High Sensitivity Speakers that work best with SS

Atmasphere.

Good info. Thanks.

Is it reasonable to extrapolate then that "medium sensitivity" speakers, say 91 db are subject to the same issue, but to a lesser extent in general than "high efficiency" speakers? Is the dependency a linear or non-linear one? I suspect it is more non linear to some extent.

My Triangle Titus speakers are in your "medium" category. I think my other speakers, Dynaudio and OHM, fall into the low category.

What I hear with all these running of various SS amps in general over the years would seem consistent with what you indicate. Triangles are clearly the most "tube friendly" I own currently I would say.

I have dabbled with the idea of trying high efficiency speakers but have hesitated to do so with SS amplification. I hope to try to set up an optimized system around a low power tube amp some day, maybe starting with my current Triangles. I would really like to hear them off a decent low power tube amp. Currently, I am running them in my second system (2 channel mixed A/V, audio use, mostly audio) off a pair of TAD Hibachi 125 monoblocks, which have some tube-like tendencies but are solid state, with very good results (within the limits of the small Triangles). A decent and reliable low power tube integrated might be worth a try in that system.

HI Al,

Yes, I found Ralph's point as stated interesting as well.

My Triangle Titus speakers are much smaller, not as efficient, and I do not know details of impedance curve. They might fall into a similar category as Daedalus though in regards to performing well with either tube or some SS amps. Which is better might be a personal preference thing. I will have to do some more research on them.

I will start small when the time comes to dabble with tube amps. The TAD Hibachis I currently use with them was an attempt to step in that direction but remain SS for now. THat pairing has worked out quite well! The Triangles might be a good start for use with a tube amp next. I have run the Triangles off my Bel Canto ref1000m Class D amps as well. That pairing was still quite decent, but definitely a bit too much towards the cold, dry and highly analytical end of things for my tastes. The Bel Cantos are the cat's meow however with my OHMs and Dynaudios! Its hard to envision those sounding any better.

I heard larger Daedalus speakers last summer at Capital Audiofest. One of the better sounds there. Definitely one I would consider living with. Not sure which model they were.

Lin,

It does seem to me there are two extremes for best/optimal performance in general:

1) solid state amp + low efficiency speakers
2) tube amp + high efficiency speakers

Then there are all the greyer areas that lie in between.

I think there is merit to Almargs observation that flat impedance curves may work similarly well with both tube and SS. No clear advantage either way in that case. Which speakers specifically have that though?

Raplph's comment regarding bad interaction between high efficiency speakers and negative feedback makes sense also, I think. If so, that might help explain why high efficiency speakers do not seem to work as well with SS.

WHat if high efficiency and flat impedance curve though, like, Al's Daedalus? I wonder how many prefer SS versus tubes in that case? Are the preferences skewed on way or the other? Certainly, high efficiency (combined with higher, flat impedance especially perhaps) makes a smaller tube amp possible, opening up more possibilities there.

ANy other designs like the Daedalus in regards to high efficiency and flat impedance curve? I would especially be interested in smaller, less expensive designs to start if out there. I would expect smaller designs that do not attempt to plumb the depths of teh low end to be less problematic to be designed this way in general, perhaps opening up more possibilities?

Rrog,

I won't put any limitations on it.

Thanks.

Gopher, I wonder what it is about Tektons that would account for a better mating with a SS amp? Voicing perhaps in some way?

First Watt amps are a special case in my mind in that they are designed around being lower power. That means high efficiency speakers for best results no doubt. Most SS amps are not designed to care much about speaker efficiency. The better, more expensive ones tend to be higher power as well opening up more options for less efficient speakers. WIth tube amps, power tends to be lower and more expensive to own per watt I would say and high efficiency speakers are of course then their natural mates.

It does not make much sense to me to consider what well designed amp A sounds like compared to well designed amp B. There is no sound without adding speakers (and source as well). Only then can results be judged. That's like trying to judge two different chicken soup recipes without including all the other seasonings that go into it.

I would say though that a flat impedance curve is appealing on paper at least in order to start out with a level playing field. Of course, one will still not know what really works or sounds best to them until they try different things, so maybe not much practical advantage or difference there for most.

With speakers that require higher power solid state amps, the strategy that has been re-affirmed repeatedly for me over the years to work best is to not risk cutting corners in terms of power rating of amps used. In most cases like this for most owners of "audiophile" grade speakers in most rooms, I do not think anyone should regret using 200w/ch or more amps as an insurance policy against clipping or other distortion artifacts that might be introduced when an amp is not 100% + up to the task being asked. Newer higher efficiency solid state amp designs are the ticket here IMHO. In terms of overall efficiency, and ability to deliver better sound, higher efficiency amps help equal the playing field for less efficient speakers to be able to keep up with their more efficient cousins. Throwing a 250w/ch Class D amp at a pair of inefficient speakers that might benefit from it is not a big stretch these days for most "audiophiles". Its one way that advances in technology continue to change the playing field IMHO.

I have seen apparently vendor neutral headphone websites that provide very detailed charts regarding headphone specifications at teh various frequencies. I found that very useful to help sort through the myriads of headphone/earphone products out there these days at all price points. Sure would be nice if something similar existed for speakers that would help one know better what should work best, at least on paper, prior to trying. I suppose magazines like Stereophile and others do provide such information, but it is not as complete nor centralized, which would maximize the value.

Maybe that's good fodder for a useful future Audiogon site enhancement to help people sort through the noise prior to spending the big bucks on high end audio?

"Mapman, do you have in mind any specific combination of very efficient speakers and a powerful amp?"

THe powerful SS amps are my current Bel Canto ref1000a mono- blocks. No specific speakers in mind, though I am more interested initially with smaller designs with bass extension that might compare favorably in terms of both price and performance to a decent pair of lower efficiency monitors.