Oh, I'm talking specifically about the incredible methods they use at LIGO. I've already got my speakers on spikes, put dynamat in my cabinets, have my turntable on a spring suspended maple platform, heavy tiles on my class d monoblocks and my tube pre on an inner tube suspended platform, soon to be springs.
Has anyone had experiences good or bad with speaker isolation or isolation in general ?
hi
i have been enjoying buying and listening to hifi for some 35 years now and have seen many items come and go.I have also been interested in the audio cable discussions and i agree that cables do make a difference how much of a difference is a very individual, and a system dependent situation. There has been nothing that has got me so excited and improved the sound of my system that has ever made me want to really share it with fellow audiophiles until i started to try various isolation products.With so much choice from affordable to very expensive i found the hole subject very confusing and i did not know where to start. After trying lots of various products all shapes and sizes with very different results i decided to read reviews which is something i do not usually do to get some advise.I read a review on the Townshend audio seismic podiums they are isolation platforms that go under your speakers .This company is very famous for isolation ideas and have been around some 50 years based here in the UK they also had a factory in the USA back in the 1980s. I contacted Nick at Emporium hifi and he agreed to install a pair for me so i could have a listen. My speakers are sound-lab dynastats which i use in quite a small room but with the adjustments give a nice sound. After installing the podiums we both sat down with jaws hitting the floor these podium things completely transformed the sound of my system to absolute perfection. After all this time trying various products under my equipment i have now isolated my speakers and the sound quality is exactly what i believe we all are chasing, my sound-labs are now transparent no more bass problems i have just got one big 3D sound stage the dynastats are now very open with deeper much better bass everything is perfect. I now believe isolating your loudspeakers is the first port of call i was so impressed by the Townshend audio seismic products i now sell them as i have never come across anything that has given my system such a great upgrade , the sound is the same as before but now its just so much better its playing deeper bass but tighter much more resolution and no boom , the midrange is so much more human sounding realistic and spacious with the top end so refined and perfect , is anyone using podiums and had the same experiences i would love to hear from you thank you john
i have been enjoying buying and listening to hifi for some 35 years now and have seen many items come and go.I have also been interested in the audio cable discussions and i agree that cables do make a difference how much of a difference is a very individual, and a system dependent situation. There has been nothing that has got me so excited and improved the sound of my system that has ever made me want to really share it with fellow audiophiles until i started to try various isolation products.With so much choice from affordable to very expensive i found the hole subject very confusing and i did not know where to start. After trying lots of various products all shapes and sizes with very different results i decided to read reviews which is something i do not usually do to get some advise.I read a review on the Townshend audio seismic podiums they are isolation platforms that go under your speakers .This company is very famous for isolation ideas and have been around some 50 years based here in the UK they also had a factory in the USA back in the 1980s. I contacted Nick at Emporium hifi and he agreed to install a pair for me so i could have a listen. My speakers are sound-lab dynastats which i use in quite a small room but with the adjustments give a nice sound. After installing the podiums we both sat down with jaws hitting the floor these podium things completely transformed the sound of my system to absolute perfection. After all this time trying various products under my equipment i have now isolated my speakers and the sound quality is exactly what i believe we all are chasing, my sound-labs are now transparent no more bass problems i have just got one big 3D sound stage the dynastats are now very open with deeper much better bass everything is perfect. I now believe isolating your loudspeakers is the first port of call i was so impressed by the Townshend audio seismic products i now sell them as i have never come across anything that has given my system such a great upgrade , the sound is the same as before but now its just so much better its playing deeper bass but tighter much more resolution and no boom , the midrange is so much more human sounding realistic and spacious with the top end so refined and perfect , is anyone using podiums and had the same experiences i would love to hear from you thank you john
Showing 31 responses by toddverrone
@kavakat damping involves reducing unwanted vibrations using extra mass or squishy materials to absorb them. Isolation involves separating the component in question from vibrating surfaces. Things like platforms with springs or spikes would be isolation, where the foam product you posted or sobothane would be damping. Isolation is important for turntables and tube gear. Maybe disc players too, I don't have much experience there, but I'd imagine the same reasons isolation works for turntables would make it effective for any spinning disc.. damping works well with SS components and some say with speakers too, though I prefer mine spiked. I did add dynamat to the inside of my speaker cabs, though, and that helped clean up the bass. That would be considered damping. |
Question: how unstable are some of these things making your speakers? We have a playroom in our basement and kids have to walk right past my right speaker to get to the playroom. I'd love to experiment with these things, but I can't risk a child bumping into or leaning on the speaker and knocking it over. It would crush my gear rack.. |
Alas, I can't really get much more width than how wide my speakers already are.. again because of the need to keep space for the playroom entrance. Right now my speakers are spiked through carpet into a concrete slab... Anyone have any idea if springs and/or roller bearings would be an improvement over spikes on a concrete slab? |
Thanks guys, great info. Yeah, I'm a budget minded guy and find it hard to spend $400 on roller bearing units when my pair of monoblock amps cost $600.. @folkfreak I find your analysis interesting, however I don't perceive my bass coming from the floor.. i may have to try spring isolation for my speakers. Springs are cheap. However I'd need a spiked podium for the springs to rest on, as I'd imagine a spring/carpet interface is non optimal. Also, here in NW Arkansas, we do not have a problem with squishy ground, heavy industry or large transportation hubs, so I'm a bit more sceptical of the benefits, hence my desire to do it on the cheap. |
My scepticism arises from the huge difference in wavelengths and the law of something returns. bugredmachine - Alas, no AXPONA for me.. I’m saving my weekend trips for climbing, mountain biking and skiing. I’ll happily send a few bucks your way to at least experiment if you’ve extra iso devices. Taking a short break from landscaping, I’ll shoot you a PM when I’m not on my my phone. |
@bdp24 those look very reasonably.. I may try them under my tube amp. Their speaker roller bearings are much more expensive though.. but I guess it is for two sets, so it's not so bad. Still, the spring suspended maple block for my turntable has been a big improvement over suspending it on an inner tube. |
What are people's experiences with carpet? I'm reading that some of you put platforms directly on top of carpet, then put speakers on that while others, myself included, spike through the carpet.. I know what the answer will be: try it yourself and see. Ha! But experiences with the difference between the two would be appreciated |
Geoffkait - I don’t think he fills his bearings. It looks like a typo that should have said ’found’ instead of fill. But man, mains, how about some punctuation? Props to Geoff for even trying to decipher your wall of text and typos... Edit: mains best me to it! I'm guessing English isn't your first language, in which case it's amazing. But breaking up your posts with punctuation will still be nice for my brain. If you’re looking to reduce internal vibrations, you’ll need to look at damping materials like cork or sorbothane. All the spiking and roller bearing ideas address isolating the chassis of the components from outside vibrations. If you want to address internal vibrations you’ll have to look at stuff that suspends circuit boards from the chassis (yet more isolation) or that adds mass or viscosity and therefore reduces vibrations (damping) |
Just saw these lab isolation feet.. they used bearing races. Interesting but expensive! https://www.newport.com/f/vib320-mechanical-vibration-isolators Regarding platforms on carpet: that's what I suspected. To couple to the floor, I don't think you'll need a hole punch for spikes to pierce through carpet.. my spikes have done a fine job getting to the concrete underneath on their own. |
Interesting. I may have to find some short, fat cylindrical springs and listen. Out of curiosity, why do we need them heat treated and cryo’d? Does that increase the linearity of the spring rate? I know it increases strength and durability, but that’s hardly an issue under the TT. I make sure I match up the spring rate and amount of preload to the load. Thanks for the reminder though. |
@bugredmachine thanks for the foam blocks! bugredmachine was kind enough to send me his excess foam/rubber isolation blocks. i finally got around to trying them out with nobody else around to distract me... let me set the stage first: i have my stereo in a somewhat dedicated room in the basement. the floor is a concrete slab covered with a thin carpet pad and a thin, dense commercial carpet. i'm currently using spikes that pierce the carpet and pad, resting on the concrete slab below. the foam/rubber blocks do not seem to be a good match for these conditions. compared to the spikes, the bass became less defined and reduced in power and the whole soundstage collapsed slightly in on itself. my guess is these blocks would sound stellar between my speakers and the pure concrete slab. with the carpet pad, carpet and the foam blocks between my speakers and floor, the speakers weren't planted enough. i'm going to try them between my preamp and its isolation platform next. i currently have wooden feet in that application. oh, almost forgot, i bought some conical compression springs for under my preamp iso plinth, to replace the rubber inner tube that was there. they were $3/piece from grainger. well worth it and, because they are conical, they are very stable, so i did not have to countersink them like i did the regular compression springs i used on my TT iso platform.. here's what i heard after replacing the innertube under the preamp with the springs: the sound cleared up a bit, with slightly better separation between instruments and slightly tighter bass. definitely an improvement, but not nearly as drastic as the improvement i heard when i replaced the innertube under the TT platform with springs. that was a very noticeable improvement. |
@mains I understand the idea of buying well engineered products with a nice finish and I think it’s sweet how we’re all trying to get each other to the best sound possible. Here’s my perspective: I’m a stay at home dad. My wife makes decent money, but we save as much as we can do she can retire and we can get our boys through college. At the moment I can’t justify spending hundreds of dollars on things that I can DIY for much less. Plus, I get a much greater sense of satisfaction using something I’ve built versus something I’ve bought. Let me emphasize these are my values and I judge no one what like else for their decisions on these matters. As for the springs I’ve been using, I calculated the sizes I’d need and the spring rate required to be stable and give me the right amount of preload. It’s not like I was just buying random springs and stuffing them under my turntable. I'm reasonably handy and have worked in various manufacturing jobs before kids, so I pay attention to the important details like structural stability and follow the implications of simple physical laws. With regards to the conical springs: since the seismic waves we’re isolating our equipment from have such small amplitudes, does it matter that the spring rate is not perfectly linear? The amount of travel is so small I’d imagine that the rate is reasonably close to linear in those fractions of a mm. But then again, my imagination has lead me astray before.. |
Kenny - springs are way better at vibration isolation than an inner tube. I recently got rid of the inner tube I had under the maple butcher block my turntable rests on. I bought my springs from Grainger after doing a few simple calculations to determine size and spring rate. Geoff’s springs aren’t that much more expensive and you wouldn’t have to do any calculations. My test for the different means of isolation involved hitting my equipment stand with the arm down on an LP but the turntable not spinning. With the turntable sitting directly on the stand, the hits were audible as loud thumps. With the butcher block on the inner tube, the thumps were diminished in volume. With the butcher block on the springs, I had to increase the force of my hits to even get any thump. So springs may help your problem even if the inner tube did not. |
Obviously, springs were a popular topic. Ha! @kennythekey my first guess would be to rigidly mount it to the wall. But that’s just a guess without having any experience of how wiggly your wall is, etc.. In general, I’ve had the best success with a rigid rack and a floating platform for my turnable on that. But since your floor is bouncy, it would make the most sense to try and tie as rigidly as possible to the wall and use isolation under the rack legs, since that is where the problem is. I think putting foam between the wall coupling would only reduce the effectiveness of tying into the wall. Incidentally, will pieces of 1x2 be strong enough to be effective? Again, not sure how heavy your rack is, so they may be more than adequate. They certainly would not be on mine! |
Kenny - keep us posted on your speaker isolation process. I'd like to isolate my speakers and the pods look great, but kinda expensive relative to my other equipment. I also have the problem of needing stability since one of my speakers sits next to the kids' playroom door. I'm happy you've sorted your sub feedback problem. I recently built spring suspended platforms for my tube pre and turntable and they have definitely made quite an improvement on the cheap. I can only imagine you'll hear improvements with commercially produced products. |
That does sound interesting. I can’t really picture it in my mind’s eye though. @playpen you’ll have to post the pics on your system page and let us know. There’s no way to put pics in these discussions. Also, if you added weight, that would be damping, not isolation. Damping of speakers is a known path to improvement, so I’m very curious to see your methodology. |
@playpen holy crunk, those weights are crazy! That was not what I was picturing. I love that they both look like vessels for consuming delicious alcoholic beverages. What better to tune your system with?! Well done on posting pics. I sure wish this forum let us post them on these threads directly. Are your speakers sitting on DIY is platforms? Because, if they are, I’d love to see a pic showing the whole setup. You seem to be a tinkerer extraordinaire! |