Has anyone had experiences good or bad with speaker isolation or isolation in general ?

hi everyone,

Once you have isolated your loudspeakers from the environment , that i believer is a large chunk of the seismic vibration  problem solved,
You need to stop the energy from your speakers going threw the floor and surrounding services back up into your speakers and from entering your rack/ electronics distorting the audio signal, Since i have isolated my speakers with Townsend Seismic Podiums i am now tweaking my system to levels i never new was possible ,
 if you have invested more into your set up than myself then i feel the benefits will be greater,

I am now looking to treat all the unwanted vibrations in my system, i believe starting from the speaker terminals back threw every connection point to my wall plug socket will also help three up the signal, by reducing all the unwanted vibrations caused by the equipment themselves, Geof is the man to help achieve this goal.. 

Years ago in the UK, Mana sound frames gained a huge following due to there isolation techniques, back then they used damped glass with upside down spikes at all contact points,
Many Linn LP12 owners would use the Mana Wall shelf to isolate there LP12, as this was suggested by dealers and Mana to be the very best way to isolate the TT,
The way Mana suggested isolating your speakers was a wood type platform with a metal frame all securely connected by spikes , so the speaker base platforms were actually spiked into your wooden suspended floor or carpet / concrete floor..
The main Mana equipment rack was also spiked into the floor with damped glass shelves resting on upside down spikes with a metal frame,
Another product from Mana was the sound base, which was a big wooden type platform sitting on upside down spikes all metal frame with spikes into the floor, the idea was you then placed your shelved rack on top to give an added level of isolation,
Based on the knowledge of seismic vibrations, was Manas use of spikes not effective and did many people then spend money on a floored design, even the advised wall mounted spiked TT shelf does not seem such a good idea from the findings of Max Townshend and Geoff Kait,
to me seismic isolation to be effective you should use a spring type product maybe in correspondence with a ball bearing type product,
I now believe spiking any kind of hifi is a bad thing as they say what goes down must goes up, or what goes up most come down, acoustically isolating the equipment  is the way to go, does anyone have a different opinion please?
I am basing my opinion on the youtube video spikes verses pods and some of the very interesting knowledge of Geoff Kait.

Mains wrote,

"I am now experimenting with Shun Mook Mpingo Discs in various places, which i am enjoying and hearing different effects, thanks for making me aware of these, When i remove the mpingo discs i can say with certainty i prefer the sound with them included in the system, Its quite difficult to explain the improvements they bring, if pushed i would say realism across the board ie bass is better, instruments are clearly defined and vocals gain a human like texture, im not saying the sytem is lacking without the mpingo discs, but definitely improves with them,"

Yup, that pretty much sums up my experience with the Mpingo discs, especially the part about the more human sounding voices. I still remember when the two Shun Mook dudes walked into the room at CES 20 years ago in the Mapleshade room where my knock off of their Mpingo disc was sitting right there on the floor. My heart was in my throat but I'm pretty sure they didn't notice it was a knock off. Lol And knocking them off is no mean feat. If you look closely you can see a small circular area on one side of the Mpingo disc that is a slightly different color from the rest of the wood. That is apparently where a crystal is buried inside, although I've never opened one up to confirm this. 

Having tried every conceivable spike/footer/platform combination I have at this point satisfied my own ears that speakers should be isolated from the floor.  A speaker sounds best when it can "float" so that the cabinet can move in response to the movement of the drivers ("equal and opposite reaction.....").  The two product lines that reflect this relatively recent viewpoint are the expensive loudspeaker platforms from Townshend Audio, and the much more reasonable "Gaia" footers from Isoacoustics.  The view that speaker cabinets should be spiked to the floor so the cabinet is stationary and resonances are drained is simply obsolete.  On both concrete and wood floors, with and without carpet, my Merlin VSM's for example sound much more open and articulate on the "floating" Gaia footers than on the Merlin Z-feet or any other spikes.  I had Soundocity make me outriggers (for stability) with threaded holes so I can attach the Gaia footers instead of spikes.   See:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/isoacoustics-gaia-isolation-pucks#YTiJfV2Yw8kssDGk.97

http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-i/

hi geoff,
I have been reading a lot about the Mpingo disc thanks to you suggesting them,
They recommend place one badge towards the wall socket dot facing down at 6 o'clock onto the plug that feeds your mains block, and try this at every connection point threw out your system, ie rca input rca output , speaker terminals amplifier terminals, 
I am also when funds permit going to place the mpingo discs on top of my equipment and bass box to my sound-lab dynastats,
Its getting expensive but worth every penny to my ears, 
Can you please recommend to me the products that can be placed on top of the cables at roughly the same places as the discs,that you sell, maybe i can then place the mpingo discs on top of the equipment to see if the results are better, or i wonder if i should keep with the mpingos threw out the system, if i win the lottery i would like to use all the Shun Mook products as they are working in my system, have you any experience with the rest of the Shun Mook range please,all your help is very much appreciated 

@cellcbern how stable are those iso pucks on carpet? Would I need to have a spiked platform to put my speakers on if I fitted them with the iso pucks? They’re still expensive, but..

Never you mind. I just looked at their web page. They sell cups with little spikes on them. 

Mains,

After, I stabilize my rack, I think my best approach is to isolate my speakers and especially my subs in the beginning. Then, go ahead and better isolate my equipment.

I had checked out the Townsend website due to this post, and sent an email seeking equipment recommendations. I'm waiting to hear back. Checking out the products, I can't use the podiums due to proximity of other equipment, but the Bars would work for my subs. An additional thought would be to put the Bars under my existing Symposium isolation platforms that the subs currently sit on. From your experience with the product, do you think this application of the Bars would be my best starting point?

BTW - I will be adding to my rack, side boards at the rear with a 1" dowel running across the backside of the rack at the top. From the dowel will hang strings attached to my components' ICs and power cords for the purpose of relieving strain due to the weight of these cables on the connectors. This was recommended to me by Bill at Shun Mook, and the side boards will also help to make my rack more rigid.
Kenny

to toddverrone:

With a heavy speaker like my Merlins (85 lbs. ea.) they are rock solid stable on carpet.  With a much lighter speaker I don't know.  However the rubber base of the Gaia prevents the footer from sliding so I use corian boards with large felt discs on the bottom on my wood floor just so I can slide them around.  On carpet, a wood, corian, marble, glass, granite, etc. board by itself would provide an even surface and allow you to slide the speakers.  The photo of the Kef Blades at the Isoacoustics website, for example, shows a glass or acrylic board between the Gaia footers and the carpet:

http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/



 

kennythekey,

please email me on johnhannant2016@hotmail.com i will help you sought your subs out kind regards john

hi todveronne,

Before you spend any money try the Townshend audio speaker bars they retail for around 1000gbp but can be found cheaper from where i purchased my Townshend Podiums regards john

Mains

@geoffkait - Can you please recommend to me the products that can be placed on top of the cables at roughly the same places as the discs,that you sell, maybe i can then place the mpingo discs on top of the equipment to see if the results are better, or i wonder if i should keep with the mpingos threw out the system, if i win the lottery i would like to use all the Shun Mook products as they are working in my system, have you any experience with the rest of the Shun Mook range please,all your help is very much appreciated.

Geez, you aren’t asking for much. 😛 I have 30 products these days. I recommend ALL of them. I prefer not to get into games like is thing better than that thing as that can serve no real purpose.

hi geoff,
I completely understand, i will stay with the mpingo discs they seem to be doing a good job, they have found a permanent place in my system along with the Townshend seismic isolation products,
The ball bearings have replaced the RDC cones on the Townshend Seismic Platforms, more air detail resolution, since including the podiums my system is so much more transparent to tweaks and changes 
The sound quality is exceptional for quite a modestly priced system, proper speaker isolation has really put me on a path to great things, 
My advice is try the Townshend Podiums or the cheaper adjustable speaker bars, if your speakers are spiked your are not getting anywhere near the best out of your system 
In fact you are introducing vibrations threw the floor, walls, rack into your electronics and back into the speakers themselves adding Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums is a real ear opener its far from subtle audition a pair to hear what your system is capable of.

Almost all of the current vibration isolation devices, yes, including mine (the exception is the Minus K platform that gets down to sub Hertz performance). By performance I refer to the device’s resonant frequency under load. But wait! Resonant frequency is not where isolation occurs, it’s where the low pass filter characteristic starts. The real point where isolation occurs, or I should say STARTS TO OCCUR, for a particular direction is actually around 2 times the Fr. Thus for an iso device with Fr of 3Hz the isolation begins at around 6Hz. And even then the percentage of isolation effectiveness is quite low at 6Hz, maybe around 10% and at 10Hz maybe 30%. Robust isolation won’t occur until at least 20Hz, where effectiveness is around 95%. Above 20Hz effectiveness approaches 100% as frequency rises.

So, here’s the problem with almost all of the current batch of iso devices - they don’t go low enough to actually deal with much of the seismic energy produced by the Earth crust motion, traffic, subways, wind and other things which lies in the region 0 to 10Hz. And the main reason why the Fr of these iso devices cannot get down below 3Hz is because so many springs are required for stability. The spring rate for the device is calculated by multiplying the spring rate of one spring by the number of (steel or air spring) springs required, which is usually 3 or 4. The Fr of the device is the square root of the total Spring Rate divided by the total mass on the springs including any ballast (e.g., Vibraplane) and mass of top plate.

The Minus K achieves a sub Hertz Fr because it’s a much more complicated design (negative stiffness) than a relatively simple mass on spring like just about every other platform or stand. My Nimbus Sub Hertz platform of yore, sorry no longer available, achieved 0.5 Hz Fr in some directions because it used a single air spring. This single air spring design is almost impossible to construct because a single air spring is very floppy, so it’s like trying to balance yourself on a rubber pole. And it was limited to how much load it could isolate. But it could easily isolate about 35 lb. With sub Hetz performance now you’re talking some serious isolation effectiveness compared to the 3 Hz crowd. As I recall my spring based Promethean Base and the current mini Isolators can achieve around 2 Hz performance if you play your cards right. And my Nirvana dual layer design can get very close to sub Hertz performance, using two stages of heavy masses and springs.

@geoffkait of course another solution for proper seismic isolation is an active platform. These solutions offer 90% at 3Hz and 99% at 10Hz which is enough to make a meaningful difference in the range of interest. Of course they are a little expensive but dealing with this range (say 2-20Hz) is going to cost.

Illustrative data sheet and performance
http://www.herzan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/TS-Series-Data-Sheet.pdf

Folkfreak wrote,

"Of course they are a little more expensive."

I’d opine beyond the means of most people, in particular most people participating on this thread. Of course you can obtain Halcyonics or TLC or other expensive devices, even the Vibraplane and Minus K are not exactly inexpensive, but if you have many components to isolate one trusts you have really deep pockets for all active devices. Obviously for speakers the problem is a little, well, quite a bit different since the speakers only go down to what, 35Hz - if you’re lucky. 

Yes expensive. But buying used you can get them for the price of a minus-k and they come up regularly from instrument sellers on eBay

 I'd argue that anyone with a $10k plus vinyl rig should definitely invest and some would suggest that a $5k turntable on such a platform can outperform a $20k one without it and my experience says that could well be true

Thank you Geof again for explaining this hole isolation problem every audiophile is having to deal with,
I am happy with the spring type speaker isolation platform but i am considering placing a ball bearing type platform on top,
The product is a three piece wood type materiel sandwich,
I would place the bottom slice on top of the podium roughly the same size as podium platform , Then you place the middle slice with cones at the bottom and discs cut out with balls in on top , so when you add the top layer the balls and cut out discs line up creating circular bearing movement,
With the podiums using there spring type system i believe this could add further isolation so increasing again sound quality, the bearing product is a cheaper type Symposium type platform.
I am finding the mpingo discs extremely effective, i am going to order some of your crystals that rest on the rca connectors where i cannot put mpingo discs 
Thanks for every piece of information you have posted on my discussion,
Am i correct in thinking the mpingo discs are dealing with airborne and internal equipment born vibrations,
My aim is to reduce all vibrations that are in my system done to next to zero if possible,
This isolation journey started for me years ago with the SR migs , then found i worked my way up to stillpoints which if i can remember so much has been and gone i got great results but the prices were high and have just gone up again,
If money was not a problem i believe Seismic Podiums with stillpoints would be a very effective isolation pairing,
With the odd mpingo disc here and there, maybe i should remain happy with the springs and get a loan for the stillpoints sounds like a joke but also could be the ideal solution any opinions or ideas anyone on the springs with stillpoints?

Folkfreak, how does the Herzan deal with turntables since it’s a six degree of freedom platform? Wouldn’t the twist direction isolation interfere with the spinning turntable platter? As I recall the Minus K disengages the twist rotation isolation to be able to accommodate turntables, not sure if that’s really true but I think it probably is. And everything really should be isolated, the CD player, the amplifiers, the preamps, the DACs, everything!

@geoffkait not sure I understand your question? If there's rotational energy being propagated into the platform the turntable sits on isn't that a bad thing? Don't most competent turntable designs isolate the platter from the motor anyway (in my case decoupled via a magnetic drive linkage). Finally since the rotational energy is at .55 to .75 Hz (33-45rpm) then the Herzan will not do anything about it anyway. Having said all of that my turntable does run quieter (i.e. I hear less motor noise) since installing the platform so maybe the Herzan is actually helping by cancelling out motor noise transmitted into the stand (even if it was not going into the platter) -- who knows 😏

Your point on isolating everything is well taken, and very well heeled Asian audiophiles have been known to employ multiple Herzan type platforms just for this

@geoffkait I just added a picture to my virtual system that shows the effect of running the motor. Clearly it is generating noise but most is cancelled by the isolation. Interestingly there is some "digital" residual noise albeit at a low level

interesting stuff
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5707#&gid=1&pid=31

Looks like vertical and two horizontal directions in the graphs. Very interesting. Especially with TT on and no isolation. Are there similar graphs for the 3 rotational directions? Thanks in advance.

The system actually works via 8 accelerometers (4 horizontal and 4 vertical). Data from all is accessible if you have an oscilloscope handy. The rotational forces being addressed through the combination of accelerometers I presume 

so if anyone in the Portland area wants to bring their scope round ...

more details here
http://www.herzan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Manual-TS-150_-TS-140_-TS-300LP.pdf

Hmmmm...why so many accelerometers? And why only H and V accelerometers? I think it’s so they can use the differences between two or more vertical accelerometers placed in different locations across the platform - for example, to determine velocities due to type 1 bending forces ("Roll"). The center of the top plate would remain relatively stationary for that rotational direction. Ditto for the horizontal accelerometers and the other 2 rotational directions, "Rock" and "Twist." Come on baaby, let’s dooo the twist!🎷

@geoffkait the detailed explanation of why 8 accelerometers is in this paper http://www.herzan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/White-Paper-A-dynamic-antivibration-system.pdf

Weber’s bar was a very large aluminum bar with a large number of piezoelectric detectors attached to the bar allow for six degrees of isolation as well as the ability to determine the direction from whence the gravity waves emanated. Interesting that a gravity wave the amplitude of which is only the diameter of an atomic nucleus was thought by Weber to be able to bend an aluminum bar 6 feet by 3 feet in dimension, no? If there had been more advanced isolation techniques in the 60s his bar would've probably worked.

Wiki
A Weber bar is a device used in the detection of gravitational waves first devised and constructed by physicist Joseph Weber at the University of Maryland. The device consisted of multiple aluminium cylinders, 2 meters in length and 1 meter in diameter, antennae for detecting gravitational waves.[1]

Around 1968, Weber collected what he concluded to be "good evidence"[1] of the theorized phenomenon. However, his experiments were duplicated many times, always with a null result.

Such experiments conducted by Joseph Weber were very controversial, and his positive results with the apparatus, in particular his claim to have detected gravitational waves from SN1987A in 1987, were widely discredited. Criticisms of the study have focused on Weber’s data analysis and his incomplete definitions of what strength vibration would signify a passing gravitational wave.

Weber’s first "Gravitational Wave Antenna" was on display in the Smithsonian Institution as part of "Einstein: a Centenary Exhibit" from March 1979 to March 1980.[2] A second is on display at the LIGO Hanford Observatory.[3]

cheerios

@kosst_amojan  Using spikes is not a one directional vibration reducing tool.  Just as vibrations go down the spike to the floor underneath, they come right back up again.  What's that getting you?  Your post also states that the decoupled speaker is "floating".  In my particular case, my stereo room is carpet+pad over concrete slab.  My speaker spikes are resting in a Herbie's Audio Lab cone/spike decoupling gliders, which settle into the carpet and pad quite nicely due to the weight of the speakers themselves.  There is no "floating" happening.  Regardless, the proof in this hobby is always in the listening.  The improved clarity using this decoupling method is immediate and consistent.  The comparison between coupling and decoupling yields results constantly favoring the decoupling.  

After realizing this improvement I proceeded to decouple both subwoofers using a larger decoupling device sourced from Herbie. Now all of the vibrations of the speakers and subs are not being transmitted into the component rack causing them to vibrate right along with the music.

If there is one lesson I've learned in all these many years, it is that vibration and resonance are the enemy of your stereo components.  This would help account for the considerable money audiophiles spend on their racks and component vibration/resonance damping tweaks. 

Lastly, you state "A floating floor is a less than ideal platform upon which to place a stereo. " Now that floating floor must be quite something.  Maglev technology on a grandiose scale perhaps?  That's something I would love to behold. And who says there are LAWS of physics?

For the believers that spiking your loudspeakers is best for performance please check the Max Townshend you tube video spikes v pods/podiums, you will without doubt decide to ditch them spikes, as been pointed out many times,
the benefits of breaking the acoustic connection between speaker and floor/room is something everybody should experience,
if you are interested in gaining better sound quality from your system isolation is a great place to start,
i found placing my speakers on the Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums gave me the biggest upgrade in sound quality i have ever experienced,
i have purchased Seismic Isolation Platforms for my electronics to increase the performance to a higher level,
I am now experimenting with Shun Mook mpingo discs and enjoying the results that they bring,
But i believe the first place to start with any form of isolation is with the speakers and decoupling or breaking the acoustic connection between speaker and floor/room is the best answer from my own experience.

Funny you should say that. Because if you had isolated your electronics FIRST rather than the speakers, isolating the speakers would not have provided much of an improvement. Why? Because the *lowest frequency* produced by the speaker cabinets that could be transmitted via the floor to the electronics is above where the effectiveness of isolation for the iso stands under the electronics is achieves 99%. AND because you are isolating the electronics from floor borne seismic vibrations, you know, the ones with frequencies way below whatever the speaker is producing.

Then why do these British speakers that have thin walls sound so good ?
And yes, Herbie’s Gliders are fantastic .

schubert
Then why do these British speakers that have thin walls sound so good?

nobody said they don’t sound good. But they would sound even better isolated. And they would sound better still if all the electronics were isolated. Have you not been paying attention?

"Everything is relative." A. Einstein

Isolation works to reduce parasitic sympathetic vibrations from floor and walls. For TT and tubes this also helps reduce feedback from floor/wall vibration. Other electronics are not sensitive enough microphonically and do not benefit except some equipment might last longer in an environment with less vibration...

No brainer.

Thin wall speakers can sound good but the thin walls add coloration and often change the timbre of the mid range. In principal this is bad design, however, some really like the sound. Thin wall cheap cabinets are lighter and allow for reduced shipping packaging and lower shipping costs which is of huge benefit to the manufacturer/retailer - and if with some hand waving marketing hype the listeners can be convinced that light weight is technically beneficial (just like a TT) then you can easily understand why there are thin walled light weight designs...

geoff, Not to you .

shadorne
Isolation works to reduce parasitic sympathetic vibrations from floor and walls. For TT this also helps reduce feedback to the cartridge from floor/wall vibration. Other electronics are not microphonic and do not benefit except equipmemt might last longer in an environment with less vibration...

No brainer.

Oh, brother!

@geoffkait   

Stalking again I see!

Shadorne, Huh? I'm just responding to your ridiculous statement. That's all. 

The less is best crowd in England theory is based upon research done at
The Mecca of Physics labs at Cambridge University .
It cost more to adhere to the tiny tolerances coming from that research ..

hi Geoff,
I highly respect your opinions and fact based knowledge, i did start to isolate my equipment first, 
I tried Stillpoint ultra ss under my lector cdp707 and psu7 and allegri passive pre and ultra 5s under my amplifiers which were a pair of krell fpb 450mcx, back then,
I found they changed the sound which became forward, exciting and dynamic, 
When i weighed up the price i decided the change in sound did not justify the very high price tag,
Then i tried Clearlight Audio RDC cones and bases under my electronics and speakers all for less than 350gbp which for the improvement in sound quality was a bargain,
I got obsessed with trying to get my speakers positioned to sound there best, i had a mid bass hump,
I read the reviews of the Speaker Bars and Seismic Podiums, i became very interested in trying them,
For my sound-lab dynastats i was recommended to audition the Seismic Podiums with blue load springs,
When i heard the benefits the Podiums had i wanted to share my findings with everybody they made the biggest improvement to my system to date,
Speaker placement was now not such an issue,
The sound was similar to the Stillpoints, but much more organic and natural,
The price was much less as well which helps, but it was the performance that really did it,
Geoff if you can imagine the vocals when using the mpingo discs the Podiums bring that flavor but using the discs as well brings it out even more, 
The Stillpoints are probably the best bearing isolation i have tried for my electronics,
Adding the Seismic Isolation Platforms increased the effects of the Sciesmic Podiums, 
I am in the process of selling some old cables and bits and bobs to save up for the Stillpoints,
When i have enough funds i will have the home demo, if they bring what they brought last time to my system, i feel i am in for any incredible experience, 
I will put the Stillpoints between my electronics and Seismic platforms,
At the moment under my cdp i have added Final Lab Durama which has added an increase in detail,
The Stillpoints are better performers than the Duramers so i am expecting something very special but then i always do that is what makes it all so exciting and enjoyable. 

hi,
Please check the Max Townshend video spikes v Podiums on you tube, the Podiums are somewhat of a new product maybe a couple years old now, here in the UK they have received great reviews, the 3 top sounding rooms at the Bristol in the UK all had there speakers on Podiums,
If you try them under your speakers and your system sounds so much better then they have done the same to your system as they did to mine, its difficult to comment on something unless you have tried it, i believe there are other ways to break the acoustic connection between your speakers from the floor/room,but I found the Townshend Seismic Podiums achieved this for me, the newest edition to the Townshend Seismic Isolation technology is the Piano bars, used by owners of Grand pianos, they are also receiving great reviews and magnificent customer feedback, please check out the Townshend Audio website in the UK many vary famous musicians have had them installed.

@kosst_amojan
Religion plays no role in my preference for decoupling. It works in my environment and experience. I adhere to no dogma about it, I just think it is something people should experiment with and let their ears be the judge. My guess is that the creator cares little for my audiophile preferences.

Might "science" be your religion?

If decoupling, and I mean competent decoupling, didn't work and and didn't keep most seismic type vibrations from getting up into the electronics then LIGO - long distance interferometer gravity wave observation - would not have been successful last year in detecting and observing gravity waves. LIGO would have done so a long time ago if it could but the sensitivity of the experiment required development of exceptionally robust isolation systems.

As has been pointed out already, resonant frequencies of cartridge, tonearm, platter of turntables as well as the resonant frequency of the laser assembly (spring mounted!) of CD players and the Fr of all the various electronic elements in components require relatively robust isolation devices, too. That's precisely why audiophiles discover that more expensive iso systems are superior to the usual DIY inner tubes and tennis balls. It's because their resonant frequencies are much lower and therefore more effective at 10-12Hz or wherever.

The word "floating" can be misinterpreted. Floating on a carpet or something that’s not rigid is not the same thing as "floating" on springs or a magnetic levitation system - if one were feasible for speakers which it’s probably NOT. It’s the low pass mechanical filter characteristic of mass-on-spring isolation systems that is responsible for the improvement to the sound. And the fact that the lowest frequency of speaker cabinet vibrations is sufficiently high, let’s say 25Hz or 30 Hz if you’re lucky, that % of transmission to the floor is very very low, based on the resonant frequency Fr of the mass on spring system of the speakers and springs, let's say 3Hz.

Back in the day, in the mid 80's or so, Mod Squad came out with Tip Toes.  For about $7 for a 1.5" metal triangle cone that looked like a large silver Hershey Kiss, I had them under my amp, preamp, TT and speakers.  They were amazing and made such a huge sonic difference.  The threaded ones on my TT were like $10 each.

Then other mnfr's started catching on and things went nuts.  The same cones were now $50-75 each or more.  Were they any better then the $7 ones, Don't know, I never listened to the more expensive ones, but I had my doubts.  I gave them to a friend to try and never got them back.

Nowadays, I have very small light mini-monitors.  Instead of spikes, I went to Lowe's and have hard rubber stoppers under my speakers that cost me like $1.50-$2 each and use 3/speaker.  For heavier larger monitors, I bought larger cork stoppers under each speaker.  I think they sound great lifted up an inch or so off the floor or shelf.  

Spikes may sound better, but for me, it's like splitting hairs.  I'm quite content to spend a few bucks on hard rubber stoppers and it seems to make a huge difference and looks very nice as well.  
Lou

lou_setriodes
"Back in the day, in the mid 80’s or so, Mod Squad came out with Tip Toes. For about $7 for a 1.5" metal triangle cone that looked like a large silver Hershey Kiss, I had them under my amp, preamp, TT and speakers. They were amazing and made such a huge sonic difference. The threaded ones on my TT were like $10 each.

Then other mnfr’s started catching on and things went nuts. The same cones were now $50-75 each or more. Were they any better then the $7 ones, Don’t know, I never listened to the more expensive ones, but I had my doubts. I gave them to a friend to try and never got them back."

This hobby has a lot of examples of evolution of the species. Cones and footers are a good example of how the early Tip Toes evolved into a whole industry. However where we disagree is what you are getting when you purchase footers or cones that are more expensive than the aluminum Tip Toes. Materials, geometry/shape and expense do play a role in the sound. Let me briefly summarize my results with years of experimenting with footers and cones. (Cones should always be points down no matter what anyone says.)

The best cones are made of the hardest materials, aluminum and steel are pretty good, relatively speaking, brass and carbon fiber not so good. The best by far are the NASA grade ceramic Super DH (diamond hardness) cones from Golden Sound. And although they are the same basic size/weight the Super DH Cones are superior sonically to the Jumbo DH Cones, the only difference being shape. The Super DH Cones have a shape very much like a ballistic missile. Even the smaller sizes of DH Cones are superior to almost everything else! Even to the excellent Marigo cones, the ones made with diamond dust, and the $600 Goldmund cones. I did my experiments with a great many types of cones for use with my Nimbus Sub Hertz isolation platform. When used with isolation devices differences in cones are VERY obvious, the better ones being much more open and dynamic and natural. So, the progression of cones from the early days to more modern times is similar to other audio progressions, fuses, cables, isolation, what have you. Thus, it’s a long long way from Tip Toes to Super DH Cones. It’s a long way to Tipperary.

Okay, everyone. Back to real world results, because that's what counts, right?

John, Geoff - Thanks, for chiming in on my rack stabilization post and pointing me to floating isolation. In particuar, the Townshend isolation products.

My isolation bars for my subs arrived yesterday late afternoon, and I quickly set them up under my subs. This is not a review, but just an initial statement and observation. Experimentation and serious listening to follow.

For all you vinyl guys out there with subs, these isolation bars completely cured my oscillation problem caused by mechanical feedback through my floor from my subs, and up through my rack to my turntable. I can turn the sub amps up full volume and kill the rumble filter, and no oscillation. Problem solved. My hat is off to the folks at Townshend Audio.

What I have initially observed regarding sound, is that some level of distortion has vanished, revealing the resolution already inherent in my system. Clarity. It's now become perfectly obvious to me, that proper power management and isolation in the beginning, will reveal truthfully how one's system can sound. Too bad, my approach came ass- backwards, but now I can do better.
Kenny

Bob (gdnrbob) - I didn't want to miss thanking you for your Townshend recommendations as well!
Kenny