Steve N. Thank you very much for testing the cables and posting those new data. It seems the spectral plots may be more useful than the jitter distribution (which looked amazingly similar) when trying to correlate with listening impressions. It would be interesting to know whether there are specific attributes in the spectra besides total jitter that correlate with specific qualities; i.e. wide bass vs natural attack and decay of chimes, bells, imaging, etc. All very interesting if one was designing cables but far outside my area of expertise. Thanks again for posting the comparisons with your cables. I apologize to the OP for straying from the original question posed concerning transports! Joe |
Steve,
Yes, it was within the 2 week period. It took about 45 days for you to finally grant me the pleasure of your refund.
It also took 2 months for you to make the unit because you said you don’t have much spare time to produce the lower end of your products and that you would not be rushed by anyone.
Again, I hope you have changed your attitude with dealing with customers. However, I for one would NEVER try one of your products again based on my experience with you!
ozzy |
Just saw this post and thought I would give my impression on the service I received from Empirical Audio with no prompting from Steve. I too tried the upgraded SM with the upgraded PS and it really transformed my Modwright Marantz SA 8005 CD Player across the board but didn't work out using a dedicated Dac.
My unit was received within a week of ordering and the refund was accomplished within 24-48 hrs from the arrival of the unit back to Steve. A positive experience for me.
Wig
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@ozzy
Very interesting. I find that 99% of the comments on Agon by Steve seem to be self-serving. The comments are always ultimately designed to promote his products in some way. For example, Steve maintains that no DAC maker has addressed incoming jitter problems fully - yet he sells products that claim to do exactly that. (Interesting that he is the ONLY person to have solved this common and well recognized problem) On the hand, I have done extensive research and maintain that certain highly reputable DAC makers have implemented highly robust methods to reject the ubiquitous incoming interface jitter.... |
wig, Thank you for your reply. Perhaps you got one from stock or maybe it was a returned item? I was not so lucky. I stated previously it took 2 months, it was actually closer to 3. And I hate it when you have to pay for an item and keep waiting and waiting for shipment. Yes, I kept emailing him about my order, that is when he commented that his life activities are so busy and important that he won’t be rushed by anyone. As I said before, perhaps the owner has started to treat customers with more respect. That’s a good thing. sardone, I concur. The better the Dac the less important these add on devices are. I did however enjoy the Mutec USB+ unit. https://www.mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.phpozzy |
Thanks everyone for the various answers to my original question. Seems like we've gotten off topic, though.
Indeed @audioengr you don't need to sell something with every one of your posts.
Here's a related question I have: What does jitter sound like? What is the actual auditory result?
Thanks! |
leemaze,
Your right sorry.
I don’t know what jitter sounds like. But with its reduction/elimination the music sounds purer less digital sounding.
ozzy |
It would be interesting to know whether there are specific attributes in the spectra besides total jitter that correlate with specific qualities; i.e. wide bass vs natural attack and decay of chimes, bells, imaging, etc. The spectra in this particular plot is only jitter amounts at different frequencies. There is very little jitter below 600kHz in any of the plots. Unfortunately, my tool does not allow me to blow up or zoom in on that section of frequencies. Correlation is very difficult. At least there are some differences there. Steve N Empirical Audio |
What does jitter sound like? What is the actual auditory result?
There are several attributes, including: 1) unfocused instruments and vocalists - wider than natural would be 2) "fill", or echoes between instruments that is not actually present in the recording - some mistake this for ambience or "air" 3) a harder, more brittle sound that tends to be fatiguing over the long term 4) vocalists "S" sounds too hissy to be live 5) inability to distinguish the size and depth of the venue of the recording 6) halos around the instruments and vocalists As for selling, I look at it like helping people understand and I also problem-solve. I also feel it is my job to dispel misinformation for my industry. I don't always recommend my own products, unless I know they are the best solution. I also recommend other products. Just read all of my posts on all of the forums. I spend a lot of time online helping, and as much as I like helping people, I also desire something in return. The alternative is to give thousands each month to advertising and pass this cost on to my customers. Do you really want to pay for advertising? I don't. Steve N. Empirical Audio
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As for the timing of my product production, you need to understand that I wear a lot of hats. I am essentially a one-man show here. Because of this, my customers deal directly with me and I help them on an ongoing basis. I also offer upgrades to most of my products over time, so they are not obsoleted. My extended family sometimes interferes with my work. Most of 2015 I was in another state remodeling my mother-in-laws house. This was the timeframe of ozzys order, the end of 2015. I had a lot of catch-up to do after 9 months away from the business. I build everything to order, but I have boards in stock. If I have a lot of orders backlogged, they are processed in order and this can cause wait-times for some customers. If you ask about the lead-time, I will give you an honest prediction. The majority of my customers are wiling to wait when I have a big backlog because my products are unique in the industry. If you order a Ferrari, you will wait 2 years. I recently received new speakers myself that I had on order for 3.5 years. I waited 3.5 years for these. I have them now and I'm glad I waited. Sometimes the best things in life take time. I have patience. It's a good virtue to have. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Transports are NOT created equal due to differences in quality of the clocking, power supplies, and support circuitry.
-------> there are BIG differences in SQ amongst different transports
1. DEDICATED SimAudio CDP: excellent, clean clear dynamic sound with punch, fully fleshed out timbres/tones
2. DEDICATED Bel Canto CDT3: similar to the Sim above, but the sound is more like the Bel Canto house sound: clean and clear but slightly warm though highly resolving. just as dynamic as the Sim, but in a different way.
3. NON-DEDICATED Oppo 95: is the jack of all trades for $1000. IOWs, the transport electronics, power supply, clocks are much inferior to the Sim and Bel Canto above, who have DEDICATED electronics to do 1-2 things very well, rather than do several things .... mediocre like the Oppo.
I have owned all these transports, fyi |
Transports are NOT created equal due to differences in quality of the clocking, power supplies, and support circuitry.
-------> there are BIG differences in SQ amongst different transports No argument here. The thing that makes all transports equal is a good reclocker added to the transport. The things that make the jitter different from all of these transports is differences in the oscillators, power supplies, power delivery, implementation and design. It's the jitter that is different for these reasons. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
audioengr, Steve,
First off waiting 3.5 years for speakers is ridiculous and I don’t believe you.
Secondly, I read what you just posted and that is still no excuse for ignoring customers emails, phone calls and all the while you took my money up front with no means of communications for months. When I was finally able to talk to you, you were very RUDE like you had no time to deal with the little people.
Again I was hoping you have overcome those issues and now provide better customer service than you did for me. But, it looks like you still won’t accept your previous poor customer service, in your mind the customer is at fault.
Anyhow, you know how I feel and I hope others who deal with you do so with some skepticism.
and lets get back to the OP questions.
Transports IMHO are advantages because they specialize in one thing, sort of like having separate components instead of using a intergraded unit. With separation comes better power supply, less jitter, better isolation etc.
leemaze,
Again sorry I high jacked your posting.
ozzy |
Actually a neglected part of the audio chain between Syncromesh and DAC is the quality of cable you use. Firstly - always go for BNC. This is unequivocally a superior connector,
A friend brought around a Shunyata BNC 75 ohm BNC SIGMA. Now this is a very expensive BNC - $2500 USD.
I have to say that the syncro mesh performance has jumped up to a staggering level. The added dimension has a nuance that is hard to explain – truly off the charts. Goes to show how good your unit is. The SIGMA BNC brings additional detail and layers that I have seldom heard on any rig any price. I have a lessloss Cmark power cable (new Litz wire config) feeding a Sbooster which has a Furutech NCF riser EMF/dampening system supporting the SM. Feeder is an Argento Serenity Reference silver SPDIF cable. Youtube HD material rivals my NAGRA CD player now by a comfortable margin.
I haven't tried Steve's reference cable nor the Hynes Dynamo power supply. Not sure how it compares to the SBooster but I can say that the Shunyata shows how good this unit really is.
Here is the lesson for me - often we look to upgrade equipment to the next level but unless you optimise the chain - you dont know what you really have in your hands. |
Firstly - always go for BNC. This is unequivocally a superior connector,
In comparison to what? |
In theory at least, bnc rca should be superior to rca but inferior to aes/ebu. |
RCA obviously. It cannot be terminated properly to any coax. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
RCA obviously. It cannot be terminated properly to any coax. Steve, your opinion (or fact) on this please.... As you know, in my case I’m going Oppo>Yggy via **RCA** coax out from Oppo and in to Yggy. Shame on me perhaps, but other than optical this is my only option. Or is it? :) Question given the aforementioned.... Technically I could go RCA coax out from Oppo and terminate with BNC coax in to Yggy. So is RCA>BNC coax "better" than RCA>RCA coax? (same coax and all else equal) Thanks. |
As you know, in my case I’m going Oppo>Yggy via **RCA** coax out from Oppo and in to Yggy. Shame on me perhaps, but other than optical this is my only option. Or is it? :) The other option is to use a BNC-BNC cable with 75 ohm RCA adapters. This is better than a cable terminated with RCA's. Like anything there are cables and then there are great cables. You get what you pay for. Technically I could go RCA coax out from Oppo and terminate with BNC coax in to Yggy. So is RCA>BNC coax "better" than RCA>RCA coax? (same coax and all else equal)
Yes, anywhere you can use BNC you should do it. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
@ozzy
As we all have different systems, (regarding your post about it degrading your sound) the Synchro-Mesh I bought a few weeks has made a huge improvement in my system. I would not want to listen to my digital playback without one now. Also, Steve’s digital cables are quite over looked. I have compared them to many and few that were much more expensive (Purist Audio Neptune) and his BNC BNC Digital cable was the clear winner. Excellent cable for the money. |
aniwolfe,
It sounds like he has improved his design from the unit that I owned.
So that’s a good thing.
With the PS Direct Stream player/dac combo I reallly have no more use for these devices.
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With the PS Direct Stream player/dac combo I reallly have no more use for these devices. +1, ozzy. With a good transport/dac combo, such devices won't do much to improve SQ. |
-1 jon2020
I have a good transport and dac combo. The SM improves quite a bit. Simaudio 260d and Lyngdorf 2170. It may not be as good as a Esoteric or PS Audio $$$$$, but I find it hard to believe that what I have is not "good" |
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jon2020
From what I understand the transport is most in-need of the SM, not the dac. |
aniwolfe,
In any transport/dac combo, beyond a certain threshold of quality, the SM may not improve SQ significantly when inserted between the combo. This can be easily verified with listening comparisons for any given combo. |
Jon2020
I understand Jon. That is why Empirical Audio has a 30 trial. If you hear an improvement "great", if not then return it.
Did you try it yourself? |
aniwolfe,
I don't intend to given ozzy's experience. :)
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