The most important thing about building a system is component matching. You can go out a spend all you dough on "class A" components and end up with system that sounds very very bad. This happens more often than not. That is why there so much equipment for sale on Audiogon. Most people don't know what they are doing and have to upgrade all the time because they are never satisfied with the sound.
Make sure you know what you want before you buy anything. I think the most overlooked thing about choosing speakers is their sensitivity and impedance. This will determine what kind of amp you will need to buy.
For instance, if you like electrostatics or planar speakers, you will have to buy big solid state gear since these speakers are difficult to drive and have low sensitivity.
If you like the sound of tube gear, then you should buy effecient speakers (>93db/w/m).
Things like sonic characteristics is also important because if you buy foward speakers and match it a foward amp then you may get an unbearable stereo system.
Everyone will tell you their system is the best sounding system in the world and every review will tell you that some component sounds better than anything twice its price. Its all bunk.
Make sure you know what everything will sound like together before you buy anything.
I always recommend easy to drive speakers because it will give you more options when choosing your other gear. |
again i put my 2 cents in. i still think electronics are more important.mostly amp. but if you are going to upgrade later go ahead and build around your speakers. you can buy the older jm lab electra speakers at half off even from dealers. 2500 for a pair of 920s. dont spend alot on cd players as next month the next 296 499 format will be out. it is like buying the best computer. |
Spend the most money on the speakers, only if you are serious about upgrading the electronics later. Speakers make the biggest difference in your system. The differences between dynamic cone driver, dynamic cone driver with ribbon tweeter, planer and electrostatic speakers are bigger than anything electronic. Of course, you have to buy the speakers that match your room and taste.
The GIGO argument is weak because a $500 or less (used) cd player does not put out garbage and is in fact closer than you think to the megabuck cd players. The GIGO argument was valid when it came to turntables and cartridges back in the '80s and computers. Not today with cd players.
Furthermore, Speakers are the not that easy to upgrade because they can be difficult to ship. Most people I know rarely buy used "big" speakers on Audiogon. Electronics are generally easier to ship, so experimenting is more convenient.
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I'd lean more toward the speakers. My own view is that the quality differential on electronics has shrunk substantially in the last two decades. By choosing carefully, you can cut your budget in half on source and amps and not lose much. You can't say the same about speakers. (Or analog gear, if that's your game.) Also, you shouldn't choose an amp until you've chosen your speakers, because you want to be sure you're buying enough power. And wires are something to play with after you've assembled your system, not while. |
for my system, the biggest sonic improvements came from the speakers, followed closely by the amplifier, then the preamp, then digital source, and finally cables, tweaks, etc. i don't understand why people tout the CDP as a critical link. imho, there are few audible differences among CDPs below $2k (and more in some cases). you're much better off buying a cheap CDP and throwing that extra $$ into the speakers or amplifier. |
My suggestion :
$2k speakers (inc stands if bookshelf/monitor is your choice)
$1500 amp (integrated may be best at this price)
$1000 CD (probably you can get away with less than this)
$500 cables (much less if you make your own)
I definitely wouldn't splurge on speakers ... they'll only highlight your savings elsewhere.
Also in my opinion $5k is all you need to spend for a CD only rig UNLESS you're primarily into classical/jazz music and are prepared to search out audiophile recordings OR are driving a big room to high SPLs. Most rock/pop CDs are not engineered to a quality to justify a more expensive setup. So I wouldn't be too quick to upgrade in the future. |
If you spent approx $1k on source, 2k on electronics (either an integrated, or separates) and 2k on speakers, you could have a pretty great sounding system. You could probably get a better integrated in your price range than separates (unless you buy used), but your upgrade path becomes more limited; i.e., you could get a separate, better power amp, but then you are using the preamp of your integrated to run it, or vice versa.
If you don't think you would want to (or could afford to)upgrade for awhile, then the better integrated might make more sense. There are some great ones out there.
But don't cheat the rest of your gear just for the sake of more expensive speakers. There are some very fine new speakers up to 2k that you could definitely run with electronics even 3 times as costly. If you enjoy the sound of the speakers, you'll only enjoy them more as you improve what comes before them. |
I think both sml and jeff make good points. My opinion is at this price level you get a much bigger bang for your buck with speakers than with other components--IN GENERAL. For example, you're going to hear a much bigger difference going from a $1000 pair of speakers to a $2000 pair of speakers than doing the same with an amp, preamp, or CD player within the scope of this system--again, in my opinion and in general. Yes you will hear important improvements with more expensive electronics at this level, but the relative level of improvement you'll hear for each dollar spent will be higher with speakers(as long as you don't buy absolute crap electronics--there is a limit). Therefore, at this price level my bias would be to spend more on speakers and maybe even look to a used amp, preamp, or integrated amp(but not a used CD player--too many moving parts for me to buy one of these used).
Here's the strategy I'd use. Set a budget of 2 to $3k for speakers and go listen to everything you can in that price range. Most audio enthusiasts find that some speakers just won't work for them, some they will like a lot, and then there will be one or two that just set themselves apart for you personally(remember, in addition to dealer demo discs make sure you bring your favorite music as well, and trust your own ears--they're the only ones that matter in the end). These speakers will do something for you on an emotional level that the others don't, and that should be your starting point for building your system. Also, once you have the right speakers picked out it will be easier to put the other pieces in place as those speakers will tend to work better with certain types of electronics and you'll know what your minimum power requirements will be.
Here's the bottom line: If you start with speakers you really love, even feeding them with marginal(but decent) electronics you'll likely still love the majority of what you hear. If you start with speakers you like but don't necessarily love, it is likely that no electronics(within your budget) are going to make you love them as you would if you started with the right speakers in the first place. You just can't replace the emotional tug of the right speakers, so make sure you get this part right.
Lastly, at this level I'd put cables low on the list of priorities. Yes they are absolutely important but I wouldn't spend more than $200 to $300 on them as you'll get more bang for your buck putting that money into the other components--again, at this level and in my opinion. These are good items to upgrade later if/when you feel the need.
There are lots of ways to skin this cat(I'm sure you'll hear lots of other well-founded opinions here), but this is absolutely the way I'd approach it and hope it helps. Best of luck, and don't forget to use your own ears, try stuff at home if you can, AND DON'T FORGET TO HAVE FUN.
Tim |
This seems like a tough feat since most stores only carry a limited selection of merchandise. For example, a local store here in Southern California sells B&W, Sonus Faber and some other brands, but only sells Rotel and Classe components. How have you guys in the past gone about finding that perfect match efficiently without hassling or burdening your local dealer? Is it even possible? What about second hand components? Do many of the people here on this forum use audiogon as their main source of information and purchase?
Thanks |
I agree with Jeffloistarca and some others here. His breakdown is well balanced. Better speakers are also more revealing, so if you get great speakers and have cheap electronics, the great speakers will sound like crap, because they do a great job of reproducing the less than great sound of your electronics.
I am always reading speaker reviews in Audioreview where the consumer reviewer will say some speakers like B&W Nautilus sound like crap. Then they say they are not worth the money because you will have to spend alot on electronics to make them sound good. What they do not realize is, the crap they hear is the rest of their system, not the speakers.
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I initially spent 70% of my budget on speakers, and spent the balance on a receiver and cd player. I basically threw my money away on the electronics. And because my amplification and source weren't up to par, I never realized the full potential of my speakers. Now I'm up to my third rig, and finally upgrading the speakers.
My rec. is to spend as much on speakers as you "have too", but not at the expense of the other electronics. Even though "it's [$$ on speakers] an investment" it's silly not to let them [speakers] shine with good electronics. I sure wouldn't spend more than 50% on my loudspeakers. you can find $2-$3k speakers that will shine with $5 worth of electronics, if you're careful in selection. Look at the Vandersteen setups in a lot of hi-end shops. I think a saw a pair of Vandersteen 1C's (<$1k) driven by $5k in electronics. And it was a "good" setup.
And look what setup is suggested to people wit $1k budgets. 33% one source, 33% integrated amp, 33% bookshelf speakers. Listen for a while, then upgrade DAC or TT-stuff, or get better wires, then maybe add a musical subwoofer down the road.
So spend what you "have to" at this point. You'd upgrade later anyway, unless you are good at modifying/tweaking speakers. |
Budget more on the front end and then find the best speaker, instead of the opposite way around. Speakers rely on what is fed to them. But best suggestion of all, you should listen to see what you like. |
$(speakers)>=$(power amp(s)); $(source+preamp)=$(power amp) than adjust it to your taste and listening needs... |
Garbage in, garbage out. You cannot fix poor signals downstream. As a rule of thumb, add up what you'd spend on a CD player, tuner, turntable, and tape deck. Whatever that amount is, should be about what you'd spend on the speakers. A balanced system sounds far more musical and enjoyable than having too much invested in source, speakers, or amplification. 30% on source components, 30% on amplifier and preamplifier, 30% on speakers, 10% on wire (interconnect, power cords, speaker wire).
If you have a total of $5k and don't care for analog then you'd spend roughly $1500 on a CD player and tuner, $1500 on amp/preamp (maybe an integrated?), $1500 on speakers (including stands if they're not floorstanders) and $500 on all the wires you need. |
I would put the bulk of the money in your speakers as they have more to do with sound quality then your electronics, i.e. $3000 speaker will sound better with 2k of electronics than vice versa. Also, make sure that you audition all your perspective gear with well recorded cds you are very familiar with. |
