Has to be said


Hi,
i been reading most sites and the little arguments about this and that about making audio in this case be more pleasent ot better to any individual. and have to say upfront that if "you" believe its better to you than it is in fact true to you and you only. we are just reletive respondants to each other and therefore nature and the universe.
many of the subjects that come up as to improving ones audio system tend to go into little details that may or may not have "real" affects on most of us. and also be provable with phsics,math,medical studies etc.many musicians and many humans can distinguish alot of these aspects. and they are ALL quantifiable and measureable very easilly. from 1800 till today FFT and resonance,sound perfiliration has been well adjustable from the totally acoustic pipe organs to the music halls 100s of years ago with out electronic fixes, and all these new snake oil gagets on the market. many are always big commenters here on this site.
Its totally true you can "fix" and sound wave with free rocks,walls,chambers, etc. so go for it at a cost of zero dollars. and adbandon all these marketing hacks.
Ive been well into sound,RF,Radioation, Electron manulipation, Audio,phsics etc all my life and all my relatives aslso . I dont need to justify my opinions yet am dignified by holding 8 international patents,2 doctrets and my dad with similar fields.
one crazy obvious thing no one even bothers to mention is the way off standard of 440hz shifted 8hz the earths standard resonance. while all the 1000s of years 432hz was based on real natural happenings before electronics. dont you all care everything you listen to is 8hz off tune and therefore wrong, but you will bicker about a few microvolts noise from an ocslittating wire with parallell wire  hanging off a standoff. itf too funny to me.
yes all digital except one source tunes their DAC math to 435hz to be more correct to Verdi and other great composers.
ive got tuning forks over the audio and above spectrum and tune my panios violins etc to them 432 hz
and need to say again. yes please do everything Analoge
to correct your sound system, its been done in churches,music halls,the great pyrmids, with instruments themselves.
but do not chase the rabbit down the money hole to fix apparent physhoacoustics in your listening area.

ps the spelling and writing is horrid cause ive got a brain injury2 years ago and under go EEG,ehthesographs and neuro studies constantly. where various frequency sweeps are put thru me and studied by the medical and commercial fields.
Im off for now to play my bass thru 50000watts total. and resonate the neighborhood at 8.2 HZ....

128x128hemigreg
@geoffkait's record is broken. He's the physicist and he keeps asking dumb questions. Please buy one of his gizmos so he'll leave these threads alone. Nobody likes a troll.
Let us reason together, shall we?

Exhibit A:

“X-rays have much shorter wavelengths than visible light, which makes it possible to probe structures much smaller than can be seen using a normal microscope. This property is used in X-ray microscopy to acquire high resolution images, and also in X-ray crystallography to determine the positions of atoms in crystals.

Interaction with matter[edit]

X-rays interact with matter in three main ways, through photoabsorption, Compton scattering, and Rayleigh scattering. The strength of these interactions depends on the energy of the X-rays and the elemental composition of the material, but not much on chemical properties, since the X-ray photon energy is much higher than chemical binding energies. Photoabsorption or photoelectric absorption is the dominant interaction mechanism in the soft X-ray regime and for the lower hard X-ray energies. At higher energies, Compton scattering dominates.

Photoelectric absorption[edit]

The probability of a photoelectric absorption per unit mass is approximately proportional to Z3/E3, where Z is the atomic number and E is the energy of the incident photon.[64] This rule is not valid close to inner shell electron binding energies where there are abrupt changes in interaction probability, so called absorption edges. However, the general trend of high absorption coefficients and thus short penetration depths for low photon energies and high atomic numbers is very strong. For soft tissue, photoabsorption dominates up to about 26 keV photon energy where Compton scattering takes over. For higher atomic number substances this limit is higher. The high amount of calcium (Z=20) in bones together with their high density is what makes them show up so clearly on medical radiographs.”

he started wave influence with sensors that could identify german diesel locols on the track in europe to blow up supply trains. ive still got them too. they could differentiate from empty train,coal loco,freight car or coal car in front of lolo. so only the prime movweer would be blown up. all using specific harmonics,band gaps,resonaces and carbon steel wheel capacitance to the rail at passing.  yea Im bad heavy into this stuff.
 
A little off track here (punn intended) if you mean blowing up diesel trains during WW II I am not sure many trains would be blown up. More likely steam engines.  If they could only detect German diesel engines I would run German steam engines. 
I.e., portable CD player/headphone system, you can reduce mass a lot more AND eliminate even more things that produce distortion and noise -
That is what world is going towards, or has already gone to. Eliminating CDs altogether. That eliminates CD players, too. It eliminates vibrations, maybe decreases need for isolation, and even decreases need for New Dark Matter. Oops! Did I just say that?

"Interconnects, speaker cables, digital cable, big power supplies."
Headphone cable is, effectively, a speaker cable. Thankfully, those have become obsolete, too.

As Michael Green correctly said many times (maybe not in exact words but to that effect), low-mass systems are what people of the future are going for.

Just ask any 16-year-old would they rather have red iPhone 11 with Airpods Pro, or Pass amplifier or two.
sailboat
if you really want to get into discussions of how electronic waves propagate in circuits, you need to look into the work of Dr. Ivan Ndip at Fraunhofer IZM in Berlin. fascinating stuff. those waves don’t confine themselves to the wires or circuit traces on a board or wiring harness.

Very interesting stuff...

I use shungite stones+copper tape on one side, in my audio experiments, is it possible that the stones+copper affected the signals trough some sort of passive filtering decreasing the noise floor trough interaction with the electronic waves ? I ask to you because the effect is stunningly good, cheap and I had no explanation to date...It is my idea and it gives my system a boost in all counts... I use that on the central breaker panel, interconnect even on top of the capacitors of my Schumann Generators etc....Thanks for your time...
432 hz to 440 hz is irellevent...
Pitch has been altered in many recordings anyways....

An interesting read nonetheless. 
sorry, autocorrect changed the spelling.  I typed PHOTONS but in several places the autocorrect replaced photon with PHOTOS.  

Sorry.  note it was Audiogon's autocorrect that did this.  not my autocorrect in my computer.  

sailboat.
Quite fascinating the 432/440 debate

Why do we not just slow down all our music by 2%, thereby effectively "retuning" to 432?


@geoffkait 

"Sorry, but you missed my point entirely. The electromagnetic wave - the Schumann wave - is photons. All electromagnetic waves are photons. Like say, X-rays, radio waves, Gamma rays. That’s why all electromagnetic waves travel at c in a vacuum. Everybody and his brother has seen the blue Cherenkov radiation."

Geoffkait.. often I agree with your posts.  But this one is simply NOT TRUE.  All electromagnetic waves are not photos. All photons are electromagnetic waves... but all electromagnetic waves are not photos.  

In the realm of audio systems these waves are electrons propagating through the circuits until the transducer (speaker) converts those electrons into sound waves.  Even the digital signals are still electromagnetic waves.  Just shaped and pulsed to make a digital signal.

Now I am not going to write a phd thesis here.  But to be clear; I absolutely know what I am talking about.  degree in physics.  degree in math.  degree in chemistry.  more to the point; I spent the last 30 years helping build the worldwide communications networks.  

EVERY bit, ever communications over copper or wireless or fiber... every communications in the entire world uses technology that I helped invent.  A company I founded created optical devices that today carry (not kidding here) more than 60% of ALL GLOBAL COMMUNICATIONS traffic of all kinds.  

I helped develop the worlds fastest modulators.  Communications lasers.  complex network systems.  

I was one of the very first users of what later became the internet.  Back when only 5 universities had links to DarpaNet.  

I have been involved with every major communications advance in the last 30 years.

I sit on standards bodies.

All electromagnetic waves are not photons.  There are waves propagated by electrons.  RF waves that propagate in both space and atmospheres.  X rays, gamma rays.. again, not photons.

Yes, all photons are expressions of electromagnetic waves.  but all waves are not photons. 

if you really want to get into discussions of how electronic waves propagate in circuits, you need to look into the work of Dr. Ivan Ndip at Fraunhofer IZM in Berlin.  fascinating stuff.  those waves don't confine themselves to the wires or circuit traces on a board or wiring harness.  if you really want to drive noise low, it gets down into small details of how you do the vias in your PCB, how you lay out the traces in 3 dimensions and more.  

Note: my last invention runs at over 400Ghz per lambda and aggregated over the DWDM spectrum, can carry over 20Tbits on a single fiber.  

I was also deeply involved with the creation of both 4g and the upcoming 5g wireless standards.  

And early in my career helped build the first cellular networks in the world.

I personally know and work with the CTO's of Verizon, ATT, Sprint, T-Mobile, DT, BT, China Mobile, NTT, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon... well you get the picture.

I am deeply embedded in the world of photons and manipulating them.

again, normally you are right on with your comments.  But this one is not accurate. 

sailboat
A few things for your consideration.

1. A low mass system would have even lower mass if it were mechanically isolated. If you put amps that are sitting on an iso stand on a scale you’ll see they weight considerably less than when they aren’t on a stand. Isolation stands are, in effect, anti-gravity systems! 🤗

2. When you go to a low mass system you eliminate some things that produce noise and distortion, e.g., big honking transformers and big honking capacitors.

3. Beyond low mass systems. 😛 By hopping off the AC grid and going to battery power you can eliminate more things that produce noise and distortion - power cords, AC power itself, ground issues. Then, going to ULTRA LOW MASS + LOW POWER systems, I.e., portable CD player/headphone system, you can reduce mass a lot more AND eliminate even more things that produce distortion and noise - Interconnects, speaker cables, digital cable, big power supplies. You can even eliminate room tuning. Oops! Did I just say that?

No matter how much you have in the end 🔚 you would have had even more if you had started out with more. 🔝
You guys would serve yourselves well by seeing what listeners are actually "doing".
It is called AirPods.

And it is really light and getting better and better. Michael Green leads 1:0.
So enjoyable!

Really!

I'm going to get a bowl of popcorn, a soda and turn up Marianne Faithfull and reread this.



LOL, Hemi you’ll be OK. Again thank you members who are Tunees and thank you Agon for this forum.

Hi Geoff, maybe the members who keep in contact with me are wrong, but I don’t think so, I see the same thing they do.

Here’s the good news folks, the industry and hobby are getting their act together by selling off their massive systems and going Low Mass. If that’s trolling man am I guilty as charged and loving it. You guys would serve yourselves well by seeing what listeners are actually "doing". In the meantime I hope you don’t mind folks enjoying the heck out of their systems after being stuck in the box for so many years.

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

mg


PS: I believe this is still about listening to music :)

thanks mike, but please dont use this thread to up your sales as it obvisouly did by the thanks replys. next mr ps audio will be on.  lol

michaelgreenaudio

it’s very simple

"everything affects everything else" and the only way you are going to find out is "do". All the rest is really want-a-bee talk or internet trolling.

This year I have seen many HEA audiophiles dump their gear and go low mass and tunable (thanks). Some of these folks are members here who have told me "never going back". So to these members some of you guys look pretty silly :)

Hi Tunees, thanks for your emails and PMs! Is the activity here shrinking by big numbers or have I missed something? Stereophile died because of trolling, is the same happening here?

>>>>No, everything’s fine, Michael. It’s very active. Thanks for trolling. I mean thanks for asking. Oops, my faux pas!

 it's very simple

"everything affects everything else" and the only way you are going to find out is "do". All the rest is really want-a-bee talk or internet trolling.

This year I have seen many HEA audiophiles dump their gear and go low mass and tunable (thanks). Some of these folks are members here who have told me "never going back". So to these members some of you guys look pretty silly :)

Hi Tunees, thanks for your emails and PMs! Is the activity here shrinking by big numbers or have I missed something? Stereophile died because of trolling, is the same happening here?

....hey....the sturm und drang stopped....the sun’s out....everyone seems to have sheathed their weapons....

Wonder never ceases....*S*

I’ve heard of the 440/432 debate, which strikes me as a search for the ’roots’ of music, and how it all began. *L* As we as a species have spent a considerable amount of time hangin’ around a fire rather than ’modern instruments’ (and much less with audio reproduction systems), it holds a certain fascination....

Lately, I’ve been enjoying these folks....

https://heilung.bandcamp.com/album/lifa

"Krigsgaldr" is one that I enjoy...and Ms.Franz voice in it can raise the hair on the back of your neck....in a pleasant fashion. ;) Don’t have to be concerned about the wolves, after all...*G*

I think I may try something ’GNU’ with it, just to see what it does...

Thanks, Geo...and David. Something interesting to pursue....;)
Thanks for the info about the GNU OCTAVE ...

I am pleased to read about... My best...
w.r.t to the Evo Mahgister,

https://www.criticalsound.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Review-EVO-432-Dutch-Translation-Music-Emotion.pdf

If you want to play around with resampling, learn how to use GNU Octave, a freeware math package. You can load in a WAV file and do whatever you want with it. No cost.


From a musical point of view, it is still interesting to describe what the EVO does in 432 fashion.In fact, you are transposing, because you play the music in a different key.The A on the keyboard is not quite a Gis, but something in between.The music is thus not fully transposed to the scale of Gis.That sounds (in the ears of the undersigned) light alienating and sometimes here and there dissonant, especially if you have the voices of artists in your head.So a piece of music gets a different atmosphere.A curious sensation is listening to piano or guitar in 432 mode.It experiences as listening to an instrument that is not properly tuned.

Atdavid...

For sure I know all that controversies about this 432 Hz debate...But I am very conscious also about the real impact on the body of frequencies choosen sounds...

How about this scientific reference to establish some balance with this subject and not throwing the baby with the bathwaters(sometimes dirty waters and I am conscious about your careful point and the debate about tuning).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327439522_Effect_of_528_Hz_Music_on_the_Endocrine_System_an...

and this one is relevant to our last discussion also and also this one...

Inaudible High-Frequency Sounds Affect Brain Activity: Hypersonic Effect

https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/jn.2000.83.6.3548
Thanks for this news about the EVO 432....And for Melody Gardot example...

I regret my lack of money tough for this one EVO...

                             (/))
                       ( :
                             (o)
Post removed 
Interesting post...

Thanks...

I know for sure that sound touch us immediately and objectively, our inconscious is way more refine in perception than our conscious mind, then it makes sense for me to play modern tune on a prehistoric instrument designed by a caveman with the same ears than us....


By the way I like Werner Herzog intuitive mind very much...
Without too much trouble I found this somewhere in cyberspace. I’ll leave it someone else to decide it’s message.

“This frequency of 440 Hz is called the standard "Concert Pitch" and has been the practice everywhere since about 1939. It was officially adopted by the global ISO Standard in about 1956. Just about all the music you hear is adjusted to this specific pitch. But this was not always the case.

The story told on the web claims that most ancient instruments in human history were tuned to a different pitch. The one most preferred was 432 Hz. It is claimed that even the oldest flutes, dating back to the Neanderthals (45,000 BCE) were tuned to 432, as were the lyres in ancient Greece and the wind instruments discovered in Egyptian tombs.

An interesting story claims that the lyres of the temples of Greece were an integral part of the ceremonies worshiping Isis and other so-called mystery schools. Cult members were aroused to states of ecstasy by the sounds of this 432 Hz tuned music which, in the case of the Eleusinian Mysteries, made them filled with compassion and altruism. For this reason, according to the story, the war-like state of Sparta had all the lyres re-tuned to a higher frequency, thus nulling the anti-war sentiments.

Obviously, the ancient people did not have tuning forks or digital meters and so it is presumed that this frequency of 432 is intuitive, meaning that it somehow sounded right to the human ear. This kind of intuition is supported by the surprise that even the most ancient flutes all have what is called a heptatonic scale of eight notes ("Do, Re, Me, Fa...") such that, if you picked one up back then you could conceivably play Yankee Doodleon it. In fact, in Werner Herzog's film documentary, Cave Of Forgotten Dreams, archaeologist Wulf Hein plays The Star Spangles Banner on a Paleolithic flute made from the radius bone of a vulture.”


Interesting toughts...I think you are right on the spot for natural sound healing effect...432 hz tuned instrument also I guess...And I am sure that the effect is very physical... Soul and body are one...

The polluting noise environment is detrimental and unbeknownst to many, not only loud noises or background noises, but bad choices for tuning like the 440 hz or exposition to too much artificial sounds...

please notice that how often the sounds-Ie waves forms derived from natural sources as well as old school 432 hz tuned instruments from way back music are effective to the human positive experience.
im not talking soal or god or anything but a real basic physical/electrical reaction in the body on a cellular level.   im hoping the doctret wife in biofeedback comes in on this. please stop the banter about whose wiki research is better.    some experience with white/pink/brown noise shoes real physicalogical response.same is obvious true for plotting the fft of annoying sounds,   way off tones,very random freqs, wild modulated waves etc. you get the point. stuff you cant do a proper mathametical algorthrum. ive also fuund that older folks that cant "hear" the 20khz anymore (60+years old)are in fact effected by played contet if its sharp odd ordered harmonics. kinda like secret imposed information.
For example when you are not only in physical pain, but in an acute spiritual or psychological pain, nevermind the names, you dont feel light and you dont enjoy your normal musical listening at all...You are not able to play anymore...

Then at these times I try some music, designed to heal, there are many that suit particular needs and spiritual moods... With success...

An example of some music I enjoy for my own therapeutic use... This will not suit everybody, it is just an example of some kind of music I dont listen to in normal times of my life, but I cannot listen to much to it when I need it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uho4EPuJVtY

This music for example calm my soul...


And remind yourself that there is a difference between relaxing music only and music with therapeutic effect first... The frontier is not clear cut for sure, but when you are in pain, you feel the difference in your bones...

For relaxation only I listen to natural sounds, wind chimes, or very simple piano melody...


Most of the days I am strong and in health, it seems so to me and others tough :) and I listen to Shostakovitch piano preludes, Scriabin or some Sun Ra free jazz marvels or Bach or Persian or Indian favorites.... All music i cannot even touch when i am in pain....But these happy days are more numerous because I am lucky in life thanks God...


My best to all


I cannot resist to say these words that had no relation to my post :)

God exist thanks to the music of Bach that prove it; and man can be a god also, a lesser one for sure, but a god tough, thanks to the Scriabin music that proves the fact...( choose a Sofronitsky interpretation for the Scriabin proof)


One thing I know for sure, it is better to listen to some musical sound than takes a pill...:)

I am curious about the OP experience with sound....


Sometimes ago I listen only music or sound that suit my conscious taste...But for about a year now I observe exposing myself to certain sound ( perhaps better say frequencies) had certain negative or positive effect, or reinforcing effect...It is feed back and placebo also, but more than that, there is really an objective side effect to the effect of sound from the cellular to the conscious level...I am not a scientist, but I have my experience...And there is much out there for those who want to read...

For sure these experiments with sound healing are more convincing and easy to make for someone that is already in pain, hurted, or very sensible ( I am), otherwise collective blind test with corticoid production measurement protocols for example are mandatory for the research... 

like this one:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327439522_Effect_of_528_Hz_Music_on_the_Endocrine_System_an...


My best to all...
But Geoff you cannot tune for yourself the violin of the violinist that plays some tune on your system...It is my point...I am interested in this social convention of tuning the fork and his effect on us listening to that in our perfectly tuned, otherwise, very refined tweaked audio system, and like you already know it is the point that the OP wanted to discuss...( mine audio system is tuned tough and yours also I think)… :)
atdavid"pull up your pants. No one wants to see that"
You sound hurt and disturbed, very, very disturbed.
There are many ways to tune a system. And they have been mentioned and perhaps even discussed many times before. Tiny little bowl resonators, Mpingo discs, suspending or elevating cables, tube traps and Helmholtz resonators, Schumann resonance generators, crystals, vibration isolation and resonance control, acoustic diffusers and absorbers. Folks, it’s not really rocket science. 🚀 No, speakers are not (rpt not) like musical instruments. You can tune an audio system, you can tune a car but you can’t tuna fish 🐟. Some audiophile tuning devices and tweaks weigh almost as little as a human soul, which has been estimated to weigh about a microgram. Hey, guys! Let’s start a new thread, “How small and insignificant looking or sounding can something be and still influence the sound?”
I am very interested by the power of sounds to heal....I begin to self experiment with sounds effect on myself about a year ago, modifying consciously my listening habits...This is the reason why the Op remark about tuning seems to me very important...It is  not a too much known fact in the general population this tuning problem around the tuning fork...But it is a way more important problem that what seems to meet the eyes...


In a way unbeknownst to us, the frequencies we lives in affect us in some direction that we had choosen or not...Music is a question of moods and personal taste only up to a point...Metaphorically speaking, but science someday will meet poetry, it is frequencies, these we created and entertained and those others we do not, that pilot our souls ...

Thanks to the OP for proposing this important tuning problem...And he is right, all tweaks or room controls etc will not correct this basic social, cultural, fact affecting not only music but souls...
atdavid
Your ignorance is showing GK. Please pull up your pants. No one wants to see that.

>>>>Actually I think you probably do. 👀 Can I suggest cooling off in a nice long cold shower?
Responses = 147       Resolutions = 0       Wasted keystrokes = countless                                    Theory Envy = off the charts(my theory’s longer than your theory....nah, nahnah, nah, nah)
Your ignorance is showing GK. Please pull up your pants. No one wants to see that.
I give you due credit atdavid for throwing everything but the kitchen sink at my theory. Unfortunately, in spite of all your quibbling and argumentativeness (if that is even a word) the scattered light problems persist in most if not all CD players - most likely because - like you - the designers are unaware of the problem or else swept it under the rug. 🧹

”Where is the data?”  That’s funny. Where is the experiment?
  • Obfuscation and Deflection: -- I -- never said only high end CD players correct errors. ALL CD players, even $10 ones correct errors, even really bad errors.   I said that high end players, will reclock the output data to remove all jitter. That does not mean Your product improves jitter at all. If it did, you could test it and show it does.
  • -- YOU claimed --- that the color black does not absorb IR. YOU were shown to be wrong. Typical black pigmentation is very good at absorbing the near infrared of an IR laser. I posted links before. Your claim about no "color" absorbing IR is again obfuscation and deflection because "color" has no meaning in IR. By far the most common black pigment for plastics is Carbon Black, which absorbs as well at 780nm as in the visible range.
  • -- I -- never said that the insides of CD players are non reflective. -- I -- said the inside of the photo-detector assembly is non reflective to reject non-incident light. The photo detector also does have an IR pass filter. It is cheap because of the exceptionally high volume, but it is designed properly.
  • As above, the plastics are black, and use carbon black, which absorbs 780nm just fine. Your comment about 3 * 10^15 photons is just obfuscation and deflection. It is a meaningless number meant to confuse people.
  • You made a claim that error correction is not able to deal with scattered light. If you had any proof of this, you would show changes in data errors. You have not. WHY?. The reason for them is meaningless, whether scattered light, vibration,etc. The pits are 500nm * 1um. This is not considered "nano" scale, which typically is <100nm. These on area are 50 times bigger than "nanoscale". Given $10-20 CD rom readers are able to read at 16-52x data rates with relatively low errors, I would say a CD player handles "vibration" just fine. Those were in laptops with someone banging away at the keys, and they still managed to extract data, audio, and movies. BUT ... you could always support your claim with easy to generate data. Where is your data GK?

  • Post removed 
    @atdavid, that was a long list of “holes.” Unfortunately, there are some serious holes in your so-called holes. Especially the ones you seem to value the most. At least you avoided your objection, “why don’t you just go to streaming?” I guess you must have changed your mind about that one. 😛

    1. If “high quality” CD players read until correct that must mean all other non-“high quality” players have problems reading the CDs. if your claim is even true, which I tend to doubt. If it is true that high quality CD players have solutions for incorrect reading of the CD why is there never any discussion of scattered laser light issues in CD players? Is it because everyone accepts on blind faith that CDs are perfect sound forever? 😳

    2. The insides of the CD players are not non-reflective. Even if the insides are painted black and the tray is black it doesn’t absorb infrared light. The color black especially if shiny is not very good at absorbing visible light either. No color is good at absorbing invisible infrared light. We’ve already been over that.

    3. Scattered light comes out of the CD at many different angles, it even comes out through the outer edge, which is why greening the outer edge has some audible effect, due to absorption of the visible red part. Since the interior of the transport cannot absorb the scattered light, the interior of the transport lights up like a Christmas tree. Since it’s filled with light obviously some of that light gets into the detector. The detector is just some cheap hunk of junk that accepts a range of wavelengths of light. The CD laser emits about 3 x 10^15 photons per second. So there is obviously no deficit of scattered photons inside the transport.

    4. As I’ve already pointed out the Reed Solomon error detection/correction codes are not able to deal with the scattered light problem. If they could then the humble Green Pen wouldn’t be audible. Nor would New Dark Matter. The CD laser servo feedback system likewise is incapable of keeping the nanoscale laser beam on the nanoscale data spiral on the CD. That’s why vibration is such a big problem for CD players and why vibration isolation and damping both the CD and transport motor are necessary for best results.
    At David, "You have to admit there is a big difference from "heard a difference" and "thought I heard a difference", with the latter being the case 99% of the time on these forums. "

    ***And you are omniscient and know this to be true***
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    AtDavid’s lines above are what every "skeptical" post on these "controversial" topics is saying--my theory (beliefs in my head) are correct, and I don’t believe your evidence.

    AtDavid,
    Scientists may not accept a theory until they collect data and analyze it.  But you are better--you reject a theory with no data.


    of course ive done this stuff with every reasonable input/ freq train-modulation-phase shift-dual beat etc-audio/direct-needle brain pulse, etc but thats the feedback part ad a doctoral thesis itself
    Humidity will have a bigger effect. This bias is why anyone who researches audible

    yes and airdensity/press ie altitude.
    maybe ill market mounitn speakers that can acoustic impedance couple the thin air better....
    ps we ran all jan/mil acoustic at Std temp/press 1000mb@72deg 30% non turblent laminar from above .
    Clearthink,
    Once again, I will remind you that this is a libellous statement. Think what you want, but when you libel someone online, you can be legally responsible. You seem to like to make these claims. One day it will catch up to you. Keep in mind if sued, you would need to prove I used Wikipedia. Your personal attacks with 0, and I do mean 0 content related to my posts are of no value.

    clearthink993 posts12-09-2019 4:03pm
    The problem is that when presented with a theory your usual and customary practice is to apply a fact or two derived from Wikipedia and then use that to dismiss, dispel, or "disprove" the concept that you cannot grasp, comprehend, or that conflicts with your belief system which is, again, based on Wikipedia it is all part of you're compelling need to be seen as authoritative, expert, and intellectual.

    berner99,

    There are any number of things that very large numbers of people believe in that simply are not true. I would be here probably all night making up a list of them, and we are not talking 1 or 2 people, we are talking millions (or more).

    You have to admit there is a big difference from "heard a difference" and "thought I heard a difference", with the latter being the case 99% of the time on these forums. Anyone who thinks they are immune to bias w.r.t what they are hearing is fooling only themselves. Our memory for subtle audio differences is exceptionally poor. Mood alone, changes in sitting position, etc. will have bigger impacts than many things discussed. Humidity will have a bigger effect. This bias is why anyone who researches audible effects uses at a minimum blind testing and preferably double blind testing. Even ad-hoc blind tests can show a perceived difference really was not there.


    Quoting Max Planck w.r.t. what is discussed here is akin to giving validity to those who promote the earth being flat. A scientist will listen to anecdotal evidence to provide inspiration, but, and a big but, they don't accept it as factual until tested, as above, with proper tests. Then they will try to isolate causes and effects.  You will note the loudest proponents of "questionable" sonic methods are the ones most against any formal testing. Why is that? What are they afraid of (other than being wrong)?

    berner9922 posts12-09-2019 2:59pmA large number of posts on many threads boil down to:  

    i have theory that says what you hear isn’t possible (by the stated mechanism) so you must be wrong, or deluded.

    Certainly people can want to believe things, and certainly their are dishonest people, but if a large number of people hear a difference it seems reasonable that it might be worth checking out.  Unless of course you are posting for other reasons.

    and David and C3 (if he’s posting on this thread) you both need to reread that quote by the physicist in the other thread.  It was a max Planck quote about how new beliefs spread (and don’t)

    "Well, how does one bring it into tune??"

    you tune it

    "everything affects everything else" mg

    you guys should try doing stuff once in a while :)

    For those who have already converted to Low Mass Tunable systems, you’re so far ahead of the curve it does make these threads a little odd if not hilarious.

    http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/


    continued from previous
    mine had to be altered from the titanium plate thats now there. the repolarizing NA in the diffusion zone is tricky.
    I rebuilt a 32 ch network analyzer added 1meg:1 gain op amps differential inputs. 16 +/_ chs.this can sense the repolarization of the Na and Ca charge from eack nerve pulse-to put it bascic.  the balance at fing the virtual zero is hard though. but it allows mt to quantify 16 different cross sections and effects of subconcious  and cons inputs. also plotting the ELF freqs of restful brain like a few HZ   yea we all love low bsss notes thats why ive done this since the 70 at Govt companies for military "mind control" evel went on LSD snd sleep tests at mit and new york institute of tech and its quack ciro school.     the writing is messed up by my brain injury and induced parkinscisom. ive tried to build new neurotransmitters but doesent work too well so sometimes i go to voice recongitonn typing.
    Ive got published works in the materials science review like 1998. presented in Boston. 
    GK Kenworth sized holes:
    • Virtually no visible light in the IR laser in a CD player.
    • The detector is a focused assembly. That means that "scattered" light predominantly does not reach the detector as it is off-angle and outside the field of view.
    • The interior of the optical receptor is non-reflective to prevent "scattered" light from reaching the photo receptor.
    • The receptor has an IR pass filter so that visible light is greatly attenuated.
    • The optical assembly is simple and optimized for 780nm, so visible will be less focused.
    • The error rates for CD are well known and there is a specific standard for production. The first level errors except for a significantly damaged disk are easily fixed with error correction codes, essentially redundant data.  Unfixable C2 errors on a production CD are typically 0. That means that when you open up that CD, you are going to get perfect data.
    • There are many tools available that are very inexpensive that can show C1, C2 and unfixable C2 errors. That means you could easily prove your product has any audible benefit by showing it reduces unfixable C2 errors.
    • Jitter measurement is easy. If your product works, you could show how it reduces jitter.
    • We have 50X and higher CD readers that manage to work. The 1X of audio .... is exceedingly simple.
    • High quality players will reclock the data to eliminate jitter and anything your claimed products will do.


    Cleeds, nothink, rodman, even GK, all playing from the same anti-science playbook, attack the poster, not the post. Why? Because you can’t. You can’t because you don’t even understand the posts. You just ra-ra around anything that says what you want to believe because it makes you feel safe. I would love to see you try to actually refute the content of my posts. I could use the laugh!

    It is just downright pathetic that you need to claim that anyone more knowledgeable than you must be quoting Wikipedia (and yet you can't show where I have quoted Wikipedia ... and the odd time I do, I will say that I am).