I think that Jeff Zhou’s comments are true in general, but the May (and likely Spring 3) are in fact ideal candidates for digital volume control under the right conditions. The May has a very high SNR which allows for a lot of extra headroom when doing digital attenuation. It also has a very low output impedance for driving an amplifier. But you need the proper dsp setup using HQPlayer or similar with a high upsampling rate + noise shaper and ideally an amplifier that’s not too hot (lower gain) so you can minimize attenuation. In my case, the pre-in input on my amp has a 10gb attenuator built in so I can play within the top 20db. And I am using HQP to upsample to 1536 PCM with proper noise shaper into the May and thus already doing headroom attenuation - adding an extra variable 5/10 db’s doesn’t hurt whatsoever. To my ears, this sounds better than the Alps volume control on my amp (via regular line-in). But again, this only works well under the right conditions. eg. this was something that was simply not even remotely possible with my Lampizator tube dac. See this thread/post from Jussi of HQPlayer - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/death-of-the-pre-amp-and-hqplayer-digital-gain/18992/17
Holo Audio May DAC
Just read a very nice review of this in Stereophile this month and after doing some research it looks like this one could be a very nice option for me.
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
It's made in China I think (or could be Taiwan?, and yes, I am very well aware that these are two very different countries. ;)), and employs a direct to consumer model to keep the price as low as possible. This does not worry me after purchasing a Jay's Audio transport from Vinshine Audio and having zero issues.
Just curious if anyone here has heard one or purchased? I'm very intrigued. I know the Denafrips Terminator is another highly regarded DAC with a similar ordering model, but costs a couple grand more than this one. Considering that one as well.
Thanks
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
It's made in China I think (or could be Taiwan?, and yes, I am very well aware that these are two very different countries. ;)), and employs a direct to consumer model to keep the price as low as possible. This does not worry me after purchasing a Jay's Audio transport from Vinshine Audio and having zero issues.
Just curious if anyone here has heard one or purchased? I'm very intrigued. I know the Denafrips Terminator is another highly regarded DAC with a similar ordering model, but costs a couple grand more than this one. Considering that one as well.
Thanks
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Thanks @eckie77, very interesting about that analog pre-amp volume control as an option on the Spring 3. I'm curious why they don't offer a similar optional upgrade for the May? After all, if someone wants "their best" DAC, but also wants this feature, why make it only available on a lesser-model (if I understand the hierarchy of their somewhat confusing line of products). I totally get and agree with not providing a digital-volume control. Thanks! |
@eckie77 I didn’t notice a big initial difference with the Balanced to Single Ended transformer to be honest but I also haven’t done any A/B testing yet. I put it in and have left it there. I think that the reason that the Lampizator had a more “holographic” sound was due to spatial depth provided by the tube output stage. That is really the only thing I miss from it. But nothing to do with balanced/SE. |
@nquery One other factor is that my amp is single ended and after some reading and talking to others about the Holo architecture and such, I am convinced that I am not getting the most out of the Holo May. The May actually only uses the output of one side of the R2R ladder for RCA outs, and Jeff Zhu even says the balanced outputs sound better. The other change I made (and mentioned above) was to get a quality Balanced XLR to Single Ended RCA transformer (cinemags) and see if that improved the sonics on my SE amp. I think there is an incremental improvement but haven’t really A/B’ed it yet.I read your comments on singled ended and only using one side of the May DAC. Did you notice any improvement? Maybe this is also why you experienced that the soundstage vs Lampizator is less holographic? Also you said that the May is not very forgiving to lesser sources. I am using my system for both TV/streaming consumption as well as Tidal HiFi Music streaming. Would you say the Holo Audio product is not very suitable for TV, Youtube consumption? I am considering the new Spring 3, as dac/preamp in my system, but a little hesitant to order for it’s supposedly unforgiving nature. @dvdboulet Holo Audio just recently announced their new Spring 3, which apparently uses the exact same DAC module that is also used in the May DAC, albeit the May has two and is in dual mono, so the sound staging is improved a little on May. But tonally they are pretty close. Tim of Kitsune apparently says it is 95% of the May, according to this forum post: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/holo-audio-may/22104/132 This seems to be an even better value proposition for people who cannot afford the May stack, especially with the optional preamp module for those looking for a decent preamp/volume control to start with as well. Also read what Jeff Zhu has to say about it, especially with respect to digital volume control as well: Spring3 PLL is nearly the same design as our flagship dac, the May. The main difference between Spring3 and May is that May uses our latest technology and cost is no object, therefore has better components. For Spring3, it uses the latest technology as May. But the main goal is to get high performance at reasonable cost, and I believe we absolutely achieved this goal. Although it’s price is higher than Spring2. I think the performance/cost ratio is higher than Spring2. It’s not much behind May! The pre-amp module inside is a very decent way to control volume, really one of the best ways. I think the digital volume is terrible, especially for this level of DAC. So I never added digital volume control on Spring and May, only on Cyan which is our entry level product. Digital volume is very easy and has very low cost added, albeit compromised. The reason we don’t use it is that ‘free digital volume’ will lead customer to use it and not realize it is not ideal for use with our higher end dacs. I don’t want misguide the user to use our DAC is that way. I think they will be most pleased with our fully balanced, discrete analog volume control for a low optional upgrade priceSource: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/spring-3-dac/ |
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20 days and my KTE is really singing and opening up nicely. Great purchase. Thanks all your assistance/encourgment in my process. My question?? I'm consoldating my wired Network backbone to repourpse a closet and putting a gigabit 8 port hub, cable modem & router/ all network equip all in one temp controlled location. I will move my Antipodes DX3 server and its USB back up drives to this location but I will then need a streamer(new Roon endpoint) on the rack for KTE to feed via USB. What comes to my mind would be the Sonore Optical Rendu with it's elimation of electrical noise (dirty side) for the Optical Rendu (clean side) to be the new streaming roon endpoint. Any one have any experiences or thoughts??? I sent an Email to Tim Conor to see what his thoughts may be. Thanks in advance for your opinions. Jim |
I was going to wait until I had a full week of burn-in before I did any extended listening with the May KTE, but I turned on the amp yesterday around the 24-hour mark to see how things were going. There was still some significant abrasiveness on the top-end and the bass was a bit muddy, but I was also noticing that the sound stage and overall resolution had started to clean up. I left my amp on for the next 8 hours and could hear more and more improvement coming through. The issues with the treble and bass were slowly fading as well. I know it’s cliche, but I started hearing elements in songs that I had never noticed before in either my PS Audio DSD or Lumin T2. In terms of the overall presentation (at least as of yesterday), I would say the sound was a lot closer to the T2 than the PSA DSD. The soundstage wasn’t as forward nor had the same weight as the PSA DSD. I’m looking forward to hearing how it sounds after I get back home in a few days. |
Hey cudfoo, yes indeed, it’s sublime. I am sure there’s better, but probably at two or three times the price. It’s just so much better than the DS in terms of decay, soundstage, tonality. You are literally transported to the recording location and time. Right now, I am in Jesus Christus-Kirche in Berlin with Karajan and Eschenbach. As long as you don’t knock the DS (beware the cult of Ted 😉 and his fanboys), posting your impressions on the PSA website is fine, people do it all the time. I would just avoid comparisons. |
Tarheelneil: the May is really well packed and protected (at least in Europe), so DOA is highly unlikely. And IME, a dac is unlikely to need repairs. I would worry about a CD player or transport, but not a dac. And if it does need repair, I have experienced great service so far from Magna Hifi in Europe (don’t know about the US distributor), so I am not worried. |
My only concern is if there is a problem with the unit. Per Tim at kitsunehifi, re: failures "It's a case by case basis, depending on what's wrong with we will either repair it at no cost, or customer pays shipping/repair or send parts. IE if the USB module is damaged (not by the manufacturer) we can send you a USB module for repair. It is a module design which makes most repairs relatively simple. The warranty covers shipping for 30 days. If for some reason the DAC is DOA we will replace, it would be shipped to Hong Kong, and you would either be credited or have a new unit shipped back to you. For other minor repairs, it would be shipped to Lynwood, WA. We've replaced relays on the board as well as USB modules for various products. In general if you do not know what's wrong with it, you would ship to Lynwood, WA and we will determine the cause of failure. " I’m 70 years old, and am losing use of my hands for stuff like repairs. But. It’s the DOA and major repair thing that mostly bugs me. It has to go back to Hong Kong? Not repaired in the US? I absolutely LOVE everything I have read about the May, except repairing it. I have a lot of thinking to do on this. |
My May KTE arrived today and I concur with some of the earlier posts that the initial sound out of the box isn't impressive (and not at the same level as my PS Audio DSD DAC). But I was expecting that and am looking forward to having my first real impression in about a week's time after I can get 100 hours on it. I'm going to start with USB direct into my Nucleus, but will eventually give I2S a go through the Matrix. I also need to upgrade my power cable on the Nucleus which should boost the overall sound as well. (My long term goal is to get a dedicated streamer, however, for the system. Possibly a Lumin U1, Sonore Signature Rendu SE or the upcoming PS Audio Octave streamer...) |
Hey Phil - This thing is sick. Would love to post on the PSA forum - don't think it would go over well. PSA is great outfit but not thinking that they'll be able to produce anything that would be able to compete with the May anytime soon. No knock on PSA - not thinking any other company will be able to touch this for under10k either.,, |
Oczed - Recently purchased the May to replace DSD. Unlike some others my initial impressions were not favorable. 1st day was a mess. Usually is though. Over the next couple of days things started to improve dramatically, after a week I was able to understand what all the fuss was about. The May is not just better than the DSD, it’s ground breaking at this price point. I can’t imagine anything under 10K coming close. It’s high end turntable/analog good and I’m only a week in. As far as the Matrix goes I found it to be better than USB direct. I switched from USB direct early on so I’d like to give that another shot soon. Would love to simplify and use USB if it equals Matrix\I2S. I doubt it will be better. Good luck. |
I just pulled the trigger on a May KTE edition today. This will potentially replace my PS Audio DirectStream DAC which I'm currently very happy with. (The new Sunlight firmware update is great.) I'm looking to move on from the DSD DAC because I don't want to be stuck long term with a discontinued product, but I won't hesitate to hold on to it for longer if the May KTE doesn't work out. Question for existing May KTE and/or DSD DAC owners who also have the Matrix X-SPDIF 2... I have the Matrix now and haven't noticed any difference in sound with my DSD DAC when running my Roon Nucleus to the Matrix (USB) out to the DSD DAC (HDMI/i2s) versus just using the network bridge in the DSD DAC. Is that based on the streamer limitations in the Nucleus? And would/does the May KTE really benefit from the Matrix/i2s connection? |
@redwoodaudio as per my prior posts above, I have been comparing the May against a Lampizator Amber 3. In pure NOS mode with no external upsampling I generally would agree with you - the Lampizator held its own and was better in that natural/organic way that is obviously part of the tube output, even if not strictly neutral. However where I have found the May to shine is with the ability to feed it better upsampled/filtered audio via HQPlayer and the huge SNR = headroom for digital volume control and DSP. There is a ton of flexibility/tuning available there. With the Lampi the gains of upsampling weren’t as obvious and they generally have very poor noise levels. Bass was definitely not as good. My current pipeline to the May now sounds better than the Amber 3 in most aspects. That said, the organic/natural sound is still slightly missed and I will probably give a higher end Lampi a tryout at some point - Baltic 3 or Atlantic TRP. |
@luisma - I personally think that’s a misconception about tubes, that’s it’s just for ‘tube flavor’ and electrically inferior to transistors in all important ways. Plenty of designers use tube output stages these days and some only tubes. MHDT, lampizator, wells audio, wavlength audio, audio research, line magnetic, primaluna, totaldac, line magnetic, jolida, nagra, audio note… |
R2R is not the most important spec for a dac, I have found out.Agree, SD DACs can be very good as well but it can’t match a well designed tube output stageThis could be if you don’t have any other tube equipment in your chain, I personally think a tube has no business whatsoever within a DAC but that’s just my personal non professional opinion (tubes are a source of incoming RFI / EMI something you would like to avoid if possible inside a DAC) My specific chain has a tube preamp and tube amps, I don’t really need a tube DAC but a good well implemented DAC Many designers I respect have build these tube DACs, I know if fulfills a need but I don’t personally like it. but I totally respect your opinion @redwoodaudio EDIT: R2R's can be good as well and even tube DACs, it is all about the implementation |
Hi all, I posted in this thread a while ago after purchasing my level 2 may. It was a good step up from the qutest and I enjoyed it for awhile. But it really is not the greatest dac out there, even at its price. I went to a wells audio cipher tube dac (much more realistic sounding - you could say analog or natural too). $5k retail, made in California. Now I’m running a lampizator Atlantic trp, also a tube dac, about $8k with volume control made in Poland. Takes everything up several notches. Holo May is a great and flexible dac, but it can’t match a well designed tube output stage. R2R is not the most important spec for a dac, I have found out. |
This guy has good measuring equipment: He like the May a lot and shows you around inside. There is this one and a second. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa3sOSRa-U0&t=703s&ab_channel=GoldenSound |
Hey Phillppe - Thanks for getting back - nice setup... I really want to simplify if at all possible. Since the USB implementation on the May is so good want to sell my Matrix and Uptone PS w/WW Platinum Silver Starlight HDMI and put the funds into a high level USB cable. The May is starting to burn in and open up now - looking forward to the journey. By the way I have the P20 also it’s awesome. thx again... |
philippe0: Did you like
usb to matrix spdif to dac on the May? With the DS this was the way to go for me. With the May it's not the same level as the USB input (with curious usb - started working for some reason) Would love to try the Chord cables you mentioned down the road. Better USB cables seem to make a big difference with this unit. At least with the limited selection I have. Tried the USB cable that came with the May - not too good... I2S crushed USB on the DS. |
Hi All, I currently have 2 box setup; Simaudio Moon 390 to power amp. I feed 390 via eithernet connection using Roon to play music files on my PC. If I go with Holo May DAC, I will need to sell 390 to fund for the DAC and would not have enough fund for a new preamp. So given that constraint, I think I have a couple of options: 1. Connect May directly from PC via USB and use Roon's volume control. Problem here is that my PC is about 20 ft away from where the DAC would be, so will need a long USB cable. 2. Buy Bluesound Node and connect it via eithernet (like the current setup) and connect Node to May via either optical out or USB. Use either Roon or Node volume control. Does anyone know any advantage of using Roon if I have Node? Overall, which option will yield a better performance? Thanks! |
I don’t think USB cables should be making a difference given the May’s implementation unless they are simply out of spec. I use a Supra USB cable without issue. And again, I have not noticed a difference between 3 low-powered (and LPS powered) endpoints. They do. I went from a Shunyata Sigma to Omega, and yes there is an improvement. It’s not subtle. |
@nquery did you tried the EC modulators as well? do you still like the pure NOS over EC mods with HQPlayer?@luisma31 I have not yet as my current core server is not powerful to do it justice and I also want to stick with PCM upsampling first to dial in the sound before making comparisons to DSD. Right now, I am really liking the new poly-sinc-gauss-long filter that Jussi just added. It’s a filter that he has been working on for 6 years, It’s supposed to be the best of both worlds. It sounds fantastic, better than pure NOS. I am also using a cheap intel pc stick as my endpoint so I can do 1536kHz. This was also a test of the May’s USB input to see if it can back up claims that a fancy USB chain is no longer required. I have had a Sonore OpticalRendu and Allo USBridge Signature in place before this. So far, I can’t tell a difference which is great. One can not worry about USB source as much anymore. That said, I still went with a low-power endpoint and am using an LPS with it. The other change I made (and mentioned above) was to get a quality Balanced XLR to Single Ended RCA transformer (cinemags) and see if that improved the sonics on my SE amp. I think there is an incremental improvement but haven’t really A/B’ed it yet. Along with another 400 hrs of burn-in and ability to do digital volume attenuation, I am now much happier than when I first plugged the May in a few weeks ago. I do sometimes miss the organic mid-range and spatial depth of my tubed Lampizator but in most other aspects I am getting better sound from the May. |
Looks like I do have a bit of an issue. This DAC does not play nice with my Curious USB cable. Both my Aurender streamer (
USB DAC ERR Detected message from time to time) and the May seem it have trouble locking. The USB cable that came with the unit seems to be ok. Anyone have this issue? Any recomendations for a USB cable for this unit. Is that the best input to use with the May? |
The PSA DSD was not great out of the box either. Actually if my memory is correct - it was pretty crappy also. Seeing as most people are saying this thing needs 100’s of hours of break in I’m thinking it will get a lot better. My experience with the DAC is similar to most new equipment I’ve tried too soon - uneven at best. I’ll give it a few days before a serious listen. |
