High Sensitivity Speakers that work best with SS

'I've never heard a "high-sensitivity" speaker sound anything but poor with SS. It's not a path I'd pursue.'

Lindisfarne,

You must have not heard Avantgarde speakers paired up with tact room correction. When set up properly, it's unbelievable!

Lin,

It does seem to me there are two extremes for best/optimal performance in general:

1) solid state amp + low efficiency speakers
2) tube amp + high efficiency speakers

Then there are all the greyer areas that lie in between.

I think there is merit to Almargs observation that flat impedance curves may work similarly well with both tube and SS. No clear advantage either way in that case. Which speakers specifically have that though?

Raplph's comment regarding bad interaction between high efficiency speakers and negative feedback makes sense also, I think. If so, that might help explain why high efficiency speakers do not seem to work as well with SS.

WHat if high efficiency and flat impedance curve though, like, Al's Daedalus? I wonder how many prefer SS versus tubes in that case? Are the preferences skewed on way or the other? Certainly, high efficiency (combined with higher, flat impedance especially perhaps) makes a smaller tube amp possible, opening up more possibilities there.

ANy other designs like the Daedalus in regards to high efficiency and flat impedance curve? I would especially be interested in smaller, less expensive designs to start if out there. I would expect smaller designs that do not attempt to plumb the depths of teh low end to be less problematic to be designed this way in general, perhaps opening up more possibilities?

I've never heard a "high-sensitivity" speaker sound anything but poor with SS. It's not a path I'd pursue.

HI Al,

Yes, I found Ralph's point as stated interesting as well.

My Triangle Titus speakers are much smaller, not as efficient, and I do not know details of impedance curve. They might fall into a similar category as Daedalus though in regards to performing well with either tube or some SS amps. Which is better might be a personal preference thing. I will have to do some more research on them.

I will start small when the time comes to dabble with tube amps. The TAD Hibachis I currently use with them was an attempt to step in that direction but remain SS for now. THat pairing has worked out quite well! The Triangles might be a good start for use with a tube amp next. I have run the Triangles off my Bel Canto ref1000m Class D amps as well. That pairing was still quite decent, but definitely a bit too much towards the cold, dry and highly analytical end of things for my tastes. The Bel Cantos are the cat's meow however with my OHMs and Dynaudios! Its hard to envision those sounding any better.

I heard larger Daedalus speakers last summer at Capital Audiofest. One of the better sounds there. Definitely one I would consider living with. Not sure which model they were.

Hi Mapman,

Interesting point by Ralph, which I haven't seen stated before.

There seems to be a fairly wide consensus that Daedalus speakers will be compatible with pretty much any amplifier known to man, apart from some of the very low power SET's. My Ulysses are 98 db/1W/1m, the figure for the smaller models being a bit lower. I wouldn't say that they would "work or sound better with SS amps than tube amps," but rather that they would be similarly compatible with both, and the differences in the character of what is heard would reflect the intrinsic differences between the amplifiers.

Part of the reason for that versatility is undoubtedly that their impedance curve is unusually flat. I believe that my Ulysses are roughly 6 +/- 1 ohms above 100 Hz, with a gradual rise to about 10 ohms below 100 Hz.

FWIW, although I and many others prefer tube amps with them, Lou Hinkley of Daedalus tends to prefer relatively high powered solid state, and frequently demonstrates them with Modwright solid state amps. Also, the Ulysses is the reference speaker that is used by Dan Wright of Modwright.

Best regards,
-- Al

Atmasphere.

Good info. Thanks.

Is it reasonable to extrapolate then that "medium sensitivity" speakers, say 91 db are subject to the same issue, but to a lesser extent in general than "high efficiency" speakers? Is the dependency a linear or non-linear one? I suspect it is more non linear to some extent.

My Triangle Titus speakers are in your "medium" category. I think my other speakers, Dynaudio and OHM, fall into the low category.

What I hear with all these running of various SS amps in general over the years would seem consistent with what you indicate. Triangles are clearly the most "tube friendly" I own currently I would say.

I have dabbled with the idea of trying high efficiency speakers but have hesitated to do so with SS amplification. I hope to try to set up an optimized system around a low power tube amp some day, maybe starting with my current Triangles. I would really like to hear them off a decent low power tube amp. Currently, I am running them in my second system (2 channel mixed A/V, audio use, mostly audio) off a pair of TAD Hibachi 125 monoblocks, which have some tube-like tendencies but are solid state, with very good results (within the limits of the small Triangles). A decent and reliable low power tube integrated might be worth a try in that system.

Hi Mapman, high sensitivity speakers are problematic with a lot of solid state amps because they have much higher back EMF, which tends to really mess with the negative feedback that the amp employs.

If the amp has a higher output impedance this is less of a problem. One way to simulate this if you have a solid state amp is to put a resistance in series with the output of the amp (which will also reduce the back EMF that the amp sees) but of course you will loose a fair amount of power across the resistor. This will result in the higher sensitivity speaker (ex.: horn) being less shrill.

However if you are auditioning high sensitivity (I would define that as being 98 db 1 watt/1 meter or more, less than that I regard as moderate and less than 89 db is low) speakers, if you happen to hear what tubes do on them there may be no going back. Good Luck!