that manufacturers use invariabe suspension not effected by function of time. This imply that they are clairvoyant because they know what will happen , uh, on the ''long run''. In such (parallel?) universe there are no low riders, no defective suspensions and no need to ever change the mentioned ''rubber ring''. In my case which does not prove anything but may suggest something Axel changed this rubber ring by at least 6 of my carts. He told me that in particular those EMT's and ZYX have suspension problems. My relative new ZYX Airy 3 just got a new suspension . Because the body of this cart is made from plastic which is glued together Axel needed to cut the place where the cover plate is usualy situated to get access to the inside of the cart. So this problem ''may'' exist by old as well (relative) new carts.
|
I doubt that it still has the original stylus on it. I bet it’s been replaced. I would try 1.4 grams. That’s a good compromise. If you don’t mind spending $50, order a stylus from Ed Saunders. I’m using one on my V15 Type III and it’s stellar. If you ever upgrade to a more expensive table and arm, keep the V15 II and buy a Jico neoSAS/R stylus for it. Now that’s heaven! http://www.edsaunders.com/shurestylus.htm https://www.jico-stylus.com/neosasnews.php |
| Post removed |
Thank you so much for all those responded - you guys are a great source of intelligent info! I don't know much about cartridges as you must have guessed. I bought the Denon TT used and the guy said the cartridge is Shure V type that is pretty old design. I don't have manufacturer's recommendation so I will just leave it at 1.7 grams then - it sounded better than .5 grams. |
@chakster...there are actually (2) pdf’s on Vinyl Engine. The first one, (Farsch) says 1.2 grams across the board, except for the F9P which is 2.5 grams. The second pdf, (Alec124c41) shows the .5 to 2.0 range. http://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/f9.shtml I have the actual owners manual from the F9E cartridge box and it says 1.2 grams, no range. I also just checked my dealer binder for Grace and it also says 1.2 grams. I have a pdf of the actual owners manual I can send. Not sure when Grace changed the info, but again, .5 grams is way loo light for the F9 series of carts. |
Hear we go again.....a cartridge is designed with the suspension, magnets, coils, et al being in a specific place for all to for these disparate parts to work at their best places and values to do their best work. There is one and only one vtf that brings all of this together... The cartridge designed will give a range saying that no damage to the cartridge will result, or that there will be some tracking of the record at these extremes, however, the cartridge works best at the designers published optimal vtf. I am a pro musician, and have always sought to apply standards to all I have/do. I don't play Mozart in the style of Mahler, and don't track a cartridge at some quasi optimal vtf. |
stringreen, You are repeating your own gospel. You don't believe in any standard whatever and you have your own opinion about any adjustment issue. Courious then that you do believe in recommended VTF by the manufacturer. We have seen chakster specification of the recommended VTF of 0,5 -2 g for Grace F9 cartridges. I have seen many with 1,5-2,5g. Does your method imply that you start with, say, 1,5 g, then with 1,6 g, then with 1,7, etc., till 2,5 g.? Those are after all recommended VTF's by the manufacturer. |
You may never seen Grace F9 cartridges (F-9F, F-9L, F-9U, F-9D) tracking force range is 0.5 - 2g. I agree that 0.5 is too low, i would say 1g minimum.I was a Grace dealer for many years and have owned several of the Grace cartridges, (actually I currently have a couple of F9E carts). I have also setup MANY Grace carts through the years. According to the F9 series manual which I just looked at, Grace doesn't give a range of tracking force, they recommend 1.2 grams. So the .5 grams is not with a Grace F9 series cart...sorry. |
What cartridge do you have? Most carts will have a "range" of tracking force. I have always tracked most carts towards the higher end of that range. I have setup hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of turntables and have never seen a cart that tracks at .5 grams. I agree you can do a lot of damage tracking too low. |
