Help me pick a phono, pre and cart

@jetson 

I swapped out a few phono preamps recently: Zesto Andros to ARC PH6 to Whest PS.30RDT SE+ (the Whest was the keeper for me). These phonos all sounded vastly different and in my case I liked the clarity and lower noise of the Whest. One thing I learned was I needed a little more gain from my phono preamp than the KAB calculator recommended. Buying a phono with several gain settings to match the rest of your system might be a good idea with at least of couple of settings > 60 dB.

I'd be careful about impedance compatibility between the phono stage that you choose and your Ayre integrated amp.  The Ax-7e's input impedance of 20K unbalanced and 40K (20K per phase) balanced is too low to be optimal with either the Herron or ARC phono stages that have been suggested.  Or with many other tube-based phono stages, for that matter.

Also, +1 re the ART9, which I use in conjunction with a Herron VTPH-2.

Good luck.  Regards,
-- Al

The VPI feet do not seem to be very good. Many people prefer to place VPI tables on Stillpoint cones or Bear Claws and remove the VPI feet.

True enough! I replaced the rubber inserts on my Classic 3 with Symposium inserts and added a Symposium Segue ISO platform for it to sit on. One of the best upgrades for the dollar I've ever made.

My opinion....

I would agree with @oregonpapa on the cartridge selection, but not with the PH-8. The ART9 has a great reputation. I do not have ANY experience, but there are a lot of people that think it’s a great performer, particularly with your musical preferences. IMO, the PH-8 was "pretty good" in its day, but is bettered by a lot of phono stages since then. Again, IMO, the Herron Audio VTPH-2a stands alone at the top of the list. Just my opinion.

@jetson The plinth of the Prime Sig is a completely different material and construction than the basic Prime. As an engineer, keep in mind the tremendous amount of amplification of that tiny electrical signal coming from the cart. Not only will that signal be amplified, but every tiny resonance and bit of noise in the chain will be amplified as well and become part of the playback. Plinth construction and material are important.  

Not meaning to sound preachy, but sometimes it’s important to focus on the details as well.

Another opinion on VPI tables in general....

The VPI feet do not seem to be very good. Many people prefer to place VPI tables on Stillpoint cones or Bear Claws and remove the VPI feet. There’s something about the rubber damping in the VPI feet that doesn’t work. Sometimes the plinth can be overdamped (the VPI rubber feet?) and the signal can sound slightly dead with a loss of dynamics and timing.  That has been the biggest complaint against VPI over the years.  I have my Aries Extended on Stillpoint cones with an obvious improvement in performance. It turned a very good table into a great table. No problems from overdamped sound.  Just my opinion. YMMV.

jetson ...

As an engineer, the tendency is to analyze everything to death. As an audiophile, the goal is to duplicate a live music performance in the home in the best way you can.  

Tubes:  Not to worry about "used" tubes. They last a long time in a phono stage. What I would do would be to buy a new tube set as soon as I bought my used ARC PH-8.  Not expensive at all. 

On the cartridge ... I recommended the ART-9 because I've been through many MC cartridges including the AT OC9 MK III.  The ART-9 is the much better cartridge ... as it should be for twice the money. It has a slightly higher output at .05 as opposed to the .04 output of the OC-9. This makes the ART-9 an almost perfect match for the PH-8. The ART-9, like all AT cartridges, is an over-achiever, competing with cartridges in the 3k to 5k range, for under 1k. 

Hope this helps ...

Frank

Thanks. Interesting that you both suggested AT carts.

@oregonpapa ARC obviously makes great components, and I appreciate the suggestion, but I get Leary on used tubes. Should I? My reading also leads me to believe people in lots of forums rave about the ART-9. Thanks.

@bpoletti Seens like lots of folks love the Herron VTPH-2A too. Thanks.

Those would both leave me with room to get the VPI Prime, or maybe even the signature. Is the Signature worth the extra $2k over the Prime? I could be wrong but from reading the VPI site the difference seems to be mostly on the base and tonearm. In other words, looks like the same motor, platter and bearings. The pulleys only have a difference of 0.00015” tolerance. In other words, negligible to speed when you have a 300 RPM motor “geared” to 78 RPM. Thermal expansion of the Aluminum platter between 65 and 80 degrees would make a bigger difference. (Sorry - I’m an engineer lol). So I guess you’re primarily paying for the tonearm and base.

Budget 8 to 10k?

 How about a used ARC PH-8 and a new AudioTechnica ART-9?

There are a LOT of potential combinations that would provide pleasing vinyl playback.  I have no particular dog in this fight, but would suggest one possible combination that would work well for the music you enjoy.  Perhaps consider a VPI Prime, an AT OC9/II and a Herron Audio VTPH-2a.  

The Prime is a solid performer and sounds much better than its price tag.  The OC9/II is a great performer, tracks like a champ and the image and soundstage are quite excellent.  It has a lot of the qualities of very expensive cartridges without the refinement and sophistication.  The Herron Audio VTPH-2a is probably as good as it gets.  There is no point in considering an upgrade to the VTPH-2a.  IMO, none exists.  I have heard nothing better and it's been a solid performer in my system for years.

I know several users of this combination with VERY GOOD results.  

OK, that's a start.  And just my opinion.