Help picking an amp to work with my system


I recently obtained some Martin Logan ESL X speakers and absolutely love them.  That said, they are part of my surround sound system, so I use them for both, listening to music, and then when I want to do movies, they become the left and right channel of my surround sound.

I’m currently Bi-Amping them off of my Denon 4520ci receiver, but have had issues with them starting to distort if played at around 95db on a heavy bass song, within halfway through the song.  I posted about it in another group, but my post was deleted.  I believe the receiver I’m using just doesn’t have the capabilities RMS to keep up with that draw (Astronauts in the Ocean by Masked Wolf is a perfect example of a song that will sound crisp in the beginning and halfway through, start to distort).

I still need my receiver for surround functionalities, but for these two speakers, I was considering getting a dedicated 2channel amp and use the receiver as the pre-amp for them.  Does anyone have any recommendations on an Amp that’s affordable and clean?  I was thinking a Peachtree Nova 300, hopefully I can find one open boxed/used.  Would this unit fit my needs, or would it be pushing it with these speakers even using that amp?

maverick3n1

I have ESLs and they are not that hard to drive. They are 91db same as the ESLX. I have driven mine with a 25 tube amp. However they do go down to 1.6 ohms at high frequencies. The Nova300 might not like that, I'm not sure. I am a little concerned about playing those at high levels. You don't want to start arcing the panels by pushing too hard. IMHO, you'll need a really robust amp that doubles down and is comfortable with low impedances (expensive). 

Supposedly they need to be played at 90+ DB for something like 45 hours to actually break them in, so is 95db really that high of a volume considering the break in requirement?

From the manual:

BREAK-IN
When you first begin to play your EM-ESL speakers, they will sound a bit bass shy. This is due to the high quality, long-life components used in our woofer. Our custom made, butyl surround woofer requires approximately 72 hours of break-
in at 90 dB (moderate listening levels) before any critical listening. The break-in requirements of the crossover components (and, to a lesser degree, the stator) are equivalent.

so is 95db really that high of a volume considering the break in requirement?

If you are clipping your amp, you are already playing way too loud for your equipment. Adding a robust 200wpc amp will help with that but I’m still concerned about your volume levels. Why so loud? Big room? One more thought, have you boosted the bass on your AVR?

My receiver is setup flat so the original content determines frequency levels. I used to run sound for concert and love loud clean music.  That said, I don’t have to have it that loud.  I’ve just intentionally been playing it that loud, even if I’m listening from down the hall, in order to break the speakers in per the original instructions.  As for room size, I believe it’s 15’ deep and 23’ wide.

That said, I don’t have to have it that loud

In that case get a good A/B or Class D amp with some serious power and low ohm capability (200wpc is enough) and maybe think about a sub to take on some of the load. If you like the Nova give them a call and ask if it will handle the low impedance load of 1.6 ohms.

A Sub is definitely in the plan.  When, I’m not sure.  I can’t run DTS sound and multiple other audio formats without the sub.  Receivers won’t allow you to run those formats and re-route your low end to your mains unfortunately.  Unfortunately, my center channel will have to be an in-wall and will be about 8 feet off the ground, so I’ll need to get a good center that I can adjust the direction.  My screen comes down in front of a fireplace, which is the cause of the need for a in wall center, which would be in the face of the soffit I’m building for the drop down screen.  I couldn’t find a drop down screen that was ALR and Audio Transparent unfortunately.  If anyone makes one, it would likely be Strewart which is way outside of my budget.  Even with an audio transparent screen positioning my center better, I still would need an in-wall as it would be over the fireplace.

Gotta do what I’ve gotta do to make what I love function within the limitations of my space and budget.  I just know I’ve wanted these speakers for the last 15 years and finally got them!  That’s a huge step in the right direction :)

If anyone has some suggestions on a popular, affordable Amp to drive these speakers that I could likely find for sale used on here or elsewhere, that will get the job done, I’d appreciate it :)

It’s unfortunate, but I’ve found most audiophile surround sound receivers are slow, have a ton of bugs, and spend more time being repaired than installed.  McIntosh, and Arcam (or Arcrap as we used to call it when I worked in AV).  I’ve always felt Denon’s higher end receivers seemed to have the best quality sound across all I’ve heard, and were the most reliable.  McIntosh pre-amp receiver sounded great when you got them calibrated with multiple tube amps, but the entire package would cost you a new car, and half the time, the preamp would choke.  Love their amps though!

Parasound A21 will do the job. Also make sure you pull the ESLXs out from where your screen is. A couple of feet will do it, 3 feet is better. 

To integrate the additional 2 channel amplifier it will need to be home theatre bypass capable and the AV receiver will require the ability to pre-out the front left and right channels.

Luckily your Denon and the Peachtree fit the requirements.

For more options for integrated with HT bypass, try this site.

http://www.audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input

Sounds of underpoweringspeakers. 
 

make sure you have the headroom 

those 25W thingies are fine for an average room or small room with a sub they sound nice. 
 

if you love a little volume , you will need a good, 200wpc

had 15 or so amps since mid,80’s, will never go less than 200-250 rms/ch. 

So here is an idea.. one of my buddies recommended a NAD M22 which seems like a nice solution.. however, correct me if I’m wrong, but a majority of the high power draw and the low impedance is coming from the 2 - 8” subs in each speaker… what if instead of spending the money on the amp, I instead, spend the money on a nice Subwoofer (would love one of ML’s subs to match!).  Since my ultimate goal is to get a full 5.1 system running again, and I’m currently short a center and a sub, if I get the sub, the receiver will take some of the lower end load off of the stereo channels and drive it to the sub channel.

While of course, the ultimate goal would be to get a dedicated amp for these speakers, I utilize my sound system for it‘s theater properties about 80% of the time and listening properties 20%.  If adding a sub would resolve the clipping issues and I have to run music in 2.1 until I get an amp that can handle just letting these speakers be the stand alone beasts they can, it seems like a more up front win/win cost effective solution.

Am I wrong?

No, you’re not wrong.  In fact, since you’re 80% HT I think getting a sub first makes a lot of sense.  However...

I was considering getting a dedicated 2channel amp and use the receiver as the pre-amp for them.

NO!!!!!  I forbid you from making this horrific mistake.  Using the Denon as a pre will suck the life from your 2-channel performance, and your MLs deserve better than that.  You’re better off getting an integrated amp so you bypass both the amp and preamp sections of the Denon.  AVRs absolutely SUCK at 2-channel versus dedicated stereo components.  Get something like this and you’ll be MUCH happier as will your MLs.  Bryston plays very well with ML BTW.  Best of luck.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234549952232

Something like the the NAD

however, can pre-amp for movie theater purposes, and can also be the solo in between for my Sonos… there is nothing wrong with using it that way…. Stand alone for 2ch, and only using preamP for movie theater.

I think the Bryston would sound better with your MLs.  Yeah just run the front L/R preouts from the Denon into the HT bypass or other line level input on the integrated and hook the integrated up to your speakers and you’re all set.